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MacArthur

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8 minutes ago, Alimantado said:

Still, now that you have disagreed, I've gone and posted up your own words, so no harm no foul eh? I'll just have to accept that I don't have a clue what you're saying--since you've told me I'm wrong. Hopefully Bob will understand better.

No need to be like that.....

I stand by what I wrote, and I disagree with your explanation of what I wrote.

I doubt Bob will understand it, but I am sure he will attack it and smile while he does.

I was not really interested in becoming the subject of discussion, especially since this was supposed be an explanation if my warning against MacArthur.

Bob has chosen to ignore my initial post and go on the attack, making this about Calvinism and ignoring any discussion about MacArthur while accusing me of treating MacArthur unfairly.

I am just not interested in all this muck.

And people asked me why I stopped posting recently.........

EXACTLY how much false doctrine is enough to warrant a warning such as the one I posted in the original discussion, or even the listed points in my op here?

And why has this become about me?

MacArthur promotes the five listed points in the op which are ALL UNBIBLICAL.

That is my warning, and if you don't think they are unbiblical, or you wish to follow his teachings, then I have warned and my job is done. Chew carefully, and don't whine to me when you start to feel the effects. 

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4 minutes ago, DaveW said:

No need to be like that.....

I stand by what I wrote, and I disagree with your explanation of what I wrote.

I doubt Bob will understand it, but I am sure he will attack it and smile while he does.

I was not really interested in becoming the subject of discussion, especially since this was supposed be an explanation if my warning against MacArthur.

Bob has chosen to ignore my initial post and go on the attack, making this about Calvinism and ignoring any discussion about MacArthur while accusing me of treating MacArthur unfairly.

I am just not interested in all this muck.

And people asked me why I stopped posting recently.........

EXACTLY how much false doctrine is enough to warrant a warning such as the one I posted in the original discussion, or even the listed points in my op here?

And why has this become about me?

MacArthur promotes the five listed points in the op which are ALL UNBIBLICAL.

That is my warning, and if you don't think they are unbiblical, or you wish to follow his teachings, then I have warned and my job is done. Chew carefully, and don't whine to me when you start to feel the effects. 

You and Bob started talking about whether Calvinism was a secondary issue or not--your choice.

At that point I saw the convo and felt like chiming in with my experience of how it is not a secondary issue to many on here, so I did. In doing so I happened to mention you (though not just you).

You then disagreed with how I represented you, so I posted up your own words, hoping that would settle that.

You then questioned my motive ("If you had it ready to fire, why did you not just post it up?"), so I responded to that too.

Drama over, hopefully.

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Bob, the Bible says to mark those who bring teaching contrary to the faith (my paraphrase). That is what Dave & Jim are doing. Instead of focusing on your perception of their words as abusive (which, btw, they're not), why don't you examine the allegations against Scripture and see whether they don't have something?

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16 minutes ago, Salyan said:

Bob, the Bible says to mark those who bring teaching contrary to the faith (my paraphrase). That is what Dave & Jim are doing. Instead of focusing on your perception of their words as abusive (which, btw, they're not), why don't you examine the allegations against Scripture and see whether they don't have something?

You have missed the point.  If people wish to disagree with Calvinism that's fine, I did for many years.  However, saying that people are teaching poison because they are Calvinists is ridiculous.  Do people who make this allegation really believe that C H Spurgeon taught poison?

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1 hour ago, Salyan said:

No, actually, it's not (ridiculous, that is). Calvinism is a damnable heresy, and as such, it is a poison.

I'm going to ask that you move on from this point.

No, I'm not moving on until we have established this question - did Spurgeon teach a damnable heresy?  If you answer "yes" you condemn one of the finest preachers that graced the western world.  If you answer "no" you concede my point that Calvinism IS a secondary issue.  Which is it to be? 

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Men or Christ is always the real issue in these debates.

Remember the words God gave us through Paul: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" Don't ever be of a man for any accomplishment or publication. And yes, if a person follows their writings, purchases their writings and defends their writings - they are of that man.

TULIP cannot be found in the Word of God, it can only be learned through men's writings.

Regardless of which man teaches calvinism, our only goal in this life is to be like Christ. That is the Scriptural result of the new birth and is a huge part of the Gospel.

Now if our goal is to be like macarthur, spurgeon or anyone else than keep studying their writings by all means. But and this is the point I pray is understood: If our goal is to be like Christ; stick with the Bible only, focus on the NT Gospels first to grasp all things whatsoever He taught His disciples, dump the confusing merchandise of men, start over again and let's saturate ourselves only in the Word. 

Whatever our "goal" in this life is - will settle the matter of our salvation. If we have any other goals "great or small, religious or otherwise" we must revisit the matter of our souls.  

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7 hours ago, Salyan said:

No, actually, it's not (ridiculous, that is). Calvinism is a damnable heresy, and as such, it is a poison.

I'm going to ask that you move on from this point.

 

5 hours ago, Bob Hutton said:

No, I'm not moving on until we have established this question - did Spurgeon teach a damnable heresy?  If you answer "yes" you condemn one of the finest preachers that graced the western world.  If you answer "no" you concede my point that Calvinism IS a secondary issue.  Which is it to be? 

Whoa, wait right there, hold up, rein in, halt ------    Did you just say that a moderator can take a hike, you'll do as you jolly well please and move on when YOU are ready to?????

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According to Spurgeon's own words, he tried to believe BOTH views, but evidently did not understand the scriptures completely. He figured that the two "truths" would be reconciled somehow in eternity. But God is not the author of confusion.  When I got saved, I didn't even know the name "Spurgeon"; didn't need to. . I believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. I trusted in His word. I believe the answers to these questions are in "the volume of the Book" and I have studied this for myself. I trust what the Bible says. Furthermore, being indwelled with the Spirit, I know the Voice of the Shepherd: I know not the voice of "Calvinism".  This verse just came to mind last night as I was driving home...

Proverbs 18:1Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom.

I don't know everything that verse means but, I believe it applies to growing in knowledge as a Christian AND I believe it applies to salvation. You have to "desire" it. If you want to be saved, God ALREADY "desires" you FIRST and He's willing and waiting to save you. But YOU have to desire Him and when you do, you will "separate yourself", in your heart, from sin and self and come to Jesus. God will not make you do it. I can only "speak what I know" to be true in my own life.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/adrianwarnock/2010/12/giving-spurgeon-the-last-word-on-arminianism-and-calvinism/

Edited by heartstrings

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1 hour ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

 

Whoa, wait right there, hold up, reign in, halt ------    Did you just say that a moderator can take a hike, you'll do as you jolly well please and move on when YOU are ready to?????

Calm down, old chap.  I'm just showing how fallacious it is to make sweeping statements.  I don't care if people believe in Calvinism or not, it's a secondary issue and not worth calling people heretics over.

If it upsets shallow thinkers that much I'm happy to let it drop.

Kind regards

Bob

Oh, and by the way, I think you meant to say "rein in" not  "reign in", grammar and spelling are most important.

 

Edited by Bob Hutton

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2 hours ago, Bob Hutton said:

No, I'm not moving on until we have established this question - did Spurgeon teach a damnable heresy?  If you answer "yes" you condemn one of the finest preachers that graced the western world.  If you answer "no" you concede my point that Calvinism IS a secondary issue.  Which is it to be? 

Bob,  taking into consideration that you are new to this board, I would like to take a moment to provide you with some helpful information that you should have read in the board guidelines before posting.

First of all there is a feature on these forums whereby members can determine the status of other members. An important feature is found in the left column, where you see a picture of the member.

The member you replied to is a moderator, as evidenced by the title under her name. Moderators are here to moderate, keep order and make sure that these boards operate according to the wishes of the owner of the boards.

We here at OB are not like other message boards where anything goes. The response you gave to Salyan, a moderator is totally unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Our board moderators are not only here most of the time, but they are active on the board, unlike many other message boards. They are mature Christians that moderate with a light hand even though they have a difficult job to do.

You sir, have openly defied two moderators with your reply that I quoted above. If a moderator tells you to "move it on", this is not a request or a suggestion that you can ignore at will.

Since you are new here I am not going to give you an official warning point against your status, but I do want this to serve as a warning that such behavior will not be tolerated. Salyan has instructed you to "move on" and if you do not comply, you will be moved on without further notice.

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12 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bob,  taking into consideration that you are new to this board, I would like to take a moment to provide you with some helpful information that you should have read in the board guidelines before posting.

First of all there is a feature on these forums whereby members can determine the status of other members. An important feature is found in the left column, where you see a picture of the member.

The member you replied to is a moderator, as evidenced by the title under her name. Moderators are here to moderate, keep order and make sure that these boards operate according to the wishes of the owner of the boards.

We here at OB are not like other message boards where anything goes. The response you gave to Salyan, a moderator is totally unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Our board moderators are not only here most of the time, but they are active on the board, unlike many other message boards. They are mature Christians that moderate with a light hand even though they have a difficult job to do.

You sir, have openly defied two moderators with your reply that I quoted above. If a moderator tells you to "move it on", this is not a request or a suggestion that you can ignore at will.

Since you are new here I am not going to give you an official warning point against your status, but I do want this to serve as a warning that such behavior will not be tolerated. Salyan has instructed you to "move on" and if you do not comply, you will be moved on without further notice.

You obviously haven't read the last post in this thread, so I'll repeat it  "If it upsets shallow thinkers so much I'm happy to let it drop".  That should have been sufficient for you to know that i'm not pursuing the subject.

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Total lack of respect for the moderators.........

How about an apology to the moderators.

Salyan, OFP, and Jim are moderators, and the way you have spoken to each of them is disrespectful.

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50 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Total lack of respect for the moderators.........

How about an apology to the moderators.

Salyan, OFP, and Jim are moderators, and the way you have spoken to each of them is disrespectful.

How about you issuing apologies to Dr Macarthur for calling him "poison"?

I'm happy to let the matter drop as I can see that tempers are rising.

Kind regards

Bob

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39 minutes ago, Bob Hutton said:

How about you issuing apologies to Dr Macarthur for calling him "poison"?

I'm happy to let the matter drop as I can see that tempers are rising.

Kind regards

Bob

I issued a just warning against a false teacher - you disrespected the authority of this forum.

Which of these is more in line with Scripture?

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1 minute ago, DaveW said:

I issued a just warning against a false teacher - you disrespected the authority of this forum.

Which of these is more in line with Scripture?

Dear bother in Christ,

I am happy to let this matter drop as I can see that some people are getting rather worked up.

All I will state is that, before you accuse me of disrespect, you should have a good, hard look at the comments you made at the outset.

On a lighter note,one hopes you will be in better temper later in the year when the Aussies regain the ashes.

Kind regards

Bob

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38 minutes ago, Bob Hutton said:

Dear bother in Christ,

I am happy to let this matter drop as I can see that some people are getting rather worked up.

All I will state is that, before you accuse me of disrespect, you should have a good, hard look at the comments you made at the outset.

On a lighter note,one hopes you will be in better temper later in the year when the Aussies regain the ashes.

Kind regards

Bob

 

42 minutes ago, DaveW said:

I issued a just warning against a false teacher - you disrespected the authority of this forum.

Which of these is more in line with Scripture?

 

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1 hour ago, Salyan said:

You know, my observation of Calvinism is that a) it isn't learned from the Bible - it comes from the teaching of men - many books and 'much learning' - and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doctrine and attracts those who are drawn to intellectualism. It often seems to become a point of pride - "see how much more study/learning I have done" or "see how much more I've thought about it than all you peons". Your statement above about 'shallow thinkers' really does reflect this observation, as it displays this as a point of pride in your life (you obviously think that you are a much deeper thinker than anyone who rejects MacArthur or Calvinism).

Oh, and I am going to answer a question posed above. You asked if I considered Spurgeon to preach a damnable heresy, and said that if I said yes, I'd condemn one of the greatest preachers of the Western world (thus attempting to negate my statement by the supposed position of the man). I haven't studied Spurgeon much, so I really can't speak to what he did or did not preach. However, if he did teach the 'doctrines of grace' (irresistible grace, total depravity, unconditional election, etc.), than yes, he did preach damnable heresy. And you know what? If he preached such heresy, then perhaps he was not one of the 'greatest preachers of the Western world'. Because the popularity of a man does not define the truth of his teaching.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal. 1:8
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. James 2:1
For their is no respect of persons with God. Romans 2:11

 

Calm down dear, you clearly can't cope with someone daring to question your pathetic shallowness, silly girl.

1 hour ago, DaveW said:

Deserves a double "like" in my opinion. ;)

Study the Bible properly - you silly boy!

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52 minutes ago, Salyan said:

and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doctrine and attracts those who are drawn to intellectualism.

That has been my observation all along too. Since becoming aware of Calvinism, the Doctrines of Grace, Reformed Theology, etc. and after studying it to some extent, my conclusion was that it appealed to one's intellect and was a source of pride; in which, it gives somewhat of a worldly credence to Christianity in the eyes of those (in the world) who look on Christians as unlearned and/or simpletons who can't think for themselves in this grand age of enlightenment that we live in. No offence intended, and I won't go as far as to say that all Calvinists are that way, but from what I've studied and seen, that is what the stalwarts of Calvinism lean towards.

I don't care how much studying I've done...or anyone else has done. The greatest and deepest truth that I've ever learned is this...

Jesus loves me, this I know. For the Bible tells me so.

I'll take that over Supraspectacularantisanctimonialbipartisantheographysuperstudieduptothegillsism any day. :)

Just now, john martin said:

Calm down dear, you clearly can't cope with someone daring to question your pathetic shallowness, silly girl.

Ban him now.

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22 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

That has been my observation all along too. Since becoming aware of Calvinism, the Doctrines of Grace, Reformed Theology, etc. and after studying it to some extent, my conclusion was that it appealed to one's intellect and was a source of pride; in which, it gives somewhat of a worldly credence to Christianity in the eyes of those (in the world) who look on Christians as unlearned and/or simpletons who can't think for themselves in this grand age of enlightenment that we live in. No offence intended, and I won't go as far as to say that all Calvinists are that way, but from what I've studied and seen, that is what the stalwarts of Calvinism lean towards.

I don't care how much studying I've done...or anyone else has done. The greatest and deepest truth that I've ever learned is this...

Jesus loves me, this I know. For the Bible tells me so.

I'll take that over Supraspectacularantisanctimonialbipartisantheographysuperstudieduptothegillsism any day. :)

I do agree with this and Salyan's original comment, although I'll also say that I think I have seen in 'reformed' writings and conversations with Calvinists a genuine desire to answer questions that naturally occur to all* of us, such as why it is that some people respond to the Gospel with saving faith and others don't.

I also wonder whether the whole of systematic theology could similarly be accused, including formulations of doctrines I believe in, such as the Trinity and substitutionary atonement. Some of them I feel quite proud about if I even manage to spell them right.

*A contextualised generalisation referring to the totality of the writer's own interactions with persons online and in real life and not in any way a statement or implication about a wider group of people nor a universal claim about humankind.

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Let's see...... a new member who, in his first post fully aligns with the Calivinst posts before him. It smacks of "bringing in the reinforcements" from another board.

Fortunately folks like this end up shooting themselves in the foot all by themselves. They will eventually expose their agenda for what it is. This is the real "shallow thinking."

It's interesting that the new guy uses the same borderline sarcastic and patronizing grammar as the person before him.

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