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just because they rais there hand and do all those things' date=' so if they are worshipers,[/quote']


And, what about the Jews in the OT? They raised their hands high to show praise, honour, and glory to the Lord. No, we all don't do it...but, why criticise those that do? Were the Jews into CCM?
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NO they where in Jews Contemporary Music, just kidding, hey I have bad news, i know you are enjoying the subject and all that, but I have to go in this moment. I know that for tomorrow it is goingto have like 2 or 3 more pages of posts full of modern baptist, but I will see if I get a chance to continue talking this. By this moment I got to go, have a good night! It was good "talking".
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You're gonna have to do better than calling people here "modern Baptists" and saying we're wrong wrong without providing an argument to support your case. You can say your views are based on any kind of historical thing that you want but you need to provide Bible to back up what your saying here.

I don't find anywhere in Scripture forbidding a person from raising their hands. On the contrary, it even goes to far as to saying that we should praise God in dance. That's not just the hands, that's the whole body. :wink

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"Psalm 28:2 Hear the voice of my supplications, when I cry unto thee, when I lift up my hands toward thy holy oracle."

"Psalm 141:2 Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice."

"Psalm 63:4 Thus will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name."

"Psalm 134:2 Lift up your hands in the sanctuary, and bless the LORD."

"Nehemiah 8:6 And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground."

"Lamentations 2:19 Arise, cry out in the night: in the beginning of the watches pour out thine heart like water before the face of the Lord: lift up thy hands toward him for the life of thy young children, that faint for hunger in the top of every street."

"Luke 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them."

"1 Timothy 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting."

Lifting up the hands to God in prayer and praise is well supported by scripture. There might be an issue to be raised with how and in what spirit it is often done, but that is a very different issue.

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Lifting up the hands to God in prayer and praise is well supported by scripture. There might be an issue to be raised with how and in what spirit it is often done' date=' but that is a very different issue.[/quote']

I agree. I've sometimes wished that my IFB church's atmosphere was more conducive to this sort of expression of worship. (I don't think anyone at my church would be "offended" at all if someone raised his/her hands in worship, but I know it would draw attention to that person...which inhibits that person's worship to a certain extent). In the churches in which I grew up, hand-raising was very common; several people here and there would raise their hands in praise, thankfulness, worship, etc., throughout the service. I thought it was a beautiful expression.
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candlelight, sisther. Got a question for you.
What did it mean to rais there hands? Why did they do it?

Now, regarding to the fact that jews did it in the OT, they also killed animals and made them in sacrifice, do they also do it in your church?


Yeah we still do it "killed animals and made them in sacrifice, do they also do it in your church" Its called food fellowship after hunting season! :lol: The sacrafice is to those who really do not like deer but do not want to offend the hunter. :lol:
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You're gonna have to do better than calling people here "modern Baptists" and saying we're wrong wrong without providing an argument to support your case. You can say your views are based on any kind of historical thing that you want but you need to provide Bible to back up what your saying here.

I don't find anywhere in Scripture forbidding a person from raising their hands. On the contrary, it even goes to far as to saying that we should praise God in dance. That's not just the hands, that's the whole body. :wink



Hi, Kevin. You know what is funny. It is the older people...60+ who lift up their hands in worship and praise. We have an 84 year old Hispanic American man who is a WWII POW (Africa)...and, he loves to raise his hands high to the Lord in praise, honour, and glory. He is so sweet and gentle. We also have many older women who do the same thing, and it is the older people who sing Hallelujah to the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. The younger generation needs to work on this...in our "modern" Baptist church. hehe. That was so funny. If Bro Diego only knew. LOL.
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"Psalm 28:2 Hear the voice of my supplications, when I cry unto thee, when I lift up my hands toward thy holy oracle."

"Psalm 141:2 Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice."

"Psalm 63:4 Thus will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name."

"Psalm 134:2 Lift up your hands in the sanctuary, and bless the LORD."

"Nehemiah 8:6 And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground."

"Lamentations 2:19 Arise, cry out in the night: in the beginning of the watches pour out thine heart like water before the face of the Lord: lift up thy hands toward him for the life of thy young children, that faint for hunger in the top of every street."

"Luke 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them."

"1 Timothy 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting."

Lifting up the hands to God in prayer and praise is well supported by scripture. There might be an issue to be raised with how and in what spirit it is often done, but that is a very different issue.



Thanks, Seth, for the scriptures. The evangelist that preached the sermon has been preaching for over 45 years. He is also the Chaplain for the City of Parma, OH. Parma is the 3rd largest suburb in the state of Ohio. I know he has experience. He is NOT a "modern" man at all. Quite the contrary. LOL. He has led Muslims to the Lord Jesus Christ. :amen: He also sang a beautiful Gospel song before he preached.
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Hi, I am back, Kevin how are you? Nice to see you again and again in almost everything i say, haha, its ok, one day when you invite me to Korea I will forgive you. :thumb :thumb Just Kiding.

Alrright lets see where do i start.

... Its called food fellowship after hunting season! :lol: The sacrafice is to those who really do not like deer but do not want to offend the hunter. :lol:


I have never tried deer, is it good?

You're gonna have to do better than calling people here "modern Baptists" and saying we're wrong wrong without providing an argument to support your case. You can say your views are based on any kind of historical thing that you want but you need to provide Bible to back up what your saying here.

I don't find anywhere in Scripture forbidding a person from raising their hands. On the contrary, it even goes to far as to saying that we should praise God in dance. That's not just the hands, that's the whole body. :wink



Let's see Kevin.
First the issue of Modern BAPTIST, well Kevin as I mentioned i the past there is no historical documentation for 1900 years of Baptist raising hands, and doing all those things. As I said was it that for 1900 years we where wrong? And suddenly modern Baptist discovered and got lighted again in a "true" hmmm.. i don't think so, do you? Or would it be that let's see maybe charismatic and pentecostals strated all those practices and it has started to enter in some Baptist Churches? ohhh I think so, what about you?
About if the Bible backs up if people could be rasing there hands in the "worship". I challenge you to find me two verses where it says that during the "worship" they where doing those practices.
What did it mean to rais the hands in the Old Testament? You know? It is important to know what did it mean. That could change the perspective of things. (I AM LIVING YOU HOMEWORK KEVIN, i know is saturday but please forgive me my friend).
Then, I got one more thing, I have seen how several time different people start saying that in teh OT they did that, I got a homework for those who are saying that, tell me how did they "worship" in the tabernacle and then in the temple. And i say 'worship' because modern chrisitianity thinks that singing is synonym of "worshiping" and then they divided in songs of praises and songs of worship, haha, i never understood from where do they get that but well. So the homework is east tell me during singing what did they do in the temple in the OT, and how was the thing in the tabernacle. INstruments, etc...

JOhn 4:24
god is emotional, and they that worship him must worship him rasing hands and with your eyes closed.

ooooops sorry i confused of Bible in the King James 1611 says something like this:

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth
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Bro. Diego,

You are the product of some very narrowly focus'd and revisionist history of Baptists. You make some very bold and super confident claims that you are unable to support with Scripture. Please go back to the Psalms, and come back with your hands raised unto the LORD.

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Bro. Diego,

You are the product of some very narrowly focus'd and revisionist history of Baptists. You make some very bold and super confident claims that you are unable to support with Scripture. Please go back to the Psalms, and come back with your hands raised unto the LORD.


No, no. YOur wrong I make 3 esential arguments when you answer them then we can see if i am a "very narrowly focus'd and revisionist history of Baptists".

1- What does rasing hands in the OT means. (please don't tell me you do something with out knowing the meaning)
2- What was the "worship" in the Tabernacle and the temple in the OT.
3- What instruments where played or used at the Tabernacle and the Temple in the OT.

That is why I say, that sometimes we say the BIble doesn't say anything against but we don't take time to stop and analyze the verses.

Now in other hand, i can tell you I can hold historiccly what i said, by some reason it is called CONTEMPORARY, NEW, MODERN, ETC, ETC, ETC.
Or maybe you are right Christ started raising his hands and sining and crying and clapping ni middle of the synagogue, please! Don;t try to accuse me of something which is your preference. Or maybe Spurgeon in 1650, Spurgeon in 1850, or Huss in 1390, or Wycliff, or Patrick, etc. etc, etc. maybe they where at church there jumping, and rasing there hands and doing all those emotional things.
Hmmmm. so now who is the "very narrowly focus'd and revisionist history of Baptists"
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I don't know of any Baptists that go back 1900 years. lol
But who really cares what Baptists have done? I mean, come on, for a denomination claiming to put the Bible first, I see a lot of reliance on what Baptists have done historically, as if that's more important than searching it out in Scripture for oneself.

You mention the OT and being in the temple and in the tabernacle. But, when they met in the tabernacle, they couldn't go directly to God either. They also had a lot of ritual and sacrifices. I'd say that our services today are a LOT different than OT Judaism. I can guarantee they didn't have pianos in the tabernacle. :frog

Music is one form of worship. Worship takes place inwardly but can have multiple manifestations and we can manifest it in worship. I would also suggest going to the book of Psalms and reading through it.

Psalm 66:4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name.

Hand-raising in praise:
Psalm 63:4 Thus will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name.

Psalm 134:2 Lift up your hands in the sanctuary, and bless the LORD.(notice the bold)

Dancing in praise:
Psalm 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Psalm 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

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I don't know of any Baptists that go back 1900 years. lol
But who really cares what Baptists have done? I mean, come on, for a denomination claiming to put the Bible first, I see a lot of reliance on what Baptists have done historically, as if that's more important than searching it out in Scripture for oneself.

You mention the OT and being in the temple and in the tabernacle. But, when they met in the tabernacle, they couldn't go directly to God either. They also had a lot of ritual and sacrifices. I'd say that our services today are a LOT different than OT Judaism. I can guarantee they didn't have pianos in the tabernacle. :frog

Music is one form of worship. Worship takes place inwardly but can have multiple manifestations and we can manifest it in worship. I would also suggest going to the book of Psalms and reading through it.

Psalm 66:4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name.

Hand-raising in praise:
Psalm 63:4 Thus will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name.

Psalm 134:2 Lift up your hands in the sanctuary, and bless the LORD.(notice the bold)

Dancing in praise:
Psalm 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Psalm 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.


you didn't answer tough.
PLus history is good always that doesn't go against the Word of God.

All those verses and I repeat the question if that really mean to "dance", lift hands and all that in the temple or tabernacle, did they do it? No they didn't! Have yoiu ever heard a jew ceremony? Well you ll see how far from that it is, Those verses are out of the context and there real meaning. Now it is also important what church has done for 2000 years, since Christ built his church. I ask again: Has church been wrong for 1900 years? You know that is impossible to proove that there was Huss, or Wycliffe or Spurgeon doing thatm, because it was not teached to church to do it! noT EVEN jews did that in the temple or the tabernacle! NONE! intresting! So just to write psalms 150 would be out of the context.
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I'm sorry Bro. Diego, but I have to say that your posts are a picture of poor debating.

All those verses and I repeat the question if that really mean to "dance", lift hands and all that in the temple or tabernacle, did they do it? No they didn't!

Psalm 134:2 Lift up your hands in the sanctuary, and bless the LORD.(notice the bold)
I guess you didn't "notice the bold." Yup, that's pretty clear. Do you want me to do a word search on what sanctuary means?
Not to mention....we aren't bound to a building any longer. People can meet in one another's houses and have their fellowship there. It happened all the time in the NT.

Have yoiu ever heard a jew ceremony?

Do you not eat pork, too? I mean, do you think that Judaism and Christianity is the same? What happened to Christ and the NT?

Those verses are out of the context and there real meaning.

Talk is cheap. If they're out of context, put them in context or don't make the accusation. Those verses are crystal clear.

Now it is also important what church has done for 2000 years, since Christ built his church. I ask again: Has church been wrong for 1900 years? You know that is impossible to proove that there was Huss, or Wycliffe or Spurgeon doing thatm, because it was not teached to church to do it! noT EVEN jews did that in the temple or the tabernacle! NONE! intresting! So just to write psalms 150 would be out of the context.

So here is where we get to the heart of the issue. You make a lot of hot air arguments just so we can come to the conclusion that it's more important to look at what Spurgeon and Huss did than to go directly to Scripture. I think it's a shame and rather disturbing that you would take history and make the Bible conform to it. "This is how it was historically so that chapter must be out of context." That is exactly what the Roman Catholic Church does. I'll say it again, it's disturbing that you would take Scripture so lightly.
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I'd say that our services today are a LOT different than OT Judaism. I can guarantee they didn't have pianos in the tabernacle.

Music is one form of worship. Worship takes place inwardly but can have multiple manifestations and we can manifest it in worship. I would also suggest going to the book of Psalms and reading through it.

Psalm 66:4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name.

Hand-raising in praise:
Psalm 63:4 Thus will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name.

Psalm 134:2 Lift up your hands in the sanctuary, and bless the LORD.(notice the bold)

Dancing in praise:
Psalm 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Psalm 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.



:amen::goodpost: Kevin. It reminds me of the RCC celebrating the Eucharist. The word, Eucharist means, Thanksgiving. However, it is a "spiritual" Thanksgiving NOT "sacrificial". All sacrifices ended in the OT before Christ. John 6, and Acts 15 clears up any misconceptions for Catholics who want to learn the truth. Study the truth of the scriptures. Not what some man has said, ie.... a famous IFB pastor with a good reputation. Not all good men of God can back up what they say with scripture. They leave many seeking more truth.
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What does rasing hands in the OT means. (please don't tell me you do something with out knowing the meaning)


During prayer is the most common biblical example of lifting up the hands to God, but there is no reason it can't be done during music IF the heart is right and IF the music is glorifying to God.

In the scriptures, authority and power is often symbolically passed through the hands. Thus we see throughout the scriptures the laying on of hands to give a blessing, pass authority, etc. It is also why even to this day when the president of the USA is sworn in they must place one hand on th bible and lift the other up in the air while swearing. By that they are swearing on the authority of the scriptures and on the authority of the person of God himself. That was as serious of an oath as our founders knew how to make. Raising your hands to God is expressing that you are passing or submitting your "authority"(your own will, attitudes, etc.) to him. That is what is it is holy about it and why it it can be a good thing if done in the proper spirit or a wicked thing if done out of a impure heart as shown in this verse:

"Isaiah 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood."

The symbolical passing of power through the hands is not limited to any particular biblical period. In the scriptures we see: Abraham, Israel(Jacob), Moses, David, Jesus Christ, Paul, etc. all either doing it or recommending it. You can't limit it to one period of time, and you can't discount it. To many biblical examples of to many believers(as well as Christ himself) lifting their hands to God to show submission to him or placing their hands on others to pass power or blessing to them. :wink
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Intresting, intresting.

There is a quote that says that once you can't answer something or yoiu don't have an argument then you attack the person.

So I am not surprised of some words.

By another way seems like a manipulation of verses to use it in your preference, hmm.
Something else that I have mention several times calls my attention that the ones who are always in pro of the charismatic practices to get in Baptist Churches are the same ones... sooo...

I see you can't answer the question. And with things that are facts that are true then you come with ... like a Catholic and blah, blah, because you are just avoiding to answer what is a fact.

Kevin, candlelight and the other one (I can't remeber the name) Here is the issue, I think you guys are manipulating the BIble and then avoiding the facts.

PLease, be honest at least you think Jesus would be there raising hands, crying and doing those charsmiatical practices?????? Because if then maybe we have a different Jesus. I have a Jesus who is solid, spirit adn truth.

Its just silly trying to compare me with Catholics, its funny what modern Baptist could say.

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Intresting, intresting.

There is a quote that says that once you can't answer something or yoiu don't have an argument then you attack the person.

So I am not surprised of some words.

By another way seems like a manipulation of verses to use it in your preference, hmm.
Something else that I have mention several times calls my attention that the ones who are always in pro of the charismatic practices to get in Baptist Churches are the same ones... sooo...

I see you can't answer the question. And with things that are facts that are true then you come with ... like a Catholic and blah, blah, because you are just avoiding to answer what is a fact.

Kevin, candlelight and the other one (I can't remeber the name) Here is the issue, I think you guys are manipulating the BIble and then avoiding the facts.

PLease, be honest at least you think Jesus would be there raising hands, crying and doing those charsmiatical practices?????? Because if then maybe we have a different Jesus. I have a Jesus who is solid, spirit adn truth.

Its just silly trying to compare me with Catholics, its funny what modern Baptist could say.


My friend, your statements and arguments really have me chuckling and laughing. Then I have to stop because you really are being serious. You complain that Kevin is using Scripture wrongly; BUT at least he's using Scripture. You haven't given any Scripture to buttress your claim that raising hands to the LORD during worship and/or prayer is wrong and should not be done.
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lol, I have to agree with TRC on this one. It would be funny if you weren't so serious. If you provided even a shred of evidence then maybe, just maybe, you could accuse me of not answering you. The only person here who is avoiding answering is you. You are not showing the slightest bit of respect to the Bible by completely disregarding it in this discussion.

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PLease, be honest at least you think Jesus would be there raising hands, crying and doing those charsmiatical practices?????? Because if then maybe we have a different Jesus. I have a Jesus who is solid, spirit adn truth.


I sense that is your real problem with hand raising. :wink You seem to be under the impression that it is a "charismatic thing". Biblical hand raising isn't a "charismatic thing" any more than the Holy Spirit is a "charismatic thing". The charismatics are prone to abuse the proper use of hand raising and turn it into a outlet for the flesh but that doesn't mean that hand raising is unbiblical and to be avoided any more than their mis-attributing of things like tongues(or what they call tongues rather) to the Holy Ghost means we should avoid speaking of the Holy Spirit.


Address the real problem, the charismatics common abuse of hand raising, but hand raising IS biblical and you can't deny it.
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