"Let My Women Go"

[Guest Guest]

David Cloud is against women wearing pants altogether' date=' so there is a natural bias toward that direction in the book.[/quote']


SFIC---This is probably why my MIL likes David Cloud. She is ALWAYS in a dress or skirt. She is the wife of a Deacon. She doesn't impose her views on any other Christian woman, though---unless, they ask her for her opinion.

[HappyChristian]

candlelight - I like David Cloud because he tries so hard to be straight with scripture. I suspect that has more to do with your MIL's liking him as well. I am always in a dress or skirt, also, and was before I ever even heard of him. :Green Good for her not to impose her views...and being willing to share when asked is good, too!

[Guest Guest]

candlelight - Cloud's book isn't old' date=' but it isn't brand new, either. As far as your "Laura's Home" girls go - when a woman or a girl walks into a church, it is the responsibility of the members to treat her as Christ would. And the pastor is to preach the Word of God. And Christians are to let the Holy Spirit work. He does, and He does it better than any of us can do...kudos to you and your church for your work with those needy girls!!! [/quote']


I will have to ask my MIL. She can usually put her hand on a book right away. hehe.

We "try" with these girls, women, and their children. :smile My pastor is very gentle with them, as they are VERY wounded. However, he never compromises the truth of the Gospel, either. Thank you, LuAnne. I feel honored to have been chosen to serve these ladies and their children. I know the Lord is going to bless my family in the process. These girls are a huge blessing to me---already. My pastor has cautioned the 5 of us, though, on heartache in the process. I am :pray for the Lord's Will to be done with this ministry. BTW, does anyone have a suggestion on a name for this ministry? We are meeting again, soon---and, my pastor asked us each come up with a name. We will then take a vote. For example, our benevolent fund is called "Compassion Connection." :ideas: anyone---for a name?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Boy, the term legalism is sure tossed around freely...

Just to be clear...David Cloud in no way links pants on women to salvation.

In a roundabout way, David does link pants to salvation. In his article, 'Are Men Lusting After Your Wife And Daughter,' David comes against women wearing pants. At one part in the article, he makes this statement:

"A woman's attitude toward these things reveals her spiritual condition."

This is clearly linking pants on women to their spiritual condition, i.e., saved or lost.

THAT is legalism.

I agree

Nor does he in any way indicate that women should be forced to wear them.

Again, in the same article, Mr Cloud makes the statement:

I contend that the way women dress IS the business of men other than their husbands and fathers. That is forceing his demands on millions of wives and daughters.

Nor does he state that a woman is in poor standing with God if she wears pants.

See answer above concerning spiritual condition.

He presents information that is good to read...whether a person agrees with his conclusions or not is up to the reader.

Unfortunately, his demands that women not wear pants does not line up with the Word of God.

Again - I recommend the book. Regardless of the bias.

We don't.

If the reader is aware that the author is going to conclude that women should wear pants, that is enough "warning."

The reader must also be aware that the author is adding to the Word of God telling women they can't wear pants.

All, and I do mean ALL, people respond according to their bias...even we posters here on OB. We all say that we are obeying scripture...but it is still our bias. That is no reason not to read an author. The whole book - not just excerpts.

David Cloud has enough articles on the net to show someone where he stands concerning this issue.

[Guest Guest]

candlelight - I like David Cloud because he tries so hard to be straight with scripture. I suspect that has more to do with your MIL's liking him as well. I am always in a dress or skirt' date=' also, and was before I ever even heard of him. Good for her not to impose her views...and being willing to share when asked is good, too![/quote']


She actually learned what not to do in the RCC. She was saved when my hubby was 1 years old. He is now 38. She spent many years praying for her husband's salvation before leaving the RCC. They left the RCC when my hubby was 13.

This is where I really think that IFB's need to thank the Lord they are not "trapped" in legalism. I have mentioned this before. The RCC is legalistic. No one knows this better than a "rescued" RCC person. Be thankful for having the truth right at your fingertips. As my MIL says---"Eat the watermellon, and spit out the seeds." Sometimes, that is what we have to do, instead of this ridiculous arguing that is pointless. We are God's kids---afterall. :wave:

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Also, in the article, "Are Men Lusting After Your Wife And Daughter?" Mr Cloud points the finger of blame in adultery to the man because of the way women dress. He then points at the woman as to causing the man to lust after her.

It is funny that he didn't address the fact that some women lust after men who are wearing pants. It is funny he did not say anything about how the man causes women to lust by what he wears.

The truth be known, women do lust after men in jeans and even men's slacks.

It if is wrong for women to wear slacks, then it is just as wrong for a man to wear pants.

[Jerry]

In a roundabout way, David does link pants to salvation. In his article, 'Are Men Lusting After Your Wife And Daughter,' David comes against women wearing pants.

SFIC, quit your slander of everyone who doesn't agree with you. Saying someone's rebellion or acceptance of Biblical principles shows their spiritual condition is not the same thing as stating they are lost or saved based on that issue. You are so determined to paint everyone that disagrees with you as a legalist, that you are willing to read things into people's writings, slander their motives (when only God can judge motives) - and question THEIR spiruality (which you do everytime YOU call them legalists, etc.). Quit the double standards.

[Guest Guest]

Also, in the article, "Are Men Lusting After Your Wife And Daughter?" Mr Cloud points the finger of blame in adultery to the man because of the way women dress. He then points at the woman as to causing the man to lust after her.

It is funny that he didn't address the fact that some women lust after men who are wearing pants. It is funny he did not say anything about how the man causes women to lust by what he wears.

The truth be known, women do lust after men in jeans and even men's slacks.

It if is wrong for women to wear slacks, then it is just as wrong for a man to wear pants.

David Cloud isn't the only one who approaches the issue in this way, but he's definitely a prime example. This is one of the reasons I don't read David Cloud's articles. I just can't stand the way he writes... it makes me pretty upset because I know what kind of influence he's had on people.

[Guest Guest]

I agree with SFIC that it's wrong to test someone's spirituality by the way they dress. It's one thing when a woman is wearing something that even the world knows is sinful, like a miniskirt or a low-cut blouse. It's different when a woman puts on a pair of jeans so she's more comfortable when she's cleaning her house.

[lettheredeemedsayso]

Also, in the article, "Are Men Lusting After Your Wife And Daughter?" Mr Cloud points the finger of blame in adultery to the man because of the way women dress. He then points at the woman as to causing the man to lust after her.

It is funny that he didn't address the fact that some women lust after men who are wearing pants. It is funny he did not say anything about how the man causes women to lust by what he wears.

The truth be known, women do lust after men in jeans and even men's slacks.

It if is wrong for women to wear slacks, then it is just as wrong for a man to wear pants.

What ever the situation, it is a heart issue. When we dress in a way that is not pleasing to Jesus then we err. Our actions say much more than our word ever could.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

His influence as to dress is obvious, KJB.

But, David does have many good articles which I wholeheartedly agree with. But he is very legalistic in regards to women's dress.

He has the right to tell men it is his business how their wives dress? Give me a break.

David does better when he preaches the Word of God instead of his opinion.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

What ever the situation, it is a heart issue. When we dress in a way that is not pleasing to Jesus then we err. Our actions say much more than our word ever could.

I agree. It is a heart issue.

But for a preacher to try to put someone on a guilt trip because he doesn't approve of certain things is wrong if it doesn't line up with the Word of God. David's messages on women in pants are so far from lining up with God's Word it is pathetic.

It is legalistic to add stipulations try to say women can't wear pants. Do a search through David's articles and you will be surprised that he nowhere speaks of women lusting after a man because of his clothing.

So the conclusion can only be that David does not believe it is wrong for women to lust, or that they cannot lust. Either that, or it is ok for men to wear clothing that brings women's attention to him, but women are not to dress in the same way.

Looks a little one-sided if you ask me.

Jerry,

Stop with your attacking me just because I pointed out the truth concerning David Cloud's legalistc stance on dress on women. I did not slander David Cloud at all. I told the truth.

[Pastorj]

SFIC,

You did not just tell the truth. You falsely interpreted David Cloud's statements. He does not associate pants with Salvation which is what you said. He states that pants show a persons spirituality.

Ed

[Pastor Matt]

David does better when he preaches the Word of God instead of his opinion.

That can be said about anybody, you and me.

Side Note: I do think your attitude does need to change a bit. Even on issues that I agree with you on, I cringe on how you handle other folks. Many times you come across as a dictator in how you handle yourself. I see your attitude toward others that disagree with you the same as I see in leaders of legalistic churches. I do not think that you mean to come across this way, but others do take it that way.

[HappyChristian]

it makes me pretty upset because I know what kind of influence he's had on people.

Umm, he's had a tremendously good influence on a lot of people. You know what kind of influence? You don't know anything of the kind. You think it - vastly different from actual knowledge!

Whew - Jerry, you started a firestorm asking about his book! I will reiterate that he doesn't tie pants on women to salvation...I've read the whole book, so I know. Yes, SFIC, women do lust after men nowadays. And there's a whole host of reasons for that...it might make an interesting new thread.

I think it's interesting, SFIC, that you are willing to take a stand against a book you haven't even read...and then you defend Cloud. Confusing.

Yes - it is a heart issue, and Cloud brings that out in his book. I really think it's interesting how quickly "legalism" is accused because someone believes that a woman shouldn't wear pants. As I stated in a previous post, there are principles other than modesty at play. Read the book by David Kidd. It's really a good one. It might surprise some of you... :Green

(thanks, Pastorj and BroMatt!)