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1 hour ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

 

Whoa, wait right there, hold up, reign in, halt ------    Did you just say that a moderator can take a hike, you'll do as you jolly well please and move on when YOU are ready to?????

Calm down, old chap.  I'm just showing how fallacious it is to make sweeping statements.  I don't care if people believe in Calvinism or not, it's a secondary issue and not worth calling people heretics over.

If it upsets shallow thinkers that much I'm happy to let it drop.

Kind regards

Bob

Oh, and by the way, I think you meant to say "rein in" not  "reign in", grammar and spelling are most important.

 

Edited by Bob Hutton
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You know, my observation of Calvinism is that a) it isn't learned from the Bible - it comes from the teaching of men - many books and 'much learning' - and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doc

OK, if Bro. Dave will not "rag on MacArthur" I will. I will also disagree with Bro. Dave where he said that MacArthur needs to be taken very carefully. I don't think he should be "taken" at all. MacAr

Deserves a double "like" in my opinion. ;)

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2 hours ago, Bob Hutton said:

No, I'm not moving on until we have established this question - did Spurgeon teach a damnable heresy?  If you answer "yes" you condemn one of the finest preachers that graced the western world.  If you answer "no" you concede my point that Calvinism IS a secondary issue.  Which is it to be? 

Bob,  taking into consideration that you are new to this board, I would like to take a moment to provide you with some helpful information that you should have read in the board guidelines before posting.

First of all there is a feature on these forums whereby members can determine the status of other members. An important feature is found in the left column, where you see a picture of the member.

The member you replied to is a moderator, as evidenced by the title under her name. Moderators are here to moderate, keep order and make sure that these boards operate according to the wishes of the owner of the boards.

We here at OB are not like other message boards where anything goes. The response you gave to Salyan, a moderator is totally unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Our board moderators are not only here most of the time, but they are active on the board, unlike many other message boards. They are mature Christians that moderate with a light hand even though they have a difficult job to do.

You sir, have openly defied two moderators with your reply that I quoted above. If a moderator tells you to "move it on", this is not a request or a suggestion that you can ignore at will.

Since you are new here I am not going to give you an official warning point against your status, but I do want this to serve as a warning that such behavior will not be tolerated. Salyan has instructed you to "move on" and if you do not comply, you will be moved on without further notice.

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12 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bob,  taking into consideration that you are new to this board, I would like to take a moment to provide you with some helpful information that you should have read in the board guidelines before posting.

First of all there is a feature on these forums whereby members can determine the status of other members. An important feature is found in the left column, where you see a picture of the member.

The member you replied to is a moderator, as evidenced by the title under her name. Moderators are here to moderate, keep order and make sure that these boards operate according to the wishes of the owner of the boards.

We here at OB are not like other message boards where anything goes. The response you gave to Salyan, a moderator is totally unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Our board moderators are not only here most of the time, but they are active on the board, unlike many other message boards. They are mature Christians that moderate with a light hand even though they have a difficult job to do.

You sir, have openly defied two moderators with your reply that I quoted above. If a moderator tells you to "move it on", this is not a request or a suggestion that you can ignore at will.

Since you are new here I am not going to give you an official warning point against your status, but I do want this to serve as a warning that such behavior will not be tolerated. Salyan has instructed you to "move on" and if you do not comply, you will be moved on without further notice.

You obviously haven't read the last post in this thread, so I'll repeat it  "If it upsets shallow thinkers so much I'm happy to let it drop".  That should have been sufficient for you to know that i'm not pursuing the subject.

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Total lack of respect for the moderators.........

How about an apology to the moderators.

Salyan, OFP, and Jim are moderators, and the way you have spoken to each of them is disrespectful.

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50 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Total lack of respect for the moderators.........

How about an apology to the moderators.

Salyan, OFP, and Jim are moderators, and the way you have spoken to each of them is disrespectful.

How about you issuing apologies to Dr Macarthur for calling him "poison"?

I'm happy to let the matter drop as I can see that tempers are rising.

Kind regards

Bob

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39 minutes ago, Bob Hutton said:

How about you issuing apologies to Dr Macarthur for calling him "poison"?

I'm happy to let the matter drop as I can see that tempers are rising.

Kind regards

Bob

I issued a just warning against a false teacher - you disrespected the authority of this forum.

Which of these is more in line with Scripture?

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1 minute ago, DaveW said:

I issued a just warning against a false teacher - you disrespected the authority of this forum.

Which of these is more in line with Scripture?

Dear bother in Christ,

I am happy to let this matter drop as I can see that some people are getting rather worked up.

All I will state is that, before you accuse me of disrespect, you should have a good, hard look at the comments you made at the outset.

On a lighter note,one hopes you will be in better temper later in the year when the Aussies regain the ashes.

Kind regards

Bob

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38 minutes ago, Bob Hutton said:

Dear bother in Christ,

I am happy to let this matter drop as I can see that some people are getting rather worked up.

All I will state is that, before you accuse me of disrespect, you should have a good, hard look at the comments you made at the outset.

On a lighter note,one hopes you will be in better temper later in the year when the Aussies regain the ashes.

Kind regards

Bob

 

42 minutes ago, DaveW said:

I issued a just warning against a false teacher - you disrespected the authority of this forum.

Which of these is more in line with Scripture?

 

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1 hour ago, Salyan said:

You know, my observation of Calvinism is that a) it isn't learned from the Bible - it comes from the teaching of men - many books and 'much learning' - and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doctrine and attracts those who are drawn to intellectualism. It often seems to become a point of pride - "see how much more study/learning I have done" or "see how much more I've thought about it than all you peons". Your statement above about 'shallow thinkers' really does reflect this observation, as it displays this as a point of pride in your life (you obviously think that you are a much deeper thinker than anyone who rejects MacArthur or Calvinism).

Oh, and I am going to answer a question posed above. You asked if I considered Spurgeon to preach a damnable heresy, and said that if I said yes, I'd condemn one of the greatest preachers of the Western world (thus attempting to negate my statement by the supposed position of the man). I haven't studied Spurgeon much, so I really can't speak to what he did or did not preach. However, if he did teach the 'doctrines of grace' (irresistible grace, total depravity, unconditional election, etc.), than yes, he did preach damnable heresy. And you know what? If he preached such heresy, then perhaps he was not one of the 'greatest preachers of the Western world'. Because the popularity of a man does not define the truth of his teaching.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal. 1:8
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. James 2:1
For their is no respect of persons with God. Romans 2:11

 

Calm down dear, you clearly can't cope with someone daring to question your pathetic shallowness, silly girl.

1 hour ago, DaveW said:

Deserves a double "like" in my opinion. ;)

Study the Bible properly - you silly boy!

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52 minutes ago, Salyan said:

and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doctrine and attracts those who are drawn to intellectualism.

That has been my observation all along too. Since becoming aware of Calvinism, the Doctrines of Grace, Reformed Theology, etc. and after studying it to some extent, my conclusion was that it appealed to one's intellect and was a source of pride; in which, it gives somewhat of a worldly credence to Christianity in the eyes of those (in the world) who look on Christians as unlearned and/or simpletons who can't think for themselves in this grand age of enlightenment that we live in. No offence intended, and I won't go as far as to say that all Calvinists are that way, but from what I've studied and seen, that is what the stalwarts of Calvinism lean towards.

I don't care how much studying I've done...or anyone else has done. The greatest and deepest truth that I've ever learned is this...

Jesus loves me, this I know. For the Bible tells me so.

I'll take that over Supraspectacularantisanctimonialbipartisantheographysuperstudieduptothegillsism any day. :)

Just now, john martin said:

Calm down dear, you clearly can't cope with someone daring to question your pathetic shallowness, silly girl.

Ban him now.

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22 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

That has been my observation all along too. Since becoming aware of Calvinism, the Doctrines of Grace, Reformed Theology, etc. and after studying it to some extent, my conclusion was that it appealed to one's intellect and was a source of pride; in which, it gives somewhat of a worldly credence to Christianity in the eyes of those (in the world) who look on Christians as unlearned and/or simpletons who can't think for themselves in this grand age of enlightenment that we live in. No offence intended, and I won't go as far as to say that all Calvinists are that way, but from what I've studied and seen, that is what the stalwarts of Calvinism lean towards.

I don't care how much studying I've done...or anyone else has done. The greatest and deepest truth that I've ever learned is this...

Jesus loves me, this I know. For the Bible tells me so.

I'll take that over Supraspectacularantisanctimonialbipartisantheographysuperstudieduptothegillsism any day. :)

I do agree with this and Salyan's original comment, although I'll also say that I think I have seen in 'reformed' writings and conversations with Calvinists a genuine desire to answer questions that naturally occur to all* of us, such as why it is that some people respond to the Gospel with saving faith and others don't.

I also wonder whether the whole of systematic theology could similarly be accused, including formulations of doctrines I believe in, such as the Trinity and substitutionary atonement. Some of them I feel quite proud about if I even manage to spell them right.

*A contextualised generalisation referring to the totality of the writer's own interactions with persons online and in real life and not in any way a statement or implication about a wider group of people nor a universal claim about humankind.

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Let's see...... a new member who, in his first post fully aligns with the Calivinst posts before him. It smacks of "bringing in the reinforcements" from another board.

Fortunately folks like this end up shooting themselves in the foot all by themselves. They will eventually expose their agenda for what it is. This is the real "shallow thinking."

It's interesting that the new guy uses the same borderline sarcastic and patronizing grammar as the person before him.

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45 minutes ago, Alimantado said:

although I'll also say that I think I have seen in 'reformed' writings and conversations with Calvinists a genuine desire to answer questions that naturally occur to all* of us, such as why it is that some people respond to the Gospel with saving faith and others don't.

 

I believe it comes down to whether a person has been genuinely convicted of their sinful state and need of salvation...and whether they are willing to accept their need of salvation in regard to their sinful state and ultimate eternal destination. Some may be convicted, but they are unwilling to accept salvation. In my own personal experience, it took more than once to "convict" me enough to be saved. I didn't respond the first time that I knew I needed salvation. I knew that I needed to be saved, but I rejected it because of my own sinful desires. Some folks aren't willing to give up their selfishness in order to be saved. 

51 minutes ago, Alimantado said:

*A contextualised generalisation referring to the totality of the writer's own interactions with persons online and in real life and not in any way a statement or implication about a wider group of people nor a universal claim about humankind.

...and that's why I said that I wouldn't say that all Calvinists are like that. :) I learned long ago to stop generalizing people...but I still fail at times. :(

46 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

It smacks of "bringing in the reinforcements" from another board.

My thoughts exactly...although, to give the benefit of the doubt...he/she could be a "watcher" who hasn't registered before, and he/she decided to get in while the getting was good. LOL! However, it's just too coincidental.

In regard to MacArthur, I find it interesting...and according to his own words...unless he has recanted since I watched the video...he has no testimony of salvation. His "testimony" is that he doesn't recall that there was ever a time that he was saved...just that he's always believed. 

...and no, I won't take the time to find the video. I have no desire to. If anyone wants to see it, find it yourself and see for yourself...that's the only way you'll accept it in most cases. I don't mean to be unkind or unwilling to provide proof of my claims, but I just don't have any desire to. 

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2 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

...and that's why I said that I wouldn't say that all Calvinists are like that. :) I learned long ago to stop generalizing people...but I still fail at times. :(

That smallprint was just a joke about another thread, NN. :)

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3 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Let's see...... a new member who, in his first post fully aligns with the Calivinst posts before him. It smacks of "bringing in the reinforcements" from another board.

..........

I just said to my son last night that it looked like we were having our "annual influx of Calvinists".

It does seem as though they organise at a board to come here and "have some fun" every so often.

I find it funny how there is often one who takes "the smiling assassin" role, who thinks that they can say anything they like as long as they start and finish with nice words.

I found that with real life calvinists too......

The other thing that I find interesting is that when a good man falls to Calvinism they often leave other Bible doctrines and godly positions when try to find a Calvinist church.

For instance, I have known some who end up going to Presby churches even though it follows infant Baptism, and/or uses modern corrupt versions (you know, versions that remove salvation from the picture: see Acts 8:37 - or not if you have an MV).

I have always been amazed at what men will give up in their pursuit of Calvinsm.

 

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6 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Let's see...... a new member who, in his first post fully aligns with the Calivinst posts before him. It smacks of "bringing in the reinforcements" from another board.

Fortunately folks like this end up shooting themselves in the foot all by themselves. They will eventually expose their agenda for what it is. This is the real "shallow thinking."

It's interesting that the new guy uses the same borderline sarcastic and patronizing grammar as the person before him.

I didn't wait. The guy is banned. 

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11 hours ago, DaveW said:

I find it funny how there is often one who takes "the smiling assassin" role, who thinks that they can say anything they like as long as they start and finish with nice words.

I have been served a Complement Sandwich a few times by mid-level managers. Worst technique ever! For my educated Calvinist friends who use this approach, It just so happens I read this article in the "Harvard Business Review" the other day (i'm edumecated!) that explains the problems with it and a better way: The “Sandwich Approach” Undermines Your Feedback  https://hbr.org/2013/04/the-sandwich-approach-undermin

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On 2/22/2017 at 5:32 PM, DaveW said:

Calvinism is not a "secondary issue" at all.

In Calvinism salvation is through the choice of God - in the Bible salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

I really hope you're not implying that Calvinists don't believe salvation is by grace through faith in Christ because, if you are, that would be bearing false witness. 

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23 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

I really hope you're not implying that Calvinists don't believe salvation is by grace through faith in Christ because, if you are, that would be bearing false witness. 

I really hope you have not joined this forum to call a member a liar - because that would be bearing false witness..... among other things.

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9 minutes ago, DaveW said:

I really hope you have not joined this forum to call a member a liar - because that would be bearing false witness..... among other things.

I didn't call you a liar. I said that implying that Calvinists do not believe or preach salvation is by grace through faith in Christ would be bearing false witness as they absolutely do believe and clearly preach that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ. 

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Hey bro,

I believe it's pretty much like Brother Dave said. In Calvinist belief, God "enables" a sinner who is totally Unable (The "T") who has NO RESISTANCE to the "Irresistable grace". That is not grace through faith; it's sortof like a remote control robot or something I guess. Furthermore, I believe that attributing "Tulip" theology to our God, IS bearing false witness against Him! And I can't afford a D-28; I play a BR160. :)

Edited by heartstrings
Sorry, that was supposed to be a "U"
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53 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

I didn't call you a liar. I said that implying that Calvinists do not believe or preach salvation is by grace through faith in Christ would be bearing false witness as they absolutely do believe and clearly preach that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ. 

Hi...welcome to the forum. 

Do you believe that God controls all aspects of everything? 

I used to have a classical Takamine...best guitar that I ever had. I no longer play though.

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6 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Hi...welcome to the forum. 

Do you believe that God controls all aspects of everything? 

I used to have a classical Takamine...best guitar that I ever had. I no longer play though.

Nice

yeah, where's my manners. Welcome to the forum D-28

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8 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Hi...welcome to the forum. 

Do you believe that God controls all aspects of everything? 

I used to have a classical Takamine...best guitar that I ever had. I no longer play though.

Thanks.

Yes. God is sovereign over everything. 

I'm pretty big so I like a big heavy guitar. I like Takamine but they're a little too light for me. 

 

4 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

Nice

yeah, where's my manners. Welcome to the forum D-28

Thanks

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22 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

In Calvinist belief, God "enables" a sinner who is totally enable (The "T") who has NO RESISTANCE to the "Irresistable grace". That is not grace through faith; it's sort of like a remote control robot or something I guess. Furthermore, I believe that attributing "Tulip" theology to our God, IS bearing false witness against Him! And I can't afford a D-28; I play a BR160. :)

The Calvinist would say that although God must regenerate a person before they can exercise faith that it's still their faith. 

I play a BR5-49

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3 hours ago, D-28 Player said:

The Calvinist would say that although God must regenerate a person before they can exercise faith that it's still their faith. 

I play a BR5-49

At this point a study on regeneration would be instructive.

I have a Fenix D-12M.

Edited by DaveW
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14 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

Thanks.

Yes. God is sovereign over everything. 

I'm pretty big so I like a big heavy guitar. I like Takamine but they're a little too light for me. 

To be honest, I guess I'm not enough of a guitar guru to know whether a guitar is too light or not. LOL! I used to just appreciate the sound and whether the strings were easily pressed against the frets (or not). Playing the Takamine (that I had) was like my fingers were placing a feather on a placid lake. How's that for an illustration! LOL! :) Still, to own a Martin would be wonderful.

Thank you for your answer. If I could show you (from the Bible) that God doesn't control every action of man, would you be willing to accept it?

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5 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

To be honest, I guess I'm not enough of a guitar guru to know whether a guitar is too light or not. LOL! I used to just appreciate the sound and whether the strings were easily pressed against the frets (or not). Playing the Takamine (that I had) was like my fingers were placing a feather on a placid lake. How's that for an illustration! LOL! :) Still, to own a Martin would be wonderful.

Thank you for your answer. If I could show you (from the Bible) that God doesn't control every action of man, would you be willing to accept it?

As for the guitar it's all about what is comfortable for you 

I didn't say that God controls man I just said that God is sovereign over everything 

 

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