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Jordan Kurecki

"I pray Caitlyn Jenner goes to hell"

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You know; I saw Bruce Jenner in an interview (when he came out as a"woman") and the poor guy was CRYING. He's sad, he's pitiful, sick and lost. He needs Jesus. This man, on the other hand, is a "proud and haughty scorner". If he is saved he needs to repent because the GOD of the Bible LOVES Bruce Jenner.

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Let me add something here...

First, I meant no disrespect towards Jordan, so I hope it wasn't taken that way.

Next, in addition to my previous post, let me add something on a secular level...

Knowing that people can earn money through their YouTube videos...hence why so many will say, "Be sure to rate, comment, and subscribe!"...I'm overly cautious about the videos that I watch.

I don't know if Anderson makes money from YouTube or not, but I'm not willing to take the risk that my actions might put even one penny in his pocket.

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On 1/20/2017 at 3:30 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

What are your thoughts on this video, particularly the last half?

Anderson uses, primarily, the second half of Romans 1 to support his teaching of hating sodomites, that they are beyond salvation and that God has given up on them permanently; because they are reprobate.  He makes a compelling argument, and I bought into it a while back, but have since come to the conclusion that Anderson is wrong.  

Anderson is a proponent of eternal, irrevocable salvation (as am I).  If someone is saved, but then later falls into sodomitic sin, how would Anderson handle the issue of their continued salvation?

To my knowledge, the only unpardonable sin is to blaspheme against the Holy Ghost.

(Matthew 12:31-32) "¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. {32} And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

(Mark 3:28-30) "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: {29} But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: {30} Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit."

(Luke 12:10) "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven."

Indeed, we are told that Christ will forgive us of all sin and all unrighteousness.

(1 John 1:9) "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Is there anywhere in scripture where we are told to pray for the death and damnation of others?  I have not come across such a verse as of yet.  If it exists, could someone please tell me what it is?

Please don't mistake my disagreement with Anderson's teaching about sodomites with approval and acceptance of sodomites.  I still find the whole concept vile and disgusting and incredibly sinful and I stay separated from them; only associating with them when giving them the Gospel or if they have repented from that lifestyle.

On 1/20/2017 at 6:44 PM, No Nicolaitans said:

I don't know if Anderson makes money from YouTube or not, but I'm not willing to take the risk that my actions might put even one penny in his pocket.

Anderson is vehemently against using the church to make money.  He has spoken about it, from his pulpit, several times.  He says that they never charge anything for copies of the sermons or the documentaries.  The church member that helps Anderson make the documentaries charges for copies, but Anderson gives everything away at the church for free.  I have copies of all of his documentaries that he sent to me for free.  I disagree with so much of what Anderson teaches, but I agree with him on the subject of churches turning a profit.

I have said elsewhere that Anderson has some very good teachings, but the places where he is wrong are not little issues and should be reason enough to avoid him.  The biggest one that concerns me is his teaching on repentance.  He teaches that repentance is not needed for salvation and that those who teach that repentance is needed are teaching an evil doctrine and are not real Christians.

Edited by Brother Stafford

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A few years ago I used to watch Mr. Anderson's videos. I started because he's King James only, and I found him mildly entertaining. That was back before people started monetizing their videos. That lasted until I got tired of him drop kicking his Bible across the room and swearing at his congregation. That I objected to, and I stopped watching him. 

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11 minutes ago, busdrvrlinda54 said:

That lasted until I got tired of him drop kicking his Bible across the room and swearing at his congregation.

I've seen him do some crazy things, but I have never seen him do anything to a Bible other than pound it.  I have also never heard him swear.  Could you provide links to such videos?

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I'm pretty tough and hard nosed, but I surely don't understand wishing someone would just die and go to hell. Even on the other threads where we've discussed self defense and soldiering, we more active types hope the opposition actually will just leave us alone so that we don't have to make that terrible, awful decision. But we never just wish someone would die and go to hell. That's horrible.

Reminds me of Jesus' words to the Sons of Thunder - "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of"

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6 hours ago, Brother Stafford said:

I have said elsewhere that Anderson has some very good teachings, but the places where he is wrong are not little issues and should be reason enough to avoid him.  The biggest one that concerns me is his teaching on repentance.  He teaches that repentance is not needed for salvation and that those who teach that repentance is needed are teaching an evil doctrine and are not real Christians.

Bro. Anderson is not against a "repentance to salvation" but rather the "Repent of sins FOR salvation". The argument being that those who teach the latter are essentially teaching that the lost sinner must resolve to leave their sin in exchange for Christ to save them, where as, true repentance is the lost sinner realizing they cannot save themselves from sin and must turn to Christ to save them.

Additionally it is an argument about the definition of repentance. Bro. Anderson argues that  Biblical Repentance simply means "change of mind", "to turn", or "a return", where as, the common Religious definition today links it hard to "a turn from sin". To repent in regards to Salvation, he argues, is to realize your sinful condition before God (a  lost sinner is unable to turn from sin) and then simply turn back to God by faith In Christ alone. A promise to turn from sins not being a requirement for salvation because it will be God through Christ who washes and remits the humble contrite sinner from the sin, after salvation.

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6 hours ago, busdrvrlinda54 said:

That lasted until I got tired of him drop kicking his Bible across the room and swearing at his congregation. That I objected to, and I stopped watching him. 

I couldn't find him dropkicking a Bible, but I found him kicking the side of his podium.  I did manage to find him swearing at his congregation (uses the word "hell" in a profane manner).

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I was just thinking; even if God had said that He gives up on sodomites, could we not still offer intercessory prayer?  Didn't Moses do that very thing and succeed in convincing God to change His mind?

(Exodus 32:9-14) "And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: {10} Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation. {11} And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? {12} Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people. {13} Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever. {14} And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

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No salvation for sodomites?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9   Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10   Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11   And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

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If they were truly saved then they would no longer be sodomites... or at least not for very much longer after salvation...... aka God does not save sodomites but he does save sinners from the lifestyle of sodomy....

Edited by John Young

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From my understanding, Mr. Anderson preaches that sodomites CAN'T be saved...if I'm wrong, someone please correct me. The verses that I posted from 1 Corinthians clearly shows that sodomites can be saved.

I'll admit that I could be wrong, but I also don't agree with Mr. Anderson's understanding of Romans 1. His focus is on the sodomites listed in those verses; however, a closer look will reveal that the sodomy was a by-product of "something else"...it's the "something else" that is the actual problem and focus of those verses...

Romans 1:18-32
18   For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19   Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20   For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21   Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22   Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23   And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24   Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25   Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26   For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27   And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28   And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29   Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30   Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31   Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32   Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Today, we put the focus on the sodomy in those verses, yet there are many other types of sinners also listed. We focus on the sodomy, but God's focus was on the fact that these people willingly held the truth of God in unrighteousness and willingly turned their backs on him, and because they turned their backs on him, God "gave them up"...he surrendered them over to their sinful passions. As they continued on in their rejection of God, he "gave them over"...he surrendered them to a reprobate mind.

Their sodomy was a by-product of their rejection of God...as were ALL of the other sins listed in verses 28-31...which are also included in having a reprobate mind.

Who were these people? Well, I would imagine they were the Romans. Look at verse 23. Who else made god-images like that? It has to be either the Greeks or the Romans that he's referring to. Who else made statues of their gods? I don't know of any sodomites doing that today.

Now...I'm not taking up for sodomites. That particular sin makes me angry, sickens me, breaks my heart, and saddens me...all at the same time. I just think there's more to those verses than the sodomites. I think what the verses are relaying is this...

If you reject God, he will allow you to do that, and he will surrender you to whatever your fleshly desires are. God didn't MAKE them reprobate...they made themselves reprobates, because that's what they wanted. God just allowed it to happen.

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31 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

From my understanding, Mr. Anderson preaches that sodomites CAN'T be saved...if I'm wrong, someone please correct me. The verses that I posted from 1 Corinthians clearly shows that sodomites can be saved.

More accurately his position is that Sodomites do not WANT to be saved because they love their lifestyle and therefor cannot be saved. They have to humble themselves before God but the Sodomite refuses to do that because of their pride and self will. In other words the Sodomite refuses to go into the light lest their deeds be reproved. Simply being effeminate and abusers of themselves with mankind does not make them a Sodomite but rather their pride and self will lifestyle does. A Sodomite is not simply one who commits same sex relations or "feels gay" but rather forces themselves on others, often sexually but also socially as well in creating their communities and fighting for it's acceptance. They lift themselves up in pride against God's natural order and demand that all things conform to their wishes and desires. Therefore a Sodomite cannot be saved but a sinner caught in sins of sodomy can be saved from them. 

John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Edited by John Young

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Okay...maybe I'm too narrow-minded. In my understanding, someone who engages in the sin of sodomy is a sodomite, and a sodomite is someone who engages in the sin of sodomy...I don't see the difference. I've never heard that a sodomite is only someone who forces themselves on others.

When I look up the only references to the word sodomite in the Bible (it appears only five times); each time, it's talking about male prostitutes, and a prostitute/whore doesn't force themselves on people.

Would the same apply to something like...a murderer...since it's is also listed? Such as, a murderer can't be saved, but a sinner caught in the sin of murder can be? I'm not trying to argue with you...just trying to understand this line of thinking and see where I might be wrong. :)

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31 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Okay...maybe I'm too narrow-minded. In my understanding, someone who engages in the sin of sodomy is a sodomite, and a sodomite is someone who engages in the sin of sodomy...I don't see the difference. I've never heard that a sodomite is only someone who forces themselves on others.

When I look up the only references to the word sodomite in the Bible (it appears only five times); each time, it's talking about male prostitutes, and a prostitute/whore doesn't force themselves on people.

Would the same apply to something like...a murderer...since it's is also listed? Such as, a murderer can't be saved, but a sinner caught in the sin of murder can be? I'm not trying to argue with you...just trying to understand this line of thinking and see where I might be wrong. :)

The Sodomite is a citizen of Sodom or one who lives after the customs of that city. Lot lived in Sodom but was not a Sodomite. The Sodomites forced themselves on Lot and the Angels. More accurately (because they no longer have a city to call home) they are called the "sons of Belial" (sons of the devil) in the bible.

"The term belial (בְלִיַּעַל bĕli-yaal) is a Hebrew adjective meaning "worthless." The etymology of the word is traditionally understood as "lacking worth",[3] from two common words: beli- (בְּלִי "without-") and ya'al ( יָעַל "value"). - wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belial

Male prostitution is only a small amount of what Sodomites do as well in order to recruit at the beginning stages of that corruption. Sodomites often recruit by enticement and "free love/pleasure" until their numbers grow then it becomes by constraint until finally by open force. People can be enticed by the initial sins but not actually be fully given over to the corruption.

2 Corinthians 6:15 and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Edited by John Young

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I respect your position John, but I just can't bring myself to agree with you...but I still love you brother.

As I look at the biblical references for sodomite, there is nothing indicating that they were citizens of Sodom, but I do agree that they "lived after the custom of that city" so to speak. While I know that Sodom (and it's sins) is where the term came from...and a Sodomite (capital S) may indeed be a citizen of Sodom...a sodomite (lower-case s) isn't. I'm referring to the lower-case s's. None of the biblical references of "sodomite(s)" use a capital S.

At the same time, I will also admit that based on what I've just seen in scripture, and by using the scriptural definition...until I study it more, I will no longer refer to all homosexuals/lesbians as sodomites. From what I see, a sodomite is only referred to as a male prostitute in scripture...with the possibility of it also referring to serving false gods...which is also what Romans 1 refers to in part.

Deuteronomy 23:17
There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

sodomites of the sons of Israel...not Sodom

1 Kings 14:21-24
21   And Rehoboam the son of Solomon reigned in Judah. Rehoboam was forty and one years old when he began to reign, and he reigned seventeen years in Jerusalem, the city which the LORD did choose out of all the tribes of Israel, to put his name there. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess.
22   And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done.
23   For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree.
24   And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

sodomites in the land of Judah...not Sodom

1 Kings 15:9-12
9   And in the twentieth year of Jeroboam king of Israel reigned Asa over Judah.
10   And forty and one years reigned he in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Maachah, the daughter of Abishalom.
11   And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father.
12   And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

sodomites in the land of Judah...not Sodom

1 Kings 22:41-46
41   And Jehoshaphat the son of Asa began to reign over Judah in the fourth year of Ahab king of Israel.
42   Jehoshaphat was thirty and five years old when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and five years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Azubah the daughter of Shilhi.
43   And he walked in all the ways of Asa his father; he turned not aside from it, doing that which was right in the eyes of the LORD: nevertheless the high places were not taken away; for the people offered and burnt incense yet in the high places.
44   And Jehoshaphat made peace with the king of Israel.
45   Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, and his might that he shewed, and how he warred, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Judah?
46   And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.

sodomites in the land of Judah...not Sodom

2 Kings 23:1-7
1   And the king sent, and they gathered unto him all the elders of Judah and of Jerusalem.
2   And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant which was found in the house of the LORD.
3   And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.
4   And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel.
5   And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.
6   And he brought out the grove from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people.
7   And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

sodomites in the land of Judah...particularly in Jerusalem at the temple...not in Sodom

John, thank you for the kind spirit with which you went back and forth with me. :)

Edited by No Nicolaitans

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Your reference to Sodomites becoming known as "the sons of Belial" intrigues me. Are you inferring that all "sons of Belial" are Sodomites (capital S as in ex-citizens of Sodom and including those who lived after the custom of that city). In other words, are all "sons of Belial" sodomites?

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I tend to capitalize nouns when they are titles. It actually has little to do with the city itself after it was destroyed as it does in the people who continued its corrupt nature. The context of every passage shows that the sodomites were more then just prostituting their body but rather recreating the corrupt culture of the nations which God cast out of the land in the first place. There goal is to do cause things to be the opposite of what God created them to be. The modern definition simply states its sexual definition but sodomy in older dictionaries describe it as meaning "a crime against nature". This is why the first call of a child of Belial is one of sodomy. Interestingly Geneses 19 and Judges 19 show the same debauched nature of the original Sodomite in the Sons of Belial. I would defiantly encourage a study on Belial in the Bible and see how they relate to the nature of the Sodomite of Genesis. Additionally study "Sodom" as well will show their true nature as being more than just male/same sex prostitution.

Edited by John Young

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I looked up the 4 references to "sons of Belial" in the Bible, and yes, the first reference does pertain to practices very similar to what happened in Sodom; however, the sons of Eli are also called "sons of Belial, and from what I can recall, nothing is said of them being involved in sodomite behavior. In fact, from what I can recall, the only sexual sins (of the sons of Eli) were with women.

I also looked at other references; such as, "men of Belial, children of Belial"...there was even a daughter of Belial...which in itself, discounts "whoever of Belial" as being sodomites to me...since sodomites are always referred to as males.

As I looked over it, all that I came away with is that to be a child, son, man, or daughter of Belial means that you follow wickedness...not strictly pertaining to sodomy.

I'll look into it further, but at this juncture...I'm just not seeing what you're seeing.

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Notice, this is speaking to a City; a state.

Ezekiel 16

44Behold, every one that useth proverbs shall use this proverb against thee, saying, As is the mother, so is her daughter. 45Thou art thy mother's daughter, that lotheth her husband and her children; and thou art the sister of thy sisters, which lothed their husbands and their children: your mother was an Hittite, and your father an Amorite. 46And thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters. 47Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways. 48As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters. 49Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

The "sodomy" was a symptom of the degradation which started with "pride",  I'd almost be willing to bet my right arm that this arrogant "preacher" is a controlling manipulator who treats people like dirt.

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5 hours ago, heartstrings said:

The "sodomy" was a symptom of the degradation which started with "pride",  I'd almost be willing to bet my right arm that this arrogant "preacher" is a controlling manipulator who treats people like dirt.

I've read his wife's blog. It doesn't seem like a happy family. 

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