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2 hours ago, weary warrior said:

My brother, all of this, in my opinion , only strengthens my position. As long as there is a feud with the man-of-God's wife, this feud will always consume this girl's focus and attention. She will not hear the man of God and the word of God that he teaches.

I've been counseling in the ministry since 1996. I have a mom, 3 sisters, a wife and 4 daughters. And the Bible. I know what Im talking about. Women get so emotionally wrapped up and personally involved in fights with other women, us men can't even begin to relate. Thats why God wont let them teach or lead the men in church. They dont seperate out their emotions, and everything is personal. It sounds like this has become personal with your wife as well. Which is natural. But "where no wood is, there the fire goeth out". Your wife's involvement in this girl's rebellion is, in your own words, resented. And I'm sure it's not doing your wife much good either.

How would I handle the situation?

First - I would remove my wife from it completely, for her own well-being. My wife's ministry is as my help meet. Not my associate pastor of women. I would remove her out from under a burden she is shouldering that she was not created or designed to bare, because I love her more than any church member, and it is my job to protect her. Often from herself.

Second - I would go have coffee or something with the young husband. He will never be a man unless treated like a man and given the responsibility as such. I would gently lay the responsibility of his wife's behaviour squarely on his shoulders, and then offer to be there to encourage and counsel him while he learned to carry it. But he has to carry it. No one else. God didn't give it to anyone else, so no one else has the right. All of your effort should be focused on him, by default you will be handling the other situation by extension.

Third - I would completely back off all pressure that my wife and I have put on this young lady to conform or perform in any manner. We would love her, pray for her and gently place her in the hands of her head. As long as someone else is always handling his responsibility for him, why should he ever step up? 

I know. From reading the other posts on here, I'm pretty sure that I will be standing alone in this position. And it's OK. But I feel I've given you the counsel that God said give, as difficult as it is to hear and understand in this modern age.

 

Actually, in considerin all I have read, and there is a lot of good here, this is about what I have been moving toward. I am going to speak with the husband and put my wife off the hunt, as it were. We have spoken quite a bit-I know she's passionate about growth but this isn't working. She's been trying to get on this posting to see all this, but for some reason it is saying she needs permission to get into the forum, even though she's a member with no restrictions.

Thanks brother. You're not alone

 

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12 hours ago, weary warrior said:

I know. From reading the other posts on here, I'm pretty sure that I will be standing alone in this position. And it's OK. But I feel I've given you the counsel that God said give, as difficult as it is to hear and understand in this modern age.

 

10 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Thanks brother. You're not alone

This is the same that I would advise as well. Its important to not interfere with God's headship authority but rather support it though our preaching. I often tell the church men that I am not their wives authority, they are. It is the individuals job to conform to the leading of their authority. Men to Christ, Women to their Husbands, Singles tho their parents. Any other submission in regards to the church is voluntarily one to another in the fear of God. Love them but also teach them to fear God and obey willingly. Then the sinful habits will go away on their own because sin is the symptom of walking in the flesh and not with the spirit of God. If we merely demand a person do away with this sin or that bad habit but neglect always replacing them with the spiritual things, then another sin will always take its place a haughty and rebellious spirit develops and we look like "better then thou" nitpicks. Ephesians chapter 5 is a good passage on following God.

Ephesians 5:1-2 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2 and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Ephesians 5:21 submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

Edited by John Young
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I will be giving my attention to this tonight, as I am speaking with the husband, alone, tonight. I am going to be placing the burden of his wife's instruction into his hands, outside, of course, on the general preaching-if there comes any issues, ie, dress, modesty, etc, issues we have had in the past, I will be addressing him about it, and expecting him to deal with it. Going to sort of force him to be the man.

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On 03/07/2017 at 8:29 PM, Alan said:

Oliver :15_1_63: ,

This is a good idea.

A lot of times women can help one another in areas that men cannot. Sometimes, some fellowship, talk, discussion, with other ladies in her position, can be a help, an encouragement, and a blessing.

Did not Rebecca Young have some devotions? or Bible studies? or something of this nature in the Christian LIving / OnLine Baptist Ladies forum at one time? Maybe your wife could get with her? Or, maybe your wife could start something for the ladies?:4_6_2v:

 

There really are no ladies except for this young woman, and one on one with her would be unwise. Husband forgot the mention there are only 4 regulars right now , that couple , and two brothers who were saved in our church 7 years ago.

 Dear Husband also left out these people have been using us both up. Calling and texting at all hours of the morning and night, often sanding rides to the hospital 40 miles away or rides home from the hospital, they don't drive, we are 60 miles away from a big city for shopping. This couple ostensibly invited new people to church, who live close to them, then they were inviting a girl their age to stay with them, them abusing her in their home, accusing her of stealing their Top Ramen, but demanding her food stamps for their food, she finally left the area. The other new people they invited are more welfare folks that don't drive, and now we are taking them shopping every month 60 miles away, and they hardly show up to church, but are at least nice and grateful for the help.

The couple are never really grateful for the constant help. We have given them dog food, vitamins for their  constant health problems, loaned them two rabbit traps as the husband was always. " Hunting" rabbits with a 22 which his nieghbor complained about, ( remember, very rural), and we never got those traps back, we gave them a charge controller and set it up with the solar panels their landlord had ( father of the twins in our church), when they decided to pay more rent and get into a house, we spent $300 on groceries and flatware and dishes for them to prove to adult protective services they were competent enough to live on their own( maybe that was the mistake). I did that without complaint, thinking I was doing the right thing. I cleaned her refrigerator and stove for the APS worker meeting so she wouldn't send the wife back to her abusive mother ( who is the reason she's in the state she is in). They haven't been able to keep a clean house since. Cigarettes mashed into the floor. They invited us over for Thanksgiving a year ago, house was cold enough we could see our breathe ( yes our house gets like that too but we aren't inviting people over for dinner). Food was cold, served on a take out box lid. We don't have much here but we have a decent thrift store and she goes there a lot. Her idea of cleaning seems to be sweeping everything out the door and throwing it away and buying new stuff to replace it.

They are both on  disability. Her mother put her on ( mental health) and had her on psych meds that retarded her development. But she has shown an amazing ability to pick up on the lessons. But she won't use it.

The husband is Spina bifida, is weak but constantly injuring himself trying to be macho and having to go to the hospital for overexertion. He "works "for a filthy mouthed  reprobate under the radar le and works also for the little store. Shoveling snow. Neither can grasp the separation doctrine . Their best friends are this reprobate and a JW that is a very bad drunk and our neighbor also. DH has tried to reason through the scriptures with the JW and had to shake the dust off his feet. This young  couple refuse to quit hanging out with him. He's a liar and that alone keeps me repulsed by him.  They used to hang with another reprobate who had to move to a larger town for medical reasons, whose son was in trouble for molestation. I mean they have no judgement, they pick the worst people to hang out with. They. Aren't getting them saved. They hang out with drug dealers and turns out they are using pot and now Dear Husband is decided not to judge them anymore. They are now wearing earrings in the nose ( wife) and one ear ( husband). And now we can't say anything because they don't want to be judged.

Wife has been showing abundant cleavage for 6 years and abundant legs. Not a pretty girl either. No amount of begging or instruction seems to help. Sometimes she dresses modest. But it seems to be according to her mood. We even had a pentacostal couple coming for a few months and the wife asked why we didn't do something to correct the young wife. I told her I had. She gave it a go and the young wife ignored her too.

It's not just that I hate her and single her out to be mean to her. She does things that constantly violate human decency and relationship skills. Formerly known as etiquette. But there's no more if that in this town anymore. She blurts out the latest problem going on in her life with no self control. She does this on Facebook. Constant selfies of her and her cleavage. And then gets upset if I say anything.

She constantly misunderstands what I say. One example. I was trying to show the subliminal messages on sex Disney was putting out via Facebook shares, and instead of reading the links and watching the videos, she facebooked to her thousands of " friends" that she was a slut for liking Disney. This began a long public conversation where I was trying to show this was what was going on in the whole world, the deterioration of culture and decency, so maybe she could see where she may have gotten the idea that dressing scantily is something the world influenced her on from. Very young. But not just her, everyone, Brittany Spears and Miley Cyrus are both Disney kids and look at what happened to them. And look at the fools coming out, and just the hypersexuality on of children in no IES and ads. But no, she got mad and her husband got into it and thought I was insulting his wife them started texting Pastor Mike who was in bed Saturday night after 10 pm and he got up and replied to the husband on my computer. But this is typical of what they put us through.

The latest thing is what is happening to the church money?

There is no church money. Nobody gives. It all comes from Pastor Mike's secular job. He pays for everything out if his personal money. But they aren't satisfied with that. They are asking it again. I sent them articles in " should pastor's be paid"? And the articles largely agreed not only pay the pastor, but his car insurance and food  and housing and we know Pastor s that get taken care of. We know we can't expect that. But it's the standard and if they want to help us they can at least start trying to be independent people and quit relying on us for everything so hard. I mean, they don't seem to be capable if buying a stamp to send a letter for example. They ask me for stamps.

Sorry for the rant, but I thought it would help to fill in a few areas.

Oh and we give eggs, not just a dozen, 3 18 packs at a time. We have chickens and we found if we keep a light on in the winter we get winter eggs. We feed them well and we share. But with this couple it's always a demand and no thank yous and it gets tiresome. When they had that other girl at their house, she announced her pregnancy ( out of wedlock of course, how else would it be?) This wife blurted out pastor's wife would supply her with milk and eggs for the baby. Well I might but don't make the offer if you're not me. That's typical of this girl.

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Oops sorry, but because we spend enough on " the church" to try to take care of others, I still am waiting for running water inside the house.( Pipes broken). This is going on 3 years. Right now I wash dishes in a 5 gallon bucket outside, my hot water is the sun heating up the hose. In winter all bets are off. Right now we are enjoying our global warming. Warmest March ever and I love it.

DH bought me a washer and dryer for $20 not a typo, and I love them. They are outside, so when winter, again all bets are off. Our load was frozen in the washer for two months. Dryer has no heating element, sucks in ambient air to dry, fine in summer, not so effective in winter. I will buy an element for $23 , yes it's in my wish list, but again, I get a little tired if these peoples accusations of wasting church money on the goats.

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@Jim_Alaska @Salyan Do you think it would be better to close this thread and remove the above long post by whisperingsage?  It seems like there has been quite a bit more personal and specific information has been added and may be turning into a gossip thread.  If anyone else from that church were to read it, they would certainly know about whom this is being written.

Edited by Brother Stafford
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3 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

@Jim_Alaska @Salyan Do you think it would be better to move this thread into one of the IFB forums or even close it?  It seems like there has been quite a bit more personal and specific information has been added and may be turning into a gossip thread.  If anyone else from that church were to read it, they would certainly know about whom this is being written.

FWIW, no one else in the church attends this site. Otherwise neither of us would mention much of this. The reason we feel comfortable doing it is because I susect we aren't the only ones going through much of these types of things, and are looking for experienced advice and comments. Not to aire dirty laundry.

 

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11 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

FWIW, no one else in the church attends this site. Otherwise neither of us would mention much of this. The reason we feel comfortable doing it is because I susect we aren't the only ones going through much of these types of things, and are looking for experienced advice and comments. Not to aire dirty laundry.

I understand and it has not been too specific until the long post by whisperingsage.  It is my opinion that far too much specific information has been divulged regardless of whether of not they see it.  There is a difference between remaining as vague as possible in order to solicit advice/guidance and divulging the information whispering sage has just included.  If a person releases specific information about another person, without their knowledge and that they would not say in that other person's presence, I would consider that gossip.

It reminds me of a few women I worked with at a Church years ago.  They would say things to me like, "I think we need to pray for Cindy Johnson.  I just found out that she has been cheating on her husband and has gotten pregnant by her lover.  I don't know about you, but I think we should pray for her."

They want to gossip, but know that they shouldn't, so they hide their gossip in the guise of prayerful concern.  I am not claiming that this is what is being done here, but it just reminds me of it.  We don't need to publicly get into nitty-gritty specifics in order to know enough to give counsel.  If a solution really requires the nitty-gritty specifics in order to come to a resolution, I believe it should be taken out of a public forum and into private counsel.

It is my opinion that it is a bad practice and is also bad taste to do so.

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On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 10:08 PM, HappyChristian said:

I have had to learn to deal with myself and my natural tendency to be blunt (very often too blunt and with no tact at all)

 

gasp, Say it isn't so!!!    :4_2_109v:  (the big grin emoticon seem to have gone missing)

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Sorry, I just need to beg for some help because Mike's Sending Pastor died and his other older Pastor soon after, the son left the area, and there are no IFB Pastors around here that we could counsel with. I know it sounds like dirty laundry and complaints, who wants to listen to those? But we are at our wits end. Normally we could resolve long term troubled and roubling people with prayer, but these folks are constantly demanding , constantly texting, wanting rides back and forth from the pot growers house on church day, just yesterday to get to church. They live a block from the church meeting house. But somehow managed to get to the pot growers house OK. I have asked DH to put boundaries on their texting times, say, not before 6 am and not after 9 pm. And please not the Saturday before church when he has to do his lesson. But they just don't care. They just violate their agreements all the time.  I used to be able to drive them when DH was at his secular job, but we couldn't afford the fees and couldn't get my Jeep legal, so I have been grounded since November. Now Dear husband has to waste his days off taking people shopping, or they conveniently demand he take them to their dr appointments. For awhile, they would make these appointments during the week and ask him to take a day off from his secular job to take them. recently they have been making their appointments on his day off, Friday. But still, they like to say they don't do this anymore, but then they do. As a matter of courtesy, we take our charges out to breakfast at least, because we need to eat too, and it would indeed be rude to not feed them. But there is no kicking in for gas or helping out with a tip or anything.

I just see this as abusing Mike's good nature- I did this for YEARS before him ( with many people) and finally, all my patience coupons were used up. The book was empty. And I began to say "No" to people like this. But he still has patience coupons in his booklet. And he just thinks it's mean to say no. He thinks it's unbiblical to set boundaries.

22 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

I understand and it has not been too specific until the long post by whisperingsage.  It is my opinion that far too much specific information has been divulged regardless of whether of not they see it.  There is a difference between remaining as vague as possible in order to solicit advice/guidance and divulging the information whispering sage has just included.  If a person releases specific information about another person, without their knowledge and that they would not say in that other person's presence, I would consider that gossip.

It reminds me of a few women I worked with at a Church years ago.  They would say things to me like, "I think we need to pray for Cindy Johnson.  I just found out that she has been cheating on her husband and has gotten pregnant by her lover.  I don't know about you, but I think we should pray for her."

They want to gossip, but know that they shouldn't, so they hide their gossip in the guise of prayerful concern.  I am not claiming that this is what is being done here, but it just reminds me of it.  We don't need to publicly get into nitty-gritty specifics in order to know enough to give counsel.  If a solution really requires the nitty-gritty specifics in order to come to a resolution, I believe it should be taken out of a public forum and into private counsel.

It is my opinion that it is a bad practice and is also bad taste to do so.

3

 

 

No names are being used. In the medical field, case studies are referred to all the time, and not using a name is standard and considered a legal and ethical way to teach about how to approach illness or as a Continuing Ed class, or in medical books.

Edited by whisperingsage
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1 hour ago, Brother Stafford said:

@Jim_Alaska @Salyan Do you think it would be better to close this thread and remove the above long post by whisperingsage?  It seems like there has been quite a bit more personal and specific information has been added and may be turning into a gossip thread.  If anyone else from that church were to read it, they would certainly know about whom this is being written.

This thread is in a private forum within a private forum... the odds of anyone from their church finding it is pretty unlikely (and we'd know they were coming!). The purpose of this section is for encouragement and advice... let's give it without nitpicking how it's being asked for or shaming someone for venting a little. If it bothers anyone, they are free to not view this thread.

Let's move on from this now.

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I'm asking for help. I'm dying here. I thought I had my adrenal and thyroid back on track and because of this stress I had to go back on my Adrenal and thyroid pills. I can't function due to the health issues this stress is causing. It's not a simple matter of me being mean to people. I am a nurse. I was a CNA for 10 years, 8.5 years in one nursing home. Dealing with sick people , stroke and dementia patients is really hard, but it helped me develop character. I know how to deal with difficult people, and I know how to love them. Some people, who are more able, don't want help, and there is nothing you can do with them. They make their choices. But in 2003 I became a Pastor's wife and found out I had no voice. I was 41 years old. I am 54 now. If I don't get some decent advice here, I can get sick again, because it will be internalized. That is a real thing.

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2 hours ago, whisperingsage said:

Sorry, I just need to beg for some help because Mike's Sending Pastor died and his other older Pastor soon after, the son left the area, and there are no IFB Pastors around here that we could counsel with. I know it sounds like dirty laundry and complaints, who wants to listen to those? But we are at our wits end. Normally we could resolve long term troubled and roubling people with prayer, but these folks are constantly demanding , constantly texting, wanting rides back and forth from the pot growers house on church day, just yesterday to get to church. They live a block from the church meeting house. But somehow managed to get to the pot growers house OK. I have asked DH to put boundaries on their texting times, say, not before 6 am and not after 9 pm. And please not the Saturday before church when he has to do his lesson. But they just don't care. They just violate their agreements all the time.  I used to be able to drive them when DH was at his secular job, but we couldn't afford the fees and couldn't get my Jeep legal, so I have been grounded since November. Now Dear husband has to waste his days off taking people shopping, or they conveniently demand he take them to their dr appointments. For awhile, they would make these appointments during the week and ask him to take a day off from his secular job to take them. recently they have been making their appointments on his day off, Friday. But still, they like to say they don't do this anymore, but then they do. As a matter of courtesy, we take our charges out to breakfast at least, because we need to eat too, and it would indeed be rude to not feed them. But there is no kicking in for gas or helping out with a tip or anything.

I just see this as abusing Mike's good nature- I did this for YEARS before him ( with many people) and finally, all my patience coupons were used up. The book was empty. And I began to say "No" to people like this. But he still has patience coupons in his booklet. And he just thinks it's mean to say no. He thinks it's unbiblical to set boundaries.

 

 

No names are being used. In the medical field, case studies are referred to all the time, and not using a name is standard and considered a legal and ethical way to teach about how to approach illness or as a Continuing Ed class, or in medical books.

Why do you keep referring to me as "DH"? Just Mike is fine, everyone knows you're my DW, lol. You make me sound like Kim Jong Mike, "Dear Husband". I'll make you call me that at home now.

 

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2 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

Why do you keep referring to me as "DH"? Just Mike is fine, everyone knows you're my DW, lol. You make me sound like Kim Jong Mike, "Dear Husband". I'll make you call me that at home now.

I had to look up what "DH" and "DW" meant.  So, whisperingsage is your wife, Brother Michael?

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