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I've come across a booklet by a man named J M Carroll called "The Trail of Blood" about the history of Baptist churches.  Does anyone know of this booklet? Is the history recounted true and factual, or has it been embellished in some way?

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

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Just to make it patently clear. This booklet shows that the believer, saved by grace through faith, endued with the Holy Spirit, has NO connection to the Church of Rome, Romish church, RCC (or whatever they want to call themselves).

As example: For myself, I did not separate from the Romish church nor was I a member of a 'protestant' movement. I am an Independent Fundamental blood washed member of my local assembly which happens to be called an Independent Baptist Church.

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7 hours ago, The real Bob Hutton said:

I've come across a booklet by a man named J M Carroll called "The Trail of Blood" about the history of Baptist churches.  Does anyone know of this booklet? Is the history recounted true and factual, or has it been embellished in some way?

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

ToB, fails early on when it includes the Montanists in the line of Baptists.  They were a heretical charismatic cult who practised tongues and prophecy.  They were the first to believe that there were two kinds of sins, venal and mortal, later adopted by the Catholics.  After Tertullian joined them 

The Waldensians, also included claim their separation from Rome to the time of Pope Sylvester. Sylvester was Bishop of Rome at the time of Constantine. Sylvester seems to be a major part of their history as 800 years after they still refer back to him.(The Noble Lesson)  E B Elliott believes that they came from a line through Claude Bishop of Turin.  He also says that most of the most of the believers of the dark ages trace their teaching back to the evangelical doctrines of Augustine of Hippo.  

Augustine of Canterbury, who it is often said brought Christianity to England, (a lie, he brought Catholicism) also baptised, he baptised 10,000 in the River Swale, including the king of Kent, not to far from us, Bob.  He Converted the Saxons, but the Briton believers were persecuted.  The faith was probably brought to England in the time of the apostles.  

Justin Martyr was also a baptist.

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I read it years ago while still a young preacher in Texas. I was surrounded by a LOT of IFB pastors and preachers who were also militant Baptist Briders, and that little book was one of their text books. The fellows who recommended the book, and the way they used it, left a bad taste in my mouth. I never did re-visit the little book, though maybe I should now.

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2 hours ago, weary warrior said:

I read it years ago while still a young preacher in Texas. I was surrounded by a LOT of IFB pastors and preachers who were also militant Baptist Briders, and that little book was one of their text books. The fellows who recommended the book, and the way they used it, left a bad taste in my mouth. I never did re-visit the little book, though maybe I should now.

Weary warrior,

I understand your thoughts. I am not a Baptist Brider (much less a militant one). I would probably have been offended also if I was in your shoes at the time.

I am sorry to know that initially it left a bad taste in your mourth due to the spirit of the men who used the Trail of Blood improperly. Men are men. Even some of the Spirit led men in the IFB churches can be rude, uncaring, hard to deal with, and at times, are overly passionate. Sometimes we (I am including myself), forget the words of Paul the Apostle in 2 Timothy 2:24, "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient." The Trail of Blood is a teaching aid. As with any teaching aid, a person needs to learn how to use it properly and in the proper spirit.

It is my hope that you  do re-visit the Trail of Blood. As one carefully reads the Trail of Blood, besides the points that I mentioned above, a person can see that the church history outside of the Roman Catholic church is filled with persecution from inside the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic church (and some of the leaders of the Reformed churches afterward),  are simply fulfilling the natural effects of Galatians 4:29, "But as he that was born after the flesh persecuted him tha was born after the Spirit, even so it is now."   

Brethren,

Carroll is trying to point out that the men, and assemblies, were local, independent, and Baptist in distictive (as it was brought out in the "Condeminum" thread started by Brother Stafford), almost all of the non-denominational churches could not afford signs,could not write nor read, did not have denominational writers, and did not have the money that the denominational churches had to support schools, seminaries, printing presses, and denominational puppets in the churches. They were almost all Baptist in disctictives and maybe not in print.

Here is the link to, "The Compendium of Baptist History," thread by Brother Strafford.

Yes, a few of the men, and a few of the groups, that Carroll brought out in the Trail of Blood did have problems as Invicta pointed out. But, they were still independent of the Roman Catholic denominational machine and were persecuted; oftentimes to the death.

How many of us have been physically persecuted? Mobbed by religious fanatics? homes destroyed? lives ruined? publicly humiliated? slandered? Even to this day the brethren, and the groups listed in The Trail of Blood, in spite of the intense persecution they endured, is publicly slandered among the denominational machine sholars, writers, internet theologians, and 'church history' books. God will set the church history record straight in eternity.

Alan

 

Edited by Alan
spelling grammer (deleted two words 'when they'

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7 hours ago, Brother Stafford said:

I'm more of a hold in your hand, real paper book kind of fellow.

I would contact these folks first before ordering. Make sure it is the original little red pamphlet with the fold out...

Available as a printed booklet from: Ashland Avenue Baptist Church 163 N. Ashland Avenue Lexington, KY 40502 606-266-4341

Also, the link to the online pdf file without the fold out.

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6 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

I would contact these folks first before ordering. Make sure it is the original little red pamphlet with the fold out...

Available as a printed booklet from: Ashland Avenue Baptist Church 163 N. Ashland Avenue Lexington, KY 40502 606-266-4341

Also, the link to the online pdf file without the fold out.

I already placed my order.  I ordered this one: The Trail of Blood.

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10 hours ago, weary warrior said:

I read it years ago while still a young preacher in Texas. I was surrounded by a LOT of IFB pastors and preachers who were also militant Baptist Briders, and that little book was one of their text books. The fellows who recommended the book, and the way they used it, left a bad taste in my mouth. I never did re-visit the little book, though maybe I should now.

Pardon my ignorance but what, or who, are "Baptist Briders"?

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4 hours ago, The real Bob Hutton said:

Pardon my ignorance but what, or who, are "Baptist Briders"?

In short, Baptist Briders believe that only true Baptists will comprise the Bride of Christ and be seated at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. All other saved people aren't part of the Bride. Those other believers are called "the family of God", and they will be serve those seated during the Marriage Supper.

Edited by No Nicolaitans

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6 minutes ago, fastjav390 said:

It's Baptist Brider rubbish. In other words, John Wesley will be waiting on Billy Graham at the wedding feast.

I have ordered the book and have not yet read it.  Could you provide a quote, or quotes, from the book (preferably with page and chapter) that illustrates your conclusion that it is "Baptist Brider rubbish" please?  If that is the case, I would like to be informed.

Edited by Brother Stafford

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This whole Baptist Brider thing is a non-issue for me. In fact I had never even heard the word, "Brider" until joining OB. I am not sure it is even a word.

I do however have to wonder why this would even be an issue among Baptists. If you are a Baptist and firmly believe that only Baptists are the bride, what is the problem? You are in the bride.

But if you are not a Baptist, the so-called Baptist Brider" issue serves no other purpose than a point of contention and an issue to argue over.

Of one thing I am sure, The Lord knows who the bride is.

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Bro. Jim,

I know through personal experience (through helping an individual in the Philippines) that the Brider position is an issue. The Philippines...not the US.

The individual was pressured to be a "real Baptist". Only by the individual becoming a "real Baptist", would the Baptist Brider missionary in the Philippines give further help to this individual. Those who claimed to be Baptists...but weren't "real Baptists"...were looked down upon and frowned upon. To be a "real Baptist", one must accept their Brider position. If one didn't, they weren't a "real Baptist". 

It's an issue, because it promotes a doctrine. 

It you're not a "true Baptist", it does serve a purpose other than a point of contention and an issue to argue over.

It's an "I'm better than you" position. A "look at me" position. It's a position of pride. It says that "non-true Baptists" will be lesser than and will serve "true Baptists" in the future.

I thought we served Christ.

It paints a picture of the Marriage Supper (that isn't clearly given in scripture) and asserts that their position is the only correct position and doctrine. Perhaps not all Briders are prideful, but it is a prideful position when the rubber meets the road. 

I'm a Baptist. I'm a Baptist, because I believe that the Baptist "theology" is the closest to what I see in God's word. However, being a Baptist offers me nothing extra in and of itself. My future standing is based upon my acceptance of Christ as my Savior, and my future rewards are based upon my works here on earth...not whether I'm a Baptist or not. 

There is a free-online Independent Baptist Online College that holds the Brider position. The last time I checked, they were using some of David Cloud's videos in their free courses. I wonder if Mr. Cloud knows this since he opposes the Brider position? One of their tag-lines is that they are "real Baptists". They raised my eyebrows, so I contacted the man in charge. It took a series of several emails BEFORE he finally admitted to me that he was a Baptist Brider. This was a few years ago. I haven't checked to see if it's still in operation.

The Brider position is an issue, and they are spreading the issue. 

I wholeheartedly agree (that under ideal circumstances) church members should only get their teaching from their local church. Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in today. Their are no ideal circumstances that I'm aware of...and the internet, TV, and radio make it much too easy for church members to be influenced by unsound teaching. Add to that...missionaries who teach false doctrine and gather members into their churches. 

We need to reach as many people as we can with the truth of God's word...because others are reaching them too.

 

Edited by No Nicolaitans

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Anyone remember the free 4 year Baptist College (online)? Many of us thought they were briders because of the following...

"that it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership;  that baptism is to be performed under the authority and approval of one of the Lord’s churches (i.e. unapostated Baptist churches);  that those baptized differently than previously stated, should not be received into the membership, but instead should submit to scriptural baptism;  and further, that “open” baptism (non-Baptist and apostated Baptist) and “infant” baptism are to be wholly rejected"

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19 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Anyone remember the free 4 year Baptist College (online)? Many of us thought they were briders because of the following...

"that it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership;  that baptism is to be performed under the authority and approval of one of the Lord’s churches (i.e. unapostated Baptist churches);  that those baptized differently than previously stated, should not be received into the membership, but instead should submit to scriptural baptism;  and further, that “open” baptism (non-Baptist and apostated Baptist) and “infant” baptism are to be wholly rejected"

?

Is this in response to what I wrote, or is it separate? 

Here's the college that I referred to ....

http://www.biblecollegevideos.com/

 

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1 minute ago, Brother Stafford said:

Isn't that what NN was just talking about in the post immediately before that?

Yep...I would have to say it was. My apologies NN, I missed that...I suppose I need to pay attention if I'm going to keep up :)

 

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I've also heard Briders (yes, it's a very real word) claim that, while Baptists will be the only ones in the Bride, we don't know WHICH Baptists. So we can't be sure if we will be part of the Bride.

Proof that we can, indeed, make dumb statements part of our doctrine if we aren't careful.

 

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