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The Trail of Blood


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6 minutes ago, fastjav390 said:

It's Baptist Brider rubbish. In other words, John Wesley will be waiting on Billy Graham at the wedding feast.

I have ordered the book and have not yet read it.  Could you provide a quote, or quotes, from the book (preferably with page and chapter) that illustrates your conclusion that it is "Baptist Brider rubbish" please?  If that is the case, I would like to be informed.

Edited by Brother Stafford
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This whole Baptist Brider thing is a non-issue for me. In fact I had never even heard the word, "Brider" until joining OB. I am not sure it is even a word.

I do however have to wonder why this would even be an issue among Baptists. If you are a Baptist and firmly believe that only Baptists are the bride, what is the problem? You are in the bride.

But if you are not a Baptist, the so-called Baptist Brider" issue serves no other purpose than a point of contention and an issue to argue over.

Of one thing I am sure, The Lord knows who the bride is.

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Bro. Jim,

I know through personal experience (through helping an individual in the Philippines) that the Brider position is an issue. The Philippines...not the US.

The individual was pressured to be a "real Baptist". Only by the individual becoming a "real Baptist", would the Baptist Brider missionary in the Philippines give further help to this individual. Those who claimed to be Baptists...but weren't "real Baptists"...were looked down upon and frowned upon. To be a "real Baptist", one must accept their Brider position. If one didn't, they weren't a "real Baptist". 

It's an issue, because it promotes a doctrine. 

It you're not a "true Baptist", it does serve a purpose other than a point of contention and an issue to argue over.

It's an "I'm better than you" position. A "look at me" position. It's a position of pride. It says that "non-true Baptists" will be lesser than and will serve "true Baptists" in the future.

I thought we served Christ.

It paints a picture of the Marriage Supper (that isn't clearly given in scripture) and asserts that their position is the only correct position and doctrine. Perhaps not all Briders are prideful, but it is a prideful position when the rubber meets the road. 

I'm a Baptist. I'm a Baptist, because I believe that the Baptist "theology" is the closest to what I see in God's word. However, being a Baptist offers me nothing extra in and of itself. My future standing is based upon my acceptance of Christ as my Savior, and my future rewards are based upon my works here on earth...not whether I'm a Baptist or not. 

There is a free-online Independent Baptist Online College that holds the Brider position. The last time I checked, they were using some of David Cloud's videos in their free courses. I wonder if Mr. Cloud knows this since he opposes the Brider position? One of their tag-lines is that they are "real Baptists". They raised my eyebrows, so I contacted the man in charge. It took a series of several emails BEFORE he finally admitted to me that he was a Baptist Brider. This was a few years ago. I haven't checked to see if it's still in operation.

The Brider position is an issue, and they are spreading the issue. 

I wholeheartedly agree (that under ideal circumstances) church members should only get their teaching from their local church. Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in today. Their are no ideal circumstances that I'm aware of...and the internet, TV, and radio make it much too easy for church members to be influenced by unsound teaching. Add to that...missionaries who teach false doctrine and gather members into their churches. 

We need to reach as many people as we can with the truth of God's word...because others are reaching them too.

 

Edited by No Nicolaitans
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Anyone remember the free 4 year Baptist College (online)? Many of us thought they were briders because of the following...

"that it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership;  that baptism is to be performed under the authority and approval of one of the Lord’s churches (i.e. unapostated Baptist churches);  that those baptized differently than previously stated, should not be received into the membership, but instead should submit to scriptural baptism;  and further, that “open” baptism (non-Baptist and apostated Baptist) and “infant” baptism are to be wholly rejected"

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19 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Anyone remember the free 4 year Baptist College (online)? Many of us thought they were briders because of the following...

"that it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership;  that baptism is to be performed under the authority and approval of one of the Lord’s churches (i.e. unapostated Baptist churches);  that those baptized differently than previously stated, should not be received into the membership, but instead should submit to scriptural baptism;  and further, that “open” baptism (non-Baptist and apostated Baptist) and “infant” baptism are to be wholly rejected"

?

Is this in response to what I wrote, or is it separate? 

Here's the college that I referred to ....

http://www.biblecollegevideos.com/

 

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22 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Anyone remember the free 4 year Baptist College (online)? Many of us thought they were briders because of the following...

Isn't that what NN was just talking about in the post immediately before that?

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I've also heard Briders (yes, it's a very real word) claim that, while Baptists will be the only ones in the Bride, we don't know WHICH Baptists. So we can't be sure if we will be part of the Bride.

Proof that we can, indeed, make dumb statements part of our doctrine if we aren't careful.

 

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On 3/4/2017 at 10:53 PM, HappyChristian said:

I've also heard Briders (yes, it's a very real word) claim that, while Baptists will be the only ones in the Bride, we don't know WHICH Baptists. So we can't be sure if we will be part of the Bride.

Proof that we can, indeed, make dumb statements part of our doctrine if we aren't careful.

 

That's some security there.

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On 3/4/2017 at 0:12 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

This whole Baptist Brider thing is a non-issue for me. In fact I had never even heard the word, "Brider" until joining OB. I am not sure it is even a word.

I do however have to wonder why this would even be an issue among Baptists. If you are a Baptist and firmly believe that only Baptists are the bride, what is the problem? You are in the bride.

But if you are not a Baptist, the so-called Baptist Brider" issue serves no other purpose than a point of contention and an issue to argue over.

Of one thing I am sure, The Lord knows who the bride is.

Jim.. I would point out that there are practical implications of any false teaching... including Briders.  About three years ago I was involved in a good church that was began a slide into Briderism though they would deny it. But their teaching was basically that if you are not part of "the true baptist line" then you are not legitimate.  This teaching crept into sermons and teaching each and every Sunday and Wed.  They were "beating the Brider drum" every time we got together.  When I spoke to the pastor about it I was branded more or less an "outcast" and though not disciplined, I found myself not teaching or preaching (backing up the pastor)  any longer, and being shoved out.  That was fine as my wife and I had already decided to leave the church. 

These things do affect people in real ways. These "minor" things affect ones walk with Christ.  It is not a small thing.  It affected my life in a big way for over a year.  In some ways the issue still "follows me."  These things don't happen in a vacuum.

Edited by 1611mac
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I would agree that there are practical implications to any false teaching, I guess that my mind just works in a simple manner that does not adjust easily to blurring the lines between words, phrases and definitions that I have always taken to mean one thing, only to find out at this late date in life that others have used these things to teach something entirely different.

If I may illustrate what I mean by taking text from your reply it may help to explain my thought lines. You said this: "But their teaching was basically that if you are not part of "the true baptist line" then you are not legitimate". Now, if I am understanding the "brider" issue correctly, if I hold to this premise it would automatically put me in the "brider" camp regardless of whether I identify as a "brider" or not.

My simple mind would never connect the two things unless some person made an issue of it. And this may add to my dilemma, I see the legitimacy of a true Independent Baptist Church as entirely separate from anything to do with "the bride".

To me the lines get blurred when two different subjects or even doctrines are merged into one in an attempt to espouse a "pet theory" and teach it to others.

One "for instance" that may help to explain my thought line is this: I hold to a position of the "one true church" as taught by scripture as being of  like faith and order as we see in scripture. For instance, I would not consider a Pentacostal, or any Protestant so-called "church" as legitimate. But I see this as a distinctly different subject from the Bride of Christ.

Just because I believe that there is a true church, does not, to my mind make me a Baptist Brider. The thought would never have entered my mind without reading or hearing the teaching.

This is why I said in my first reply that this was a non-issue for me, simply because I had never been exposed to it. If this became an issue in my church, or affected other Baptists that we fellowship with, then I would certainly oppose it.

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43 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

I would agree that there are practical implications to any false teaching, I guess that my mind just works in a simple manner that does not adjust easily to blurring the lines between words, phrases and definitions that I have always taken to mean one thing, only to find out at this late date in life that others have used these things to teach something entirely different.

If I may illustrate what I mean by taking text from your reply it may help to explain my thought lines. You said this: "But their teaching was basically that if you are not part of "the true baptist line" then you are not legitimate". Now, if I am understanding the "brider" issue correctly, if I hold to this premise it would automatically put me in the "brider" camp regardless of whether I identify as a "brider" or not.

My simple mind would never connect the two things unless some person made an issue of it. And this may add to my dilemma, I see the legitimacy of a true Independent Baptist Church as entirely separate from anything to do with "the bride".

To me the lines get blurred when two different subjects or even doctrines are merged into one in an attempt to espouse a "pet theory" and teach it to others.

One "for instance" that may help to explain my thought line is this: I hold to a position of the "one true church" as taught by scripture as being of  like faith and order as we see in scripture. For instance, I would not consider a Pentacostal, or any Protestant so-called "church" as legitimate. But I see this as a distinctly different subject from the Bride of Christ.

Just because I believe that there is a true church, does not, to my mind make me a Baptist Brider. The thought would never have entered my mind without reading or hearing the teaching.

This is why I said in my first reply that this was a non-issue for me, simply because I had never been exposed to it. If this became an issue in my church, or affected other Baptists that we fellowship with, then I would certainly oppose it.

Hi Jim.. there's some deep stuff there... I see nothing that I really disagree with (I don't think.)  I was only trying to say that for some, Briderism may be a non-issue (and praise the Lord for that) but for someone else it may be a big issue.  That's all.... that we can't simply say that any issue is "no big deal".  You are right though... as they say.. "You don't know what you don't know."  I am amazed at some of the things I have  been exposed to in my church life.  And until I was exposed to them I didn't even know they existed!  "Hyper-Grace" - "Local Church Only" - "Briderism" - etc....   Thanks Jim.!

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1 hour ago, Jim_Alaska said:

I would agree that there are practical implications to any false teaching, I guess that my mind just works in a simple manner that does not adjust easily to blurring the lines between words, phrases and definitions that I have always taken to mean one thing, only to find out at this late date in life that others have used these things to teach something entirely different.

If I may illustrate what I mean by taking text from your reply it may help to explain my thought lines. You said this: "But their teaching was basically that if you are not part of "the true baptist line" then you are not legitimate". Now, if I am understanding the "brider" issue correctly, if I hold to this premise it would automatically put me in the "brider" camp regardless of whether I identify as a "brider" or not.

My simple mind would never connect the two things unless some person made an issue of it. And this may add to my dilemma, I see the legitimacy of a true Independent Baptist Church as entirely separate from anything to do with "the bride".

To me the lines get blurred when two different subjects or even doctrines are merged into one in an attempt to espouse a "pet theory" and teach it to others.

One "for instance" that may help to explain my thought line is this: I hold to a position of the "one true church" as taught by scripture as being of  like faith and order as we see in scripture. For instance, I would not consider a Pentacostal, or any Protestant so-called "church" as legitimate. But I see this as a distinctly different subject from the Bride of Christ.

Just because I believe that there is a true church, does not, to my mind make me a Baptist Brider. The thought would never have entered my mind without reading or hearing the teaching.

This is why I said in my first reply that this was a non-issue for me, simply because I had never been exposed to it. If this became an issue in my church, or affected other Baptists that we fellowship with, then I would certainly oppose it.

Bro. Jim, thank you for taking the time to explain this. I truly appreciate it.

7 minutes ago, 1611mac said:

 I am amazed at some of the things I have  been exposed to in my church life.  And until I was exposed to them I didn't even existed! 

Amen to that! The internet provided even more "surprises" for me. Many times, I miss the days when I was ignorant of a lot of things...

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