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"I pray Caitlyn Jenner goes to hell"


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Okay...maybe I'm too narrow-minded. In my understanding, someone who engages in the sin of sodomy is a sodomite, and a sodomite is someone who engages in the sin of sodomy...I don't see the difference. I've never heard that a sodomite is only someone who forces themselves on others.

When I look up the only references to the word sodomite in the Bible (it appears only five times); each time, it's talking about male prostitutes, and a prostitute/whore doesn't force themselves on people.

Would the same apply to something like...a murderer...since it's is also listed? Such as, a murderer can't be saved, but a sinner caught in the sin of murder can be? I'm not trying to argue with you...just trying to understand this line of thinking and see where I might be wrong. :)

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31 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Okay...maybe I'm too narrow-minded. In my understanding, someone who engages in the sin of sodomy is a sodomite, and a sodomite is someone who engages in the sin of sodomy...I don't see the difference. I've never heard that a sodomite is only someone who forces themselves on others.

When I look up the only references to the word sodomite in the Bible (it appears only five times); each time, it's talking about male prostitutes, and a prostitute/whore doesn't force themselves on people.

Would the same apply to something like...a murderer...since it's is also listed? Such as, a murderer can't be saved, but a sinner caught in the sin of murder can be? I'm not trying to argue with you...just trying to understand this line of thinking and see where I might be wrong. :)

The Sodomite is a citizen of Sodom or one who lives after the customs of that city. Lot lived in Sodom but was not a Sodomite. The Sodomites forced themselves on Lot and the Angels. More accurately (because they no longer have a city to call home) they are called the "sons of Belial" (sons of the devil) in the bible.

"The term belial (בְלִיַּעַל bĕli-yaal) is a Hebrew adjective meaning "worthless." The etymology of the word is traditionally understood as "lacking worth",[3] from two common words: beli- (בְּלִי "without-") and ya'al ( יָעַל "value"). - wikipedia" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belial

Male prostitution is only a small amount of what Sodomites do as well in order to recruit at the beginning stages of that corruption. Sodomites often recruit by enticement and "free love/pleasure" until their numbers grow then it becomes by constraint until finally by open force. People can be enticed by the initial sins but not actually be fully given over to the corruption.

2 Corinthians 6:15 and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Edited by John Young
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I respect your position John, but I just can't bring myself to agree with you...but I still love you brother.

As I look at the biblical references for sodomite, there is nothing indicating that they were citizens of Sodom, but I do agree that they "lived after the custom of that city" so to speak. While I know that Sodom (and it's sins) is where the term came from...and a Sodomite (capital S) may indeed be a citizen of Sodom...a sodomite (lower-case s) isn't. I'm referring to the lower-case s's. None of the biblical references of "sodomite(s)" use a capital S.

At the same time, I will also admit that based on what I've just seen in scripture, and by using the scriptural definition...until I study it more, I will no longer refer to all homosexuals/lesbians as sodomites. From what I see, a sodomite is only referred to as a male prostitute in scripture...with the possibility of it also referring to serving false gods...which is also what Romans 1 refers to in part.

Deuteronomy 23:17
There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

sodomites of the sons of Israel...not Sodom

1 Kings 14:21-24
21   And Rehoboam the son of Solomon reigned in Judah. Rehoboam was forty and one years old when he began to reign, and he reigned seventeen years in Jerusalem, the city which the LORD did choose out of all the tribes of Israel, to put his name there. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess.
22   And Judah did evil in the sight of the LORD, and they provoked him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done.
23   For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree.
24   And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

sodomites in the land of Judah...not Sodom

1 Kings 15:9-12
9   And in the twentieth year of Jeroboam king of Israel reigned Asa over Judah.
10   And forty and one years reigned he in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Maachah, the daughter of Abishalom.
11   And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father.
12   And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

sodomites in the land of Judah...not Sodom

1 Kings 22:41-46
41   And Jehoshaphat the son of Asa began to reign over Judah in the fourth year of Ahab king of Israel.
42   Jehoshaphat was thirty and five years old when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and five years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Azubah the daughter of Shilhi.
43   And he walked in all the ways of Asa his father; he turned not aside from it, doing that which was right in the eyes of the LORD: nevertheless the high places were not taken away; for the people offered and burnt incense yet in the high places.
44   And Jehoshaphat made peace with the king of Israel.
45   Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, and his might that he shewed, and how he warred, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Judah?
46   And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.

sodomites in the land of Judah...not Sodom

2 Kings 23:1-7
1   And the king sent, and they gathered unto him all the elders of Judah and of Jerusalem.
2   And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem with him, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the people, both small and great: and he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant which was found in the house of the LORD.
3   And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.
4   And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel.
5   And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.
6   And he brought out the grove from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people.
7   And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

sodomites in the land of Judah...particularly in Jerusalem at the temple...not in Sodom

John, thank you for the kind spirit with which you went back and forth with me. :)

Edited by No Nicolaitans
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I tend to capitalize nouns when they are titles. It actually has little to do with the city itself after it was destroyed as it does in the people who continued its corrupt nature. The context of every passage shows that the sodomites were more then just prostituting their body but rather recreating the corrupt culture of the nations which God cast out of the land in the first place. There goal is to do cause things to be the opposite of what God created them to be. The modern definition simply states its sexual definition but sodomy in older dictionaries describe it as meaning "a crime against nature". This is why the first call of a child of Belial is one of sodomy. Interestingly Geneses 19 and Judges 19 show the same debauched nature of the original Sodomite in the Sons of Belial. I would defiantly encourage a study on Belial in the Bible and see how they relate to the nature of the Sodomite of Genesis. Additionally study "Sodom" as well will show their true nature as being more than just male/same sex prostitution.

Edited by John Young
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I looked up the 4 references to "sons of Belial" in the Bible, and yes, the first reference does pertain to practices very similar to what happened in Sodom; however, the sons of Eli are also called "sons of Belial, and from what I can recall, nothing is said of them being involved in sodomite behavior. In fact, from what I can recall, the only sexual sins (of the sons of Eli) were with women.

I also looked at other references; such as, "men of Belial, children of Belial"...there was even a daughter of Belial...which in itself, discounts "whoever of Belial" as being sodomites to me...since sodomites are always referred to as males.

As I looked over it, all that I came away with is that to be a child, son, man, or daughter of Belial means that you follow wickedness...not strictly pertaining to sodomy.

I'll look into it further, but at this juncture...I'm just not seeing what you're seeing.

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Notice, this is speaking to a City; a state.

Ezekiel 16

44Behold, every one that useth proverbs shall use this proverb against thee, saying, As is the mother, so is her daughter. 45Thou art thy mother's daughter, that lotheth her husband and her children; and thou art the sister of thy sisters, which lothed their husbands and their children: your mother was an Hittite, and your father an Amorite. 46And thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters. 47Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways. 48As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters. 49Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

The "sodomy" was a symptom of the degradation which started with "pride",  I'd almost be willing to bet my right arm that this arrogant "preacher" is a controlling manipulator who treats people like dirt.

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5 hours ago, heartstrings said:

The "sodomy" was a symptom of the degradation which started with "pride",  I'd almost be willing to bet my right arm that this arrogant "preacher" is a controlling manipulator who treats people like dirt.

I've read his wife's blog. It doesn't seem like a happy family. 

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