Members RSS Robot Posted April 13, 2017 Members Share Posted April 13, 2017 Biblical Shallowness in the Churches There is a frightful lack of biblical knowledge among members of the average Independent Baptist church, in my experience. Many pastors have admitted to me that the majority of their people are not serious Bible students. It is impossible to understand the Bible properly and grow in understanding of it effectively without training in such things as principles of interpretation, Bible history and geography, Bible culture, and theology or Bible doctrine, yet most members of Independent Baptist churches are grossly lacking in such things. Most are like a church member I talked with recently who told me that his Bible reading is “hit and miss” and that he had no Bible dictionary, concordance, or commentary, had never learned to use such tools, and knew little to nothing... Read More View the full article Pastor Scott Markle and Alan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted April 13, 2017 Members Share Posted April 13, 2017 Good article. David Cloud wrote, "This preacher said further:“There is abysmal ignorance concerning the doctrine of Christ, concerning the doctrines of justification, sanctification, and glorification. One of our major problems is that expository preaching is not politically correct in fundamental churches. For a pastor to preach through a book of the Bible is a rare thing. Most of the men I know don't do that because it doesn’t draw big crowds and they like fireworks in the pulpit or fairy tales.”Another man commented:“I agree about the importance of the study of Bible prophecy. Unfortunately, fundamental Baptist preachers seem very reluctant to delve into prophecy. I think it might be because most preachers have not studied much beyond the first three chapters of Revelation. I don’t think I have ever heard a really solid message from an IFB preacher from the mountain of OT prophecies with momentous future fulfillment. They don’t seem to know what they are missing.”A large percentage of the Independent Baptist preaching I have personally heard over the past 43 years has been motivational pablum (baby food) with no serious exegesis of Scripture and little spiritual depth. Churches that aren’t serious Bible education institutions are building on the sand, and they won’t stand for long in today’s spiritual climate." One of the reasons why we have shallowness in some IFB is the lack of in-depth, serious, verse-by-verse, book by book, Bible teaching and sound Expository preaching. Alan Pastor Scott Markle, John Young, Invicta and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted April 13, 2017 Members Share Posted April 13, 2017 33 minutes ago, Alan said: One of the reasons why we have shallowness in some IFB is the lack of in-depth, serious, verse-by-verse, book by book, Bible teaching and sound Expository preaching. Alan Indeed. And one the great reasons for this is that many Independent Baptist pastors are NOT real Bible students. Far too many put forth more effort to study the "movement" than to study the Word. John Young, Alan and No Nicolaitans 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1611mac Posted April 13, 2017 Members Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) I sometimes think that more attention is paid to "programs" and "slogans" and "family day" instead of spending the time providing Bible education for self (the pastor) and educating and warning the sheep. I once told a pastor that he should login to Facebook only if to see what his people were posting (it was not very honoring stuff). His reply was "Why would I want to do that? I don't want to get depressed. I want to be happy." I wondered at that moment if he was really called to pastor. Why would a shepherd be willing to let his sheep go astray just so he could be "happy" and have it easy??????? Why would a man take the easy way and provide "fluff" SS material instead of finding or developing a good Bible teaching program? etc...... Edited April 13, 2017 by 1611mac John Young, Alan and Pastor Scott Markle 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted April 13, 2017 Members Share Posted April 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, 1611mac said: I sometimes think that more attention is paid to "programs" and "slogans" and "family day" instead of spending the time providing Bible education for self (the pastor) and educating and warning the sheep. I once told a pastor that he should login to Facebook only if to see what his people were posting (it was not very honoring stuff). His reply was "Why would I want to do that? I don't want to get depressed. I want to be happy." I wondered at that moment if he was really called to pastor. Why would a shepherd be willing to let his sheep go astray just so he could be "happy" and have it easy??????? Why would a man take the easy way and provide "fluff" SS material instead of finding or developing a good Bible teaching program? What an utter shame and sin!!! 1 Timothy 4:15-16 -- "Meditate on these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. Take heed unto thyself and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." With conviction I am a Fundamentalist - specifically because I believe in the fundamental authority of God's Holy Word for all belief and behavior. However, much that I find in fundamentalism grieves my heart (which then moves me to consider how much I myself do grieve the heart of God my heavenly Father, Jesus Christ my Savior, and the indwelling Holy Spirit). John Young and Alan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted April 13, 2017 Members Share Posted April 13, 2017 17 minutes ago, 1611mac said: I sometimes think that more attention is paid to "programs" and "slogans" and "family day" instead of spending the time providing Bible education for self (the pastor) and educating and warning the sheep. Good point. Pastor Scott Markle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveW Posted April 13, 2017 Members Share Posted April 13, 2017 No disagreement, but another aspect. You cannot force people to learn. In my adult Sunday school class I have been teaching a basic apologetics course, but first up not everyone comes. Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted April 13, 2017 Members Share Posted April 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, DaveW said: In my adult Sunday school class I have been teaching a basic apologetics course, but first up not everyone comes. This is true. It almost seems like a lot of saints are just not interested in learning the scriptures. DaveW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1611mac Posted April 14, 2017 Members Share Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, DaveW said: No disagreement, but another aspect. You cannot force people to learn. In my adult Sunday school class I have been teaching a basic apologetics course, but first up not everyone comes. You cannot force people to learn but God can help you to motivate people to want to learn. Not throwing any stones at teachers here... I agree with you DaveW.... Even if the teacher is prepared well the people DO have to WANT to grow. I've had more than disappointment myself.... In his reports, Bro. Cloud sometimes mentions the lack of interest at his book table (at conferences, etc.) I've seen it myself. I also used to own and operate a bookstore and I did a few conferences. I quit pretty quickly because I learned that good doctrinal books just don't sell. I really hate to have to say that but it's true. Edited April 14, 2017 by 1611mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted April 14, 2017 Members Share Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, 1611mac said: In his reports, Bro. Cloud sometimes mentions the lack of interest at his book table (at conferences, etc.) I've seen it myself. I also used to own and operate a bookstore and I did a few conferences. I quit pretty quickly because I learned that good doctrinal books just don't sell. I really hate to have to say that but it's true. Yeah, and then I write my first book to be 450 pages long. What exactly was I thinkin'? Yet in truth I knew exactly what I was doing when I did it, and I knew how many would respond unto such a large book. Fundamentalist believers rarely study and rarely read. However, I have simply decided to allow the Lord my God to do the selling. Books of Biblical substance are desperately needed from the Fundamental Baptist perspective. Thus I have decided to write with the Biblical substance that our Lord has graciously granted to me, and I have decided to trust Him to do with it as He sees fit. (Note: I have NO expectations of ever making any substantial money off this endeavor, and indeed it can be discouraging at times.) Edited April 14, 2017 by Pastor Scott Markle John Young, Jordan Kurecki and Alan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1611mac Posted April 14, 2017 Members Share Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Yeah, and then I write my first book to be 450 pages long. What exactly was I thinkin'? What's the title of your book? You got an eBook edition? -edit- ahh.... silly me! I see your "spirit of Revival" logo just purchased your Kindle edition.. Edited April 14, 2017 by 1611mac Pastor Scott Markle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted April 14, 2017 Members Share Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, 1611mac said: What's the title of your book? You got an eBook edition? -edit- ahh.... silly me! I see your "spirit of Revival" logo just purchased your Kindle edition.. Actually, my first book is on the subject of marriage - "God's Wisdom for Marriage & The Home" (450 pgs.). Brother Cloud recently purchased it from the book table of Evangelist Rick Flanders (who is a friend and who carries my marriage book and revival book on his book table) at a venue completely unknown to myself. After reading the book, Brother Cloud sent me an email message to express his appreciation (which is the only reason that I even knew that he had made the purchase). Then he proceeded to recommend my marriage book in one of his Friday postings and in his Oh Timothy magazine (earlier this year). I am compelled to express significant appreciation for his public recommendation, for it has generated a significant number of sales since. (Note: I recognize that sales are most definitely NOT everything; however, when another helps sales through public recommendation, I believe that appreciation is in order.) My second book is the one that you see in my logo - "The Spirit of Revival: A Contrite and Humble Spirit" (200 pgs.) My third book is - "The Tender Mercies of the Lord" (127 pages). Yes, all three books can be acquired as e-books through Amazon. Three more books are presently in production: 1. Thou Shalt Do These Things: A Study of the Commands in the New Testament 2. In the World Not of the World: The Believer's Relationship to the World 3. The Basis of Revival: Foundational Truths of Revival The first two of these I expect to be in publication before the year ends. The third I am not so certain. Edited April 14, 2017 by Pastor Scott Markle John Young and Alan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1611mac Posted April 14, 2017 Members Share Posted April 14, 2017 I'll check them all out (your books)... Well, small world! I do the website and mailings so I'm the one who posted that. But there is so much info I can't remember all the names and such. It's all I can do to keep up with Bro. Cloud. He doesn't waste one second of time. I see your church is not in the Way of Life church directory. You can fill out the questionnaire HERE if you are interested. But note that you must score perfect on the 30 questions to be listed (practically). He went really strict with the listings about two years ago. Most churches on the list wouldn't not qualify now.. We are trying to locate those and remove them but churches change faster that you can keep up. I am amazed at how many pastors outright lie on the questionnaire ust to get listed. (I catch their lie by checking their website and sometimes even Youtube videos, etc.) Do you happen to know Pastor Watson in Warren? I was there with Bro. Cloud a couple of years ago. Actually, I think I've been there twice. Pastor Scott Markle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted April 14, 2017 Members Share Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, 1611mac said: I see your church is not in the Way of Life church directory. You can fill out the questionnaire HERE if you are interested. But note that you must score perfect on the 30 questions to be listed (practically). He went really strict with the listings about two years ago. Most churches on the list wouldn't not qualify now.. We are trying to locate those and remove them but churches change faster that you can keep up. I am amazed at how many pastors outright lie on the questionnaire ust to get listed. (I catch their lie by checking their website and sometimes even Youtube videos, etc.) Do you happen to know Pastor Watson in Warren? I was there with Bro. Cloud a couple of years ago. Actually, I think I've been there twice. Brother Schneck, I have read over the questionnaire a number of times over the last few years, and have found myself at the same difficulty every time. I am aware that I do not hold precisely to the same position on repentance for salvation as Brother Cloud's position. I do strongly believe that repentance IS necessary. I do strongly believe that true repentance will result in a change of direction. However, I am aware that Brother Cloud and I have a different "definition" as to what the "change in direction" will be with regard to eternal salvation. I could probably mark his question on the matter with the approved answer; however, knowing my difference with Brother Cloud on the matter, I believe that this would be dishonest. Thus I have not pursued an attempt at the questionnaire. In addition, I am aware that Brother Cloud and I have a very, VERY slight difference concerning the matter of "adapting" music. I would oppose a very large percentage of so doing, and I am very grieved at what I see within various "large" fundamentalist ministries concerning the matter. However, I am not yet convinced that it is 100% sinful in 100% of the cases. Thus these two questions in the questionnaire prevent me from seeking to join. I do not desire to be one of those dishonest pastors about which you spoke above. Concerning Pastor Watson in Warren -- I am not familiar with him. Edited April 14, 2017 by Pastor Scott Markle wretched 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1611mac Posted April 14, 2017 Members Share Posted April 14, 2017 Brother Markle... I don't agree 100% with Bro. Cloud on all points either. No one agrees with other's 100% and he always says that if you say you do you are not telling the truth. He also says that he does not agree with himself 100% of the time! Could we go email and discuss this further. I suspect you are fine to put on the directory (much closer to what he would want than most that are currently listed). But even if you don't care to be in the directory I would like to know more about your views. I'll send you my personal email address via PM. HappyChristian, Pastor Scott Markle and wretched 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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