Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Holy week


Recommended Posts

  • Members
37 minutes ago, Tyndale said:

I have seen and read where different KJV defenders have given as many as three different, conflicting explanations for the KJV's use of "Easter" at Acts 12:4.  Some claim that the KJV's use of Easter is not wrong because the word Easter could be used to refer to the Jewish Passover in the time of the making of the KJV.   Some claim that the KJV's use of Easter is not wrong because it was used to refer to some pagan feast or festival.  Others claim that the KJV's use of Easter is not wrong because it was used to refer to the Christian Easter.

Which of these three explanations is the actual meaning intended by the one or ones who put this word Easter in the KJV?  Can all three of these explanations be correct or would at least two of them have to be incorrect?   Easter cannot properly be given all three different meanings at the same time for one particular use.  Do you think that permitting the possibility of three explanations [two of which could not be correct] would be giving a clear straight answer with no room for doubt?

My points taken from the KJV itself should have made it very clear (with no room for doubt) what I considered the way the term was used to be right in this context. 

In Acts 12:3, it is noted that "he [Herod] saw that it [his killing of James] pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also."  Clearly from the context, it is asserted that Herod was attempting to proceed further to take another action that pleased the Jews.  How would Herod supposedly waiting until after some pagan festival be a further action that pleased the Jews?  How would Herod supposedly waiting until after Easter Sunday be an action that pleased the Jews?  Herod was persecuting the church or persecuting believers so why would it be suggested by Luke to his Christian readers that Herod was supposedly doing something that would honor a Christian celebration?  That would seem to conflict with what Luke himself just had stated in the context.  Was not this term clearly used in relationship to an further action intended to please the Jews?  The ones in this context who were clearly observing the days of unleavened bread were the Jews, and it is known from the KJV at Luke 22:1 and Ezekiel 45:21 that the days or feast of unleavened bread can be called the Passover.  Was Herod only waiting for one day to pass or was he waiting for a longer period of time [the feast of unleavened bread that is called the Passover at Luke 22:1 and Ezekiel 45:21]?

Luke 22:1

Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

It is also known from the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV was a revision that the term Easter was used for the Jewish Passover.  It was also pointed out how one of the KJV translators in a sermon in 1608 [during the period when the KJV was being made] used the word Easter for the Jewish Passover.

Okay. Thank you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
On 4/16/2017 at 5:38 AM, Tyndale said:

In Acts 12:3, it is noted that "he [Herod] saw that it [his killing of James] pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also."  Clearly from the context, it is asserted that Herod was attempting to proceed further to take another action that pleased the Jews.  How would Herod supposedly waiting until after some pagan festival be a further action that pleased the Jews?  How would Herod supposedly waiting until after Easter Sunday be an action that pleased the Jews?  Herod was persecuting the church or persecuting believers so why would it be suggested by Luke to his Christian readers that Herod was supposedly doing something that would honor a Christian celebration?  That would seem to conflict with what Luke himself just had stated in the context.  Was not this term clearly used in relationship to an further action intended to please the Jews?  The ones in this context who were clearly observing the days of unleavened bread were the Jews, and it is known from the KJV at Luke 22:1 and Ezekiel 45:21 that the days or feast of unleavened bread can be called the Passover.  Was Herod only waiting for one day to pass or was he waiting for a longer period of time [the feast of unleavened bread that is called the Passover at Luke 22:1 and Ezekiel 45:21]?

Luke 22:1

Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

It is also known from the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV was a revision that the term Easter was used for the Jewish Passover.  It was also pointed out how one of the KJV translators in a sermon in 1608 [during the period when the KJV was being made] used the word Easter for the Jewish Passover.

Easter is reference to the Christian aspects of the Passover week. Just as Passover is specifically one day in the "Pesach week" but can be used in reference to the whole event, so to Easter is a specific day In the "Pesach week". Passover specifically is when the Lamb is slain but Easter is specifically when Jesus Christ rose again (Easter in general meaning "Dawning"). As seen in the context, Herod was performing an anti-Resurection Easter to please the Jews. James being the first Apostle martyred on or near Passover meal, a picture of Jesus dying, and Peter was supposed to be the next martyr. Jesus being unable to be held by the grave ten years before, Herod wanted to prove that Peter could be held beyond Easter (the Christian aspects of the Passover week culminating in the Easter Resurrection of Christ). The translators use Easter instead of Passover because they wanted to emphasize the Christian aspects that Herod wanted to disprove for the Jews rather then simply in reference to the the original O.T. Passover.

(Also, While Herod was an Edomite by decent, he was a Jew by religion not Pagan. John the Baptist did not condemn him for worshiping pagan idols but rather for breaking the Law of Moses which Herod claimed to be keeping and following as the Jew's "rightful" king).

Edited by John Young
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators
13 hours ago, John Young said:

The translators use Easter instead of Passover because they wanted to emphasize the Christian aspects that Herod wanted to disprove for the Jews rather then simply in reference to the the original O.T. Passover.

Bro. John, where do we find justification for this assertion other than "what someone said."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
9 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bro. John, where do we find justification for this assertion other than "what someone said."

The fact that they chose to use the English word "Easter" instead of "Passover" for the Greek word "Pascha" makes this self evident. Easter is an entirely Christian church word for the Resurrection Morning Of Christ (it was used for nothing else by the Anglican church during the time of the translators). If the translators thought that it had nothing to do with the Resurrection of Christ and only the O.T. Passover then they would have used the English word "Passover" like they did in every other instance of the word "Pascha" in the bible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
10 hours ago, John Young said:

The fact that they chose to use the English word "Easter" instead of "Passover" for the Greek word "Pascha" makes this self evident. Easter is an entirely Christian church word for the Resurrection Morning Of Christ (it was used for nothing else by the Anglican church during the time of the translators). If the translators thought that it had nothing to do with the Resurrection of Christ and only the O.T. Passover then they would have used the English word "Passover" like they did in every other instance of the word "Pascha" in the bible.

It is not actually demonstrated to be self-evident.   Perhaps your statement was merely assumption or speculation since you seem to be assuming what you think that the KJV translators may have thought.  Can you provide any quotations from the writings or sermons of the KJV translators to support your statement?

 As quoted earlier, in a sermon in 1608 during the time of the making of the KJV, one of the KJV translators used the word "Easter" concerning the Jewish Passover.  That sermon by a KJV translator would demonstrate that the word Easter could be used for something else than a Christian church word during the time of the translators.  In several of the pre-1611 English Bibles, both the word Easter and the word Passover were interchangeably used for the Jewish Passover.  The 1602 edition of the Bishops' Bible printed during the lifetime of the KJV translators still had Easter for the Jewish Passover at a verse in the gospel of John.  The Bishops' Bible was the accepted official translation of the Church of England during the time of the translators up to 1611 so it also demonstrates that the word Easter was used for something else than only a Christian church word. 

In their preface to the 1611, the KJV translators suggested that they sometimes chose to vary their renderings of the same original language word and not be consistent.

Edited by Tyndale
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
On Wed Apr 19 2017 at 0:52 AM, MountainChristian said:

Was Easter a Holy Day to Herod and the Jews so they could do no work by killing Peter on a Sabbath?

Was Passover a Holy Day to Herod and the Jews so they could do no work by killing Peter on a Sabbath?

The first and last day of the feast of unleavened bread were Sabbath days, and the regular weekly Sabbath was also observed. Aside from those, there was nothing stopping the execution of Peter. 

The  Passover itself wa not a Sabbath. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
18 hours ago, Tyndale said:

It is not actually demonstrated to be self-evident.   

Self evident 101.... the words and the context. They necessitated the use of Easter because Christians were looking towards the resurrection and Herod was attempting to disrupt the Easter observance of the church in favor of the Jews observance of Passover. Acts 12:1-4 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. 2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)[Passover week Ezekiel 45:21] 4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter [Christian observance of the resurrection which (has been, was then, and is now, part of the "Pasch week", and) culminated the weeks commemorations for the Christian but not for the lost Jew] to bring him forth to the people.

John 19:4 Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.

Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Online Edition

American Dictionary OF THE English Language

Easter

E'ASTER, noun

A festival of the christian church observed in commemoration of our Savior's resurrection. It answers to the pascha or passover of the Hebrews, and most nations still give it this name, pascha, pask, paque.

Passover

P'ASSOVER, noun [pass and over.] A feast of the Jews, instituted to commemorate the providential escape of the Hebrews, in Egypt, when God smiting the first-born of the Egyptians, passed over the houses of the Israelites, which were marked with the blood of the paschal lamb.

1. The sacrifice offered at the feast of the passover

Pasch

PASCH, noun [See Paschal.] The passover; the feast of Easter.

Paschal

PAS'CHAL, adjective [Latin pascha.] Pertaining to the passover, or to Easter.

Acts 12:24 But the word of God grew and multiplied.

 

Mark 16:1-2 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

East

EAST, noun [Latin oriens, this word may belong to the root of hoise, hoist.]

1. The point in the heavens, where the sun is seen to rise at the equinox, or when it is in the equinoctial, or the corresponding point on the earth; one of the four cardinal points. The east and the west are the points where the equator intersects the horizon. But to persons under the equinoctial line, that line constitutes east and west.

2. The eastern parts of the earth; the regions or countries which lie east of Europe, or other country. In this indefinite sense, the word is applied to Asia Minor, Syria, Chaldea, Persia, India, China, etc. We speak of the riches of the east the diamonds and pearls of the east the kings of the east

The gorgeous east with richest hand,

Pours on her kings barbaric, pearl and gold.

EAST, adjective Towards the rising sun; or towards the point where the sun rises, when in the equinoctial; as the east gate; the east border; the east side. The east wind is a wind that blows from the east

Edited by John Young
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Easter is not associated with the Passover in fact.

Check the dates of Easter as compared to the Passover - they can be as much as a month different. They are calculated differently.

I am making no other statement than that Easter is not always during the feast of unleavened bread.

Draw whatever conclusions you like from that, but it is fact. 

Edited by DaveW
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Biblically Easter is associated with and follows the feast of unleavened bread, regardless of extra biblical calculations. Our feast is symbolized in the Lord's Supper and Easter proper is on the first Sunday after the Passover sacrifice.

 

1 Corinthians 5:7-8 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Edited by John Young
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...