Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Early church eternal security


Recommended Posts

  • Members
17 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

I'm not going to wade through everything above. But the early church was taught eternal security by the Apostles. I'm not concerned with what the Church of Rome may say or do, so I won't comment on them.

Remember the Apostles were instructed by Christ to "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"  Matthew 28:20. Jesus taught his disciples eternal security which they took and gave to the early churches. John 10:28 "they shall never perish". John 3:16 "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". So what did Paul teach? Romans 6:23 "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Galatians 6:8 "but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting." Then check the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians 15:14-23.

I needed to add something I left off before. They did of course LIVE eternal security...see Foxe's Book of Martyrs.

Thank you for your comment, i appreciate it!

I do have a question, though. Just to clarify what do you mean about the martyrs living eternal security? I was just a little confused. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
18 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

I'm not going to wade through everything above. But the early church was taught eternal security by the Apostles. I'm not concerned with what the Church of Rome may say or do, so I won't comment on them.

Remember the Apostles were instructed by Christ to "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"  Matthew 28:20. Jesus taught his disciples eternal security which they took and gave to the early churches. John 10:28 "they shall never perish". John 3:16 "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". So what did Paul teach? Romans 6:23 "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Galatians 6:8 "but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting." Then check the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians 15:14-23.

I needed to add something I left off before. They did of course LIVE eternal security...see Foxe's Book of Martyrs.

 

37 minutes ago, Roselove said:

Thank you for your comment, i appreciate it!

I do have a question, though. Just to clarify what do you mean about the martyrs living eternal security? I was just a little confused. 

See Acts 7:51-60 and pay special attention to verse 59. This is a martyr living eternal security and even unto death. If you've read Foxe's Book of Martyrs then you will see that men and women lived their eternal security right up to the axe falling on their neck or the Roman Church pulling them apart on the rack. They died praising Jesus Christ for the hope of life eternal. By the way if you happen to be a member of the Roman Church, do yourself a favor, ignore what they say and get a Foxe's Book of Martyrs and read it along side a KJV with private prayer. I did say if you're a member, if not I still suggest the reading.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
4 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

 

See Acts 7:51-60 and pay special attention to verse 59. This is a martyr living eternal security and even unto death. If you've read Foxe's Book of Martyrs then you will see that men and women lived their eternal security right up to the axe falling on their neck or the Roman Church pulling them apart on the rack. They died praising Jesus Christ for the hope of life eternal. By the way if you happen to be a member of the Roman Church, do yourself a favor, ignore what they say and get a Foxe's Book of Martyrs and read it along side a KJV with private prayer. I did say if you're a member, if not I still suggest the reading.

Okay, I think I understand now. Thank you! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
6 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

...do yourself a favor, ignore what they say and get a Foxe's Book of Martyrs and read it along side a KJV with private prayer.

I have several excerpt books of Foxe's Book of Martyrs, but no complete copy exists in stores.  There is only one company who reproduces it in its entirety.  I plan on purchasing a copy and making a case for it later this summer.  You can find it here: 1684 Foxe’s Book of Martyrs Facsimile Reproduction

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 2:02 PM, The real Bob Hutton said:

You have made a very good point. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard people explain away the plain meaning of the Bible by referring to "the original Greek"; an example of this is where some people explain away the plain meaning of the word "all" in 1st Timothy 2 v 4 or "every" in Hebrews 2 v 9.

Also, some of the translators of the KJV were such experts in the original languages that they were fluent even as children (yes, children).  Their knowledge was remarkable, not to mention their absolute confidence in the Bible as God's infallible word.  Many of the modern "translators" do not even believe in the infallibility of the Bible.

for those interested in this train of thought I suggest the book "God's Secretaries" written by a secular writer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Something simple to think about....  If something is known to be true and it is accepted fact then it usually doesn't get written about (and thus there is no "controversy" untill later when some apostate starts pushing false doctrine.   So silence on ANY subject MAY simply mean that it was generally accepted as truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
37 minutes ago, 1611mac said:

Something simple to think about....  If something is known to be true and it is accepted fact then it usually doesn't get written about (and thus there is no "controversy" untill later when some apostate starts pushing false doctrine.   So silence on ANY subject MAY simply mean that it was generally accepted as truth.

I read this...thought about it...read it again...contemplated it...read it again...and mulled it over...and I believe this is a valid point. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
48 minutes ago, 1611mac said:

Something simple to think about....  If something is known to be true and it is accepted fact then it usually doesn't get written about (and thus there is no "controversy" untill later when some apostate starts pushing false doctrine.   So silence on ANY subject MAY simply mean that it was generally accepted as truth.

Although I agree that there is truth in this theory, I believe it can only be used to support a stronger argument.  Just because something is not mentioned, it does not necessarily follow that it is commonly believed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
2 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

Although I agree that there is truth in this theory, I believe it can only be used to support a stronger argument.  Just because something is not mentioned, it does not necessarily follow that it is commonly believed.

And that is the reason I said in capitol letters "MAY" -  Silence itself cannot prove anything can it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
1 hour ago, Brother Stafford said:

Although I agree that there is truth in this theory, I believe it can only be used to support a stronger argument.  Just because something is not mentioned, it does not necessarily follow that it is commonly believed.

Do you feel it was a common belief, back then? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
5 hours ago, Roselove said:

Do you feel it was a common belief, back then? 

I know it may sound cliché but, don't trust feelings or emotions only trust what you can prove. From scripture I can prove what was taught to the first churches, I've already done that above. My faith rests in Christ's promise of eternal life. I know my faith in Jesus Christ is not limited to my generation. The age of the church has existed since the Apostles began establishing churches, in over 2000 years of generations. All these generations before me had the same faith, if they had it, given to me by God. I know by my faith, I teach eternal security. I trust God's word that He doesn't change or alter from generation to generation. Since I by faith in God teach eternal security I know eternal security was taught by the early churches of the same faith I have. I have the evidence of the faith in eternal security by the recorded lives and death of the martyrs. I understand the early churches didn't have the KJV but, it is obvious they communicated to one another and shared the letters of Paul. So, they did receive the same information and assurance of eternal live we have today. There is no speculation here, it is recorded in my KJV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
On 3/14/2017 at 11:19 PM, Roselove said:

I don't understand why there would be no writings that i can find anywhere at all, talking about being eternally secure. I just find that a bit, odd. 

There are early writings; there are many of them in the King James Bible and the fragments that make up the texts from which the KJV was derived.  

  • John 3:16
  • John 6:37
  • John 10:27-29
  • 2 Corinthians 1:22
  • 1 John 5:13
  • And most clearly: Romans 8:38-39

Correct me if I am wrong, but you don't seem to be considering the KJV, and its sources, valid historical writings.  

Edited by Brother Stafford
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
9 hours ago, Brother Stafford said:

There are early writings; there are many of them in the King James Bible and the fragments that make up the texts from which the KJV was derived.  

Correct me if I am wrong, but you don't seem to be considering the KJV, and its sources, valid historical writings.  

I believe you're correct. Is Roselove's dilemma with the Bible's inerrant truth? I just read 2 Cor. 1 this morning and also... 2Co 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

It is true that there appears to be no KNOWN affirmation of a doctrine of "Eternal Security" in the early Church writings. (Here I would restrict it to the Ante-Nicene pre-4th Century).

But, there are doubtless countless writings we no longer have access to.

To this I would say several things:

The early Church had much larger fish to fry quite frankly.

It was busy fleshing out doctrines such as the Deity of Jesus Christ, the Humanity of Jesus Christ, the Divinity of the Holy Spirit, the personhood of the Spirit, the Nature of the Trinity, the incarnation etc...

I would argue that genuine saved believers had some pretty strange ideas we would consider all but heretical in this day and age.  And we can expect too much from them sometimes.  We are the beneficiaries of 2,000 years of Christian thought.  They were often the beneficiaries of a few books of the New Testament perhaps a gospel or two and some letters of Paul.  It was not really until  Chalcedon (if I remember correctly) that everyone even agreed upon the Scriptural Cannon.  The early Church Fathers had no such benefits........and they were dealing with much "bigger" issues.

That being said, when they do make round-about mention of it.....they indeed do not seem to support any such thing as "Once-saved always saved" or "Eternal Security" etc....

This is not surprising really.  Such an idea would be foreign to the world they inhabited at the time.  Christianity would be the only faith that had such a doctrine (and still is).  It's very counter-intuitive.  And yes, there are numerous Scriptures which demand a "faithfulness to the end" to ensure salvation.  But, the specific historical and social context of such writings is informative....They were under persecution in a way that we are not.  They were likely referring to holding fast and not denying their faith in the face of persecution as much as saying "don't lose your Salvation". 

To be clear, I am Skeptical about Eternal Security myself. 

And I do think that Early Church writing is of value on any Doctrinal topic......Yes, I do care what they said and what they taught.

But, I would be cautious about allowing what we have on that specific issue to inform your decision making much. 

I use an informal sort of sliding scale of how much weight I place on the Church Fathers on different topics.  I am likely to have more faith in their take on say.....the Incarnation or the Trinity than I would on their precise Soteriology. 

Here.....it really is best to search the Scriptures with diligence and much prayer for your answers. 
 

Edited by Heir of Salvation
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...