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Abram's Obedience Test


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How childish.....

Mine was a legitimate questioning - yours is simply childish "payback".....

However, apart from common knowledge and plain good sense, even today people do not travel distances without ensuring they can access food, either by supply on the way, or by carried provision.

Your made up speculation that Melchizedek brought food SPECIFICALLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF ACCEPTING THE TITHE is nothing more a guess because you want it to fit your position.

Edited by DaveW
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39 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

I have historical documentation that tells of the practice of giving war spoils to kings.  That's proof enough.
There's no biblical proof of a lot of things that are preached in our churches today.  But many are documented in historical records.

SFIC Your proof is flawed, because this "king" you refer to was no ordinary king. Rather he was "Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;" The priest of the same most high God who led Abraham to leave "Ur of the Chaldees" by faith.

Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Now after you're done considering "how great this man was" consider Jesus Christ who gave himself for all men, how great this God is. Stop ranting about those who of our own free will give not only a tenth but more; including the wallet with the tenth, the pocket with the wallet, the pants with the pocket, and the man wearing the pants.

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5 hours ago, Alan said:

Deep in my heart, I feel sad that you believe that Abraham tithed due to a custom of the people that he lived around and not due to Abraham's faith, love, and a willing heart.

 

No need to feel sad for me. 

I find it sad that so many pastors often use historical facts when giving background of biblical events, yet are afraid to speak on the historic background of Abram's time.

4 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

SFIC Your proof is flawed, because this "king" you refer to was no ordinary king. Rather he was "Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;" The priest of the same most high God who led Abraham to leave "Ur of the Chaldees" by faith.

Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Now after you're done considering "how great this man was" consider Jesus Christ who gave himself for all men, how great this God is. Stop ranting about those who of our own free will give not only a tenth but more; including the wallet with the tenth, the pocket with the wallet, the pants with the pocket, and the man wearing the pants.

Though Melchizedek was Priest of the Most High God, he was still an ordinary king.

Without mother, without father, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life simply speaks of there being no record of who his parents were, where he was born, or where he died. 

He wasn't a Christophany.  He wasn't a Theophany.   He wasn't an angel.  He was a Canaanite king ruling over the city of Salem.

And, for the record, I said nothing of present day tither's. 

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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SFIC, you missed Hebrews 7:3, as clearly pointed out above by I Timothy 115. Melchisidec was "made like unto the son of God." He had "neither beginning of days nor ending of life"' That is not the description of a just a plain, ordinary Canaanite king. Maybe he wasn't a Christophany. Maybe he wasn't a Theophany. I don't know. I do agree he certainly wasn't an angel. But he was definitely was more than you give credence too.

And this has nothing to do with the tithe, I've already made my position clear on that subject. 

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48 minutes ago, weary warrior said:

SFIC, you missed Hebrews 7:3, as clearly pointed out above by I Timothy 115. Melchisidec was "made like unto the son of God." He had "neither beginning of days nor ending of life"' That is not the description of a just a plain, ordinary Canaanite king. Maybe he wasn't a Christophany. Maybe he wasn't a Theophany. I don't know. I do agree he certainly wasn't an angel. But he was definitely was more than you give credence too.

And this has nothing to do with the tithe, I've already made my position clear on that subject. 

Since Melchizedek/Melchisedec was, by interpretation, "king of righteousness" and "king of peace", I believe Hebrews 7:3 is referring to these qualities.

He didn't take a side and go to war with the five kings, nor with the four kings.  He stayed out of the battle.  He was indeed, a king of righteousness and peace.

 

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On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 9:08 AM, 1Timothy115 said:

SFIC Your proof is flawed, because this "king" you refer to was no ordinary king. Rather he was "Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;" The priest of the same most high God who led Abraham to leave "Ur of the Chaldees" by faith.

Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Now after you're done considering "how great this man was" consider Jesus Christ who gave himself for all men, how great this God is. Stop ranting about those who of our own free will give not only a tenth but more; including the wallet with the tenth, the pocket with the wallet, the pants with the pocket, and the man wearing the pants.

1Timothy115 is doctrinally correct.

SFIC reasoning is his own private interpretation and is really sad when he cannot see the clear teaching that 1Timothy 115 brought out in his reference to Hebrews 7:2-4

According to the clear teaching of scripture, Melchisedec as priest of the most High God and Abraham gave him the tithe as such. 

Alan 

Edited by Alan
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I never said Abram didn't give tithes to the Priest of the Most High God. 

My view is not "flawed" at all. 

Hebrews 7:2 is not saying that Melchizedek had no parents.  It simply means there is no genealogical record of who his parents were.  Nor is there a record of his birth, nor of his death.

Hebrews 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Melchizedek had a "descent".  He had a genealogy.  It is just not know who his parents were.  We do know the genealogy of Jesus Christ.  It is given in both the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke.

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On 4/26/2017 at 8:12 PM, Standing Firm In Christ said:

I have historical documentation that tells of the practice of giving war spoils to kings.  That's proof enough.
There's no biblical proof of a lot of things that are preached in our churches today.  But many are documented in historical records.

 

On 4/26/2017 at 8:18 PM, Standing Firm In Christ said:

"people didn't travel without food in those days. " 

Where's your "Biblical proof" for your claim?

**Scratches head** I really don't understand.

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9 hours ago, BroMatt said:

 

**Scratches head** I really don't understand.

Maybe I should have asked for either "biblical proof" or "historical proof".  The fact is, the claim that "people didn't travel without food in those days." was made without anything to substantiate the claim.

I've given the "historical proof" in the past that supports my claim that tithing of war spoils was done more than 285 years prior to Melchizedek receiving tithes of war spoils from Abram.  And the practice of tithing war spoils was practicced long after Abram was dead and gone.

Research "Struggle of Nation" by Oxford Professor Gaston Maspero, and Studies in Tithes Giving by Henry Lansdell.  Both authors from the end of the 19th Century wrote on kings receiving tithes of war spoils.   The British Musurm also has two clay tablets dated before Abram was even born that show the practice.

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