Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Recommended Posts

OK so here's the problem,  I have an issue talking to people in my church about my believes because of persecution. I was born and raised Southern Baptist and that is what I am today but for 10 years in between now and then I was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. I did several studies throughout my time there and before a joined on verses in the Bible that link to their beliefs. Everyone that I know in the Baptist Church has said that Jesus was pre-ordained to save us from our sins but no one wants to take knowledge that He was there before the world was formed. Also the fact that Genesis states there was more than one dirty speaking in the garden to Adam and Eve. It states Man has now become like us. We shall make man in our image. Who is God talking to if Jesus wasn't born yet? The Bible if you look up the names of Jesus in Hebrew states that Jesus was the one who Moses spoke to on mount  sinai.  And if God is the same yesterday today and forever and he spoke to several prophets of the Old Testament when they were children why would he not speak to a seven-year-old boy in this day and age who asked for guidance? There are several other key references in the book of Mormon that can be traced back to the Bible. How can an uneducated boy write a powerful 500 page book that moved enough hearts to make people leave their homes around the world and move to Utah by foot at the risk of death and starvation? Jesus even said in the New Testament when the disciples didn't know what to name the primitive church He told them to name it after Him because if it's named after a man then it's a mans church. If it's named after Jesus the son of God it's His church and His doctrine which all Christian's should follow. How exactly is it wrong. Please can someone who is a minister and actually educated in the true ways of the LDS church and not just listened to a few sermons telling how it's wrong but actually went to the horses mouth and prayed tell me what I should do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DougA said:

Everyone that I know in the Baptist Church has said that Jesus was pre-ordained to save us from our sins but no one wants to take knowledge that He was there before the world was formed. Also the fact that Genesis states there was more than one dirty speaking in the garden to Adam and Eve. It states Man has now become like us. We shall make man in our image. Who is God talking to if Jesus wasn't born yet?

Genesis 1:26 refers to the Trinity.  John 1:1-4 teaches us that Jesus was there in the beginning of creation and nothing was made without him.

Welcome to the forum by the way, have you formally introduced yourself and shared your testimony?  Forgive me if I have missed it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is just an observation, it does not speak to the subject at hand. many times we confuse issues and others when we say things like, "Jesus was there in the beginning". I am not picking on you Swath, just trying to correct a common misconception.

There was no Jesus until he was born in Bethlehem. Before his incarnation he was The Word. "In the beginning was The Word".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

??? I'm not familiar with such a reference in the New Testament.

It is probably from the book of Mormon rather than the bible.

I looked on mormon.org and couldn't find any mention of Joseph Smith, however I did find the following:

"In the latter days, prophets continue to caution and advise all people. Recent counsel addresses social issues such as marriage and family relationships, practical matters such as education and financial prudence, and spiritual subjects that help us overcome personal trials and find greater confidence in our faith."

This actually contradicts the bible because we read:

1 ¶  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Hebrews 1:1-2.

In the past God spoke in many ways by prophets, but in these last days He has spoken by His Son, The Lord Jesus.  All we need to know of what His son has spoken, we find in the scriptures, therefore there is no need of prophets in these last days, or latter days.


 

Edited by Invicta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith

It seems that Smith as about  15 or 18 when he said he had his vision.  Even if he was seven, there are other accounts in history of children that age or younger who were considered prophets.  In the heyday of Irvinism in Enland and Scotland in the early 1830s, there was a case in theh Irvingite church in Oxford of a boy and girl, twins, aged 6 to 7, who became prophets and ruled the household declaring many of the items in the house, "Babylonish" including their father's valuable library which was destroyed.  Eventually these chidren declared that marriage was sinful.  This was so obviously the work of a false spirit that the childre were called and told that the scripture test to try the spirits woluld be given.  The children screamed "Ye may try the spirits in adults, but not in children".  This was mentioned by sveral writers about that time and some years later Caroline Fox mentioned them in her journal. It seems no one thought to try the spirits in Joseph Smith.  

In the late 1600s in the South of France there were people known as Camisards.  They were known over here as the French Prophets. Amongst them were a number of children of all ages including a child of  14 months who had never spoken a word, nor could go it alone "spoke distinctly in French with a voice like a small child , but loud enough to be well heard all over the room; it exhorted  like others in that condition, to works of repentence,"  Testimony of Mathew Boisier of Dauphiny, pp 9,10, A Cry from the Dessert  by  Maximillian Misson.  1707, published in French and also in English.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, DougA said:

OK so here's the problem,  I have an issue talking to people in my church about my believes because of persecution. I was born and raised Southern Baptist and that is what I am today but for 10 years in between now and then I was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. I did several studies throughout my time there and before a joined on verses in the Bible that link to their beliefs. Everyone that I know in the Baptist Church has said that Jesus was pre-ordained to save us from our sins but no one wants to take knowledge that He was there before the world was formed. Also the fact that Genesis states there was more than one dirty speaking in the garden to Adam and Eve. It states Man has now become like us. We shall make man in our image. Who is God talking to if Jesus wasn't born yet? The Bible if you look up the names of Jesus in Hebrew states that Jesus was the one who Moses spoke to on mount  sinai.  And if God is the same yesterday today and forever and he spoke to several prophets of the Old Testament when they were children why would he not speak to a seven-year-old boy in this day and age who asked for guidance? There are several other key references in the book of Mormon that can be traced back to the Bible. How can an uneducated boy write a powerful 500 page book that moved enough hearts to make people leave their homes around the world and move to Utah by foot at the risk of death and starvation? Jesus even said in the New Testament when the disciples didn't know what to name the primitive church He told them to name it after Him because if it's named after a man then it's a mans church. If it's named after Jesus the son of God it's His church and His doctrine which all Christian's should follow. How exactly is it wrong. Please can someone who is a minister and actually educated in the true ways of the LDS church and not just listened to a few sermons telling how it's wrong but actually went to the horses mouth and prayed tell me what I should do. 

You seem to be a little all over the place. Maybe if you can list your questions or beliefs point by point it would be easier to follow.

I too was once a Mormon. Joseph Smith plagiarized much of what he wrote. This is one reason the LDS church uses the KJV (or NKJV) because of the similarity with the Book of Mormon. 

Also, God was speaking to the pre-incarnate Son of God  in Genesis but Jesus was not born physically until the virgin Mary.

24 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Depending on whether it's true or not, and If memory serves me correctly, Smith didn't actually do the translating. He (with the use of some very questionable practices) verbally dictated it to his wife, and she's the one who wrote it down.

He sat behind a curtain and dictated it allegedly from some golden plates given to him by the Angel Moroni. He was to reveal the plates afterward but then claim they were taken back by Moroni.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

 

I'm not sure I'm following what's being asked and/or stated. Also DougA, please realize that I'm not attacking you if something I point out seems that way. I'm just confused. Am I wrong in thinking that you are looking to justify the teachings of the Mormon church?

 

I'm not asking you to actually answer this here on the forum, but I have to wonder why you went from Baptist to Mormon. You also state that you are Southern Baptist today, but it seems as though you are wanting justification for Mormon teachings.

No one in the Baptist churches that you're familiar with believes that the Lord Jesus was there before the world was formed? Is that what you mean, or are you referring to no one in the Mormon church believes that?

Colossians 1:13-16
13   Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14   In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator; indeed he was there before the world was formed. He wasn't named "Jesus" until his physical birth; however, he has always been, always is, and always will be God.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

If you're saying that about the Baptists that you know; that's alarming to me...but not surprising to me these days. If you're saying that about the Mormons, that's because it doesn't fit with their theology. Also, they believe the "Book of Mormon" supersedes the Bible; therefore, they believe that anything in the Bible that contradicts their theology isn't true.

Is that a typing error; did you mean "more than one deity"? God was speaking to the pre-incarnate Christ, or he was speaking to the Holy Spirit, or he was speaking to both the pre-incarnate Christ and the Holy Spirit. I personally believe that he was speaking to both of them.

Just for clarity, while God is the same and never changes, the verse that you referred to is referring to the Lord Jesus Christ. The answer is simple (and I don't mean that in a mocking way)...the answer is very simple. The "Book of Mormon" is an addition to God's word. In fact, the Mormon church used to have television commercials many years ago that stated that. However, what does God say about that?

Proverbs 30:5-6
5   Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6   Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Smith directly went against God and added to God's words. He not only added to God's word, but much of his additions directly contradict God's word.

  1. There are failed prophecies in the Book of Mormon.
  2. There are failed historical references in the Book of Mormon.
  3. There are failed archaeological references in the Book of Mormon.

God's word is shown to be true in that biblical reference, and Joseph Smith was found to be a liar.

That's because Smith used the King James Bible as his "reference"...so to speak. I find it curious that the "Book of Mormon" was written in a very similar style as the King James Bible, but people no longer spoke that way when the "Book of Mormon" was written.

The answer there is also simple. Who is that opposes of God according to God's word? It's Satan. Now, I know the Mormons believe that Satan and Christ are brothers; however, that again is not biblical...

How could he write it?

  1. He used the King James Bible as his "reference".
  2. As the opposer of God, Satan or his devils (demons in today's language) inspired him to write it and start a religion that was in complete opposition to the truths of God's word and his method for salvation...or...
  3. Smith's own sinful fallen state prompted him to write it.

That's also why so many people would follow him. They didn't know the true God, nor did they know true salvation. I realize that may sound harsh, and I don't mean to sound harsh...but there is no other explanation. God doesn't change (which you, yourself acknowledged); therefore, Smith acted in direct opposition to God by adding to his words.

??? I'm not familiar with such a reference in the New Testament.

 

The LDS has multiple authorities they follow like most cults or false religions.

1) The Bible

2) The Book of Mormon

3) The Pearl of Great Price

4) Book of Doctrines and Covenants

5) The visions of the Twelve Apostles out in Salt Lake City. These guys pretty much are PR control and come up with new "revelations" to make sure the rest of the Books stay hip with the times.

6) There's also the General Authority of the Seventies, Bishops and other "presidents" that run the church out in Utah. Mostly making sure the tithe money is invested into the right corporations and other financial, political and PR dealings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, fastjav390 said:

The LDS has multiple authorities they follow like most cults or false religions.

1) The Bible

2) The Book of Mormon

3) The Pearl of Great Price

4) Book of Doctrines and Covenants

5) The visions of the Twelve Apostles out in Salt Lake City. These guys pretty much are PR control and come up with new "revelations" to make sure the rest of the Books stay hip with the times.

6) There's also the General Authority of the Seventies, Bishops and other "presidents" that run the church out in Utah. Mostly making sure the tithe money is invested into the right corporations and other financial, political and PR dealings.

Didn't the "Pearl of Great Price" come from a golden salamander?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Didn't the "Pearl of Great Price" come from a golden salamander?

You are thinking about the "salamander letter" which is about how Joseph Smith received the gold plates. Some believe that letter was a fraud itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, fastjav390 said:

You are thinking about the "salamander letter" which is about how Joseph Smith received the gold plates. Some believe that letter was a fraud itself.

Okay...thanks. It's been some time since I studied all of this. Thank you for clarifying that.

If I may, and I don't mean to put any type of pressure on you, but would you mind sharing what showed you the error of the Mormons? I realize that's asking a lot, and it could possibly involve a lot of typing depending on the situation...so use your own discrepancy depending on your situation and whether you decide to answer or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite a number of years ago, a local pastor told me that some students had been invited to a lecture at the university by the Mormons and had asked him to go with them.  At the end of tghe lecture the Mormon asked if there were any questions.  No one asked any, so he said I have one.  He said "You say that in the afterlife you will rule your own planet with all your family there?"   "Yes that's correct."  "But won't your sons all want to rule their own planet?"  The conversation got no further and he said he was escorted from the building with a burly Mormon on each side.

Edited by Invicta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Okay...thanks. It's been some time since I studied all of this. Thank you for clarifying that.

If I may, and I don't mean to put any type of pressure on you, but would you mind sharing what showed you the error of the Mormons? I realize that's asking a lot, and it could possibly involve a lot of typing depending on the situation...so use your own discrepancy depending on your situation and whether you decide to answer or not.

Nothing really, except maybe a tract I once read. It asked what you have to do to get to heaven and it had a list of things. There were some Mormon missionaries visiting my parents (both Mormon) and I read it to them. They said "Keep the 10 Commandments" and something else, I don't remember. Then I opened the tract and read it and it said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved...". I remember them looking at each other in stunned silence. I had no idea what the tract was going to say myself. I can't even remember where I got it. But I think that's when the light went on for me.

Fortunately, though I was baptized a Mormon at nine years old I never really got deep into the cult myself. I think because I split time between my dad and stepmom and my mother and when I was with my mother we would occasionally attend a Presbyterian church. It was my mother who first explained to me what sin was when I was around 12. Also, even though my father is a Mormon I really think he's an atheist. I think he just went along with my stepmother to get along. Neither of them really know what Mormons really believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fastjav390 said:

Nothing really, except maybe a tract I once read. It asked what you have to do to get to heaven and it had a list of things. There were some Mormon missionaries visiting my parents (both Mormon) and I read it to them. They said "Keep the 10 Commandments" and something else, I don't remember. Then I opened the tract and read it and it said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved...". I remember them looking at each other in stunned silence. I had no idea what the tract was going to say myself. I can't even remember where I got it. But I think that's when the light went on for me.

Fortunately, though I was baptized a Mormon at nine years old I never really got deep into the cult myself. I think because I split time between my dad and stepmom and my mother and when I was with my mother we would occasionally attend a Presbyterian church. It was my mother who first explained to me what sin was when I was around 12. Also, even though my father is a Mormon I really think he's an atheist. I think he just went along with my stepmother to get along. Neither of them really know what Mormons really believe.

Thank you. I most certainly appreciate you taking the time to respond, and the testimonial was a blessing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/2/2017 at 11:17 AM, Invicta said:

I looked on mormon.org and couldn't find any mention of Joseph Smith, however I did find the following:

I went to mormon.org, typed "Joseph Smith" in the search bar and it provided pages and pages of results.  Not being about to find mentions of Joseph Smith on the main Mormon site is like not being able to find mention of the virgin Mary on the Vatican's site.

 

On 2/2/2017 at 2:52 PM, fastjav390 said:

You are thinking about the "salamander letter" which is about how Joseph Smith received the gold plates. Some believe that letter was a fraud itself.

LOL!.......  LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Edited by Brother Stafford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

I went to mormon.org, typed "Joseph Smith" in the search bar and it provided pages and pages of results.  Not being about to find mentions of Joseph Smith on the main Mormon site is like not being able to find mentions of the virgin Mary on the Vatican's site.

 

LOL!.......  LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Oh yes, I didn't notice the search.

I used to be on a site where there was a charismatic who said he took a group of young people to a meeting in Wales, and he said during the meeting they all got gold dust over them but it then disappeared.  I said "Like Joseph Smitth's gold tablets."  He didn't like me comparing him to Joseph Smith, to say the least.

Edited by Invicta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Brother Stafford said:

 

 

LOL!.......  LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Let me clarify. The letter was allegedly written to discredit Joseph Smith but in their zeal to reveal him for the fraud he was the author(s) of the letter made up some fanciful tales themselves. At least this is now what is claimed. You see, the LDS scholars actually believed the letter to be authentic until people began to use the letter to show how loony of a man Joe Smith was. Then all of a sudden they claimed it to be a forgery. 

Edited by fastjav390

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Invicta said:

Oh yes, I didn't notice the search.

I used to be on a site where there was a charismatic who said he took a group of young people to a meeting in Wales, and he said during the meeting they all got gold dust over them but it then disappeared.  I said "Like Joseph Smitth's gold tablets."  He didn't like me comparing him to Joseph Smith, to say the least.

A few years back a charismatic man claimed this same thing to me. All this gold dust began falling out of the air onto his pastor while he was preaching. This seemed to have been a fad back in the '90's for a time during the "Brownsville Revival" and "Toronto Blessing" rage that was happening. You see a lot of gullible Christians fall into similar fads like the lost do with things like "planking", "twerking" or even "flagpole sitting" of the 1920's.  But with Christians it has a biblical slant. Recent ones I can think of are the "Bible Codes", "Blood Moons" and "7th Shemitah". The thing is I know the man personally and he's a pretty honest man so that's makes me curious just how the pastor pulled the "magic trick" off. I'm more fascinated by that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fastjav390 said:

Are you really "laughing out loud"? 

Yes.  I find the beliefs of Mormonism absolutely hilarious and when I think of people actually believing it and taking it seriously, it makes me audibly laugh.    Then I remember that those people will go to Hell for having those beliefs and I stop laughing.  It's a cycle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 5:00 PM, DougA said:

Jesus even said in the New Testament when the disciples didn't know what to name the primitive church He told them to name it after Him because if it's named after a man then it's a mans church. If it's named after Jesus the son of God it's His church and His doctrine which all Christian's should follow.

I don't understand where you found this in the New Testament? Not confrontation, I just wanted to know where "Jesus said in the New Testament...to name it after Him because if it's named after a man then it's a mans church."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some other weird LDS doctrines:

    Jesus appeared in the Americas after his resurrection to speak to the remnants of the Israelites living there.

    They have an old Egyptian papyrus that they call the Book of Abraham, which is actually a copy of a well-known document from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. They insist it is the writings of Abraham and the drawings in it illustrate things about his life, even though the document is well-known as desribes the supposed journey of the soul. To this day, even though it is clearly disproven, they still insist this is what it is, even declaring that while the WORDS may say one thing, the MEANING was given by God so that Smith understood it a different way.

   Jehovah has physical sex with Mary to produce Jesus, (ignoring the Bible's clear truth that it was the work of the Holy Ghost, a spiritual work, not physical.) And of course, that God the father dwells in a body of flesh, despite the clear teaching that God is a Spirit and has no physical body.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Similar Content

    • By Roselove
      I’ve been interested in starting one of those plans where you are sent a study on each part of the Bible every day, until you get through the whole book, in a year. Has anyone done one of these? I want to make sure I use one with Biblically sound studies. Has anyone followed one that they trust?
    • By Brian Smedley
      Hi, my name is Brian Smedley and I want to say without Christ I am nothing . Through the Lord Jesus Christ do I have righteousness, not my righteousness, but his. I am presented to God through Jesus blood that flowed at Calvary for my sins and all of mankind's. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth  on him would not perish, but have everlasting life. 
    • By Brian Smedley
      Hi, my name is Brian Smedley and I want to say without Christ I am nothing . Through the Lord Jesus Christ do I have righteousness, not my righteousness, but his. I am presented to God through Jesus blood that flowed at Calvary for my sins and all of mankind's. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth  on him would not perish, but have everlasting life. 

    • By Jordan Kurecki
      What is everyone’s thoughts on the Thompson Chain Reference Bible? I really did not like it the first time I saw one, but now I’ve come to realize that it is a great tool for getting into God’s word and digging into it. I have found it stimulates my devotional reading and is very helpful for digging into the different topics in a particular text. I like that it causes you to just move around in the Bible day apart from some notes in the back it has basically no theological bias. 
    • By Roselove
      I was wondering, does anyone know of a Bible translation, that is as accurate as the KJV, but has more modern writing? 
       
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 29 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...