No One Can Come to Jesus Christ, Unless...

[Willo]

Acts 24 and 26 does not make any mention to one being drawn. All it shows that Paul preaches the gospel, someone gets convicted but clearly God doesn't give them the gift of faith or repentance.

As for your interpretation of John 6:37, while security is dealt with in this verse, you still fail to answer what does the "shall come" mean.

[JerryNumbers]

Acts 24 and 26 does not make any mention to one being drawn. All it shows that Paul preaches the gospel, someone gets convicted but clearly God doesn't give them the gift of faith or repentance.

As for your interpretation of John 6:37, while security is dealt with in this verse, you still fail to answer what does the "shall come" mean.

Your question has been answered, you refuse the answer.

Clearly in the Holy Scriptures they were under convictions, but refused to place their faith in Christ.

"...according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Romans 12:3 (KJV)

They had their measure of faith, but refused to excise it.

The free gift is Jesus, its up to each individual to accept this gift by repenting, confessing and accepting Christ as Savior. These 2 stopped short.

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17 (KJV)

Faith cometh by hearing, they heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ from the lips of Paul.

[Willo]

You haven't answered John 6, but rather you red herring. Refusing to even deal with the issue of "shall come". The interpretation you put forward does not fit the exegesis of the text, but rather leaves a "contradiction" in the Bible. As in one place you have "all who are drawn shall come" then you claim "someone can be drawn and yet not come". You cannot logically have it both way, unless you want to claim antinomy in the Scripture.

Also, I found a video on YouTube discussing the John 6 issue, it is between James White and Dave Hunt, it deals very much with the text, and also the Greek of the passage: http://sovereigntybaptist.blogspot.com/ ... -dave.html

[heartstrings]

Motive for to Coming to Jesus

Hungry for physical bread
Jhn 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Jhn 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Jhn 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Jhn 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Jhn 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Jhn 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Jhn 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Jhn 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

These people were not interested in the Bread of Life. They had seen Jesus do great miracles, but they were only seeking food. They had never "eaten" the "bread of Life" because in verse 36 Jesus says "ye have also seen me and beleive not; these people were not saved. But if you look in verses 27 and 32. Jesus says he is ready to give himself to them. The invitation is open, but they are unbelievers and are only intrerested in physical things.


Hungry for Jesus
Several places in this chapter, Jesus offers the "meat which endureth..." the "true bread from Heaven".
These people "came" to Jesus for physical bread, but they could never "come" to Jesus until they had been given "true Bread" from the Father. But unlike these unbeleivers, a true beleiver will be looking for the "true bread"

Jhn 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

All Every believer...read verse 39

that the Father giveth me....read verse 32

shall come to me...read verse 68 and 69

and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out....read verse 39 again

I think John 6:37 is simply saying that if the Father has put Jesus in your heart(verse 32), you wil be hungry for Jesus. And Jesus will never refuse you, reject you or put you away. It's about eternal security....Read verses 27 and 35. And once again, "shall come" means "it's going to happen". It means if you have Jesus in your heart, you will come to him when you are hungry.(verse 35) Now read verses 68 and 69 and you will see it in action.......Peter was depending on "the Bread of Life" . Peter was clearly hungry.

Jhn 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Jhn 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Jhn 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

[JerryNumbers]

You haven't answered John 6, but rather you red herring. Refusing to even deal with the issue of "shall come". The interpretation you put forward does not fit the exegesis of the text, but rather leaves a "contradiction" in the Bible. As in one place you have "all who are drawn shall come" then you claim "someone can be drawn and yet not come". You cannot logically have it both way, unless you want to claim antinomy in the Scripture.

Also, I found a video on YouTube discussing the John 6 issue, it is between James White and Dave Hunt, it deals very much with the text, and also the Greek of the passage: http://sovereigntybaptist.blogspot.com/ ... -dave.html

To be honest, I don't care what James White and Dave Hunt have to say, I've got a wonderful copy of God's Word. God's Word is the authority, not James White and Dave Hunt.

[Willo]

To be honest, I don't care what James White and Dave Hunt have to say, I've got a wonderful copy of God's Word. God's Word is the authority, not James White and Dave Hunt.

Agreed! The Bible is the only authority.

[Rob Hughes]

Friend, when a preacher presents you with the Gospel and you begin to consciously "reason" about the Righteousness of a Holy God, Temperance(contrasted with your own wicked sin) and Judgement (of sin and punishment in Hell) and then you get so scared that you tremble. that is being drawn by the Holy Ghost.

What support can you give that trembling at the thought of judgment is evidence that you are being drawn by the Holy Ghost? Do not confuse being convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit as the same as being drawn by the Holy Spirit. We are drawn (lit. in Greek, dragged) to Jesus by the Father through the power of the Spirit. Felix trembled because he had conviction. This was made manifest through the use of the law that appealed to his conscience. There was conviction of sin, as there ought to be, however, had God so regenerated his mind he would have run to the cross. Instead he ran from the cross. The law does its convicting work, but unless the Holy Spirit so transforms the heart and the mind no man will surrender his will to the will of God.

God bless,
Rob

[JerryNumbers]

Calvinist?

[heartstrings]

I'd say that was Calvinist.

[Rob Hughes]

Calvinist in my theology? Most definetly.

God is sovereign.

[deafnva77]

It's amazing how we can tell someone is a calvinist, COC, catholic, etc.. from their posts without them saying so. I read their posts, and I know exactly what they are.

[JerryNumbers]

It's amazing how we can tell someone is a calvinist' date=' COC, catholic, etc.. from their posts without them saying so. I read their posts, and I know exactly what they are.[/quote']

So true, they try to take the free will that God gives man away from man and therefore makes a robot out of him.

The thing about it, there are many who believe that stuff.

[trc123]

God may know; but we don't ....... so keep on preaching the Gospel and obeying the great commission!

[heartstrings]

What support can you give that trembling at the thought of judgment is evidence that you are being drawn by the Holy Ghost? Do not confuse being convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit as the same as being drawn by the Holy Spirit.

Because that is the way the Holy Spirit draws. Sir, If you were not convicted of your sin, did not acknowledge the righteousness of God(He is Holy, mercifuf, gave Himself for you and loves you) and the judgment of God(realize there was something to be saved from), you didn't get saved. The Comforter, the Holy Spirit, is God, the third Person of the Trinity. The Bible says that the Comforter convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. The Bible says that faith cometh by hearing. This man, Felix, was being convicted by the Holy Spirit as he HEARD the Gospel.. Why would the Holy Spirit work his work on this man if this man could not be saved anyway? Why did Felix not get saved? Because God allows a man to say YES or NO.

John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

We are drawn (lit. in Greek, dragged) to Jesus by the Father through the power of the Spirit. Felix trembled because he had conviction. This was made manifest through the use of the law that appealed to his conscience. There was conviction of sin, as there ought to be, however, had God so regenerated his mind he would have run to the cross. Instead he ran from the cross. The law does its convicting work, but unless the Holy Spirit so transforms the heart and the mind no man will surrender his will to the will of God.

God bless,
Rob

So let me get this straight.....
God decided, before the foundation of the world, that His purpose and plan for Felix was Hell. But just to be cruel, though knowing Felix had "total inability" to respond, God toyed with Felix's Conscience a little bit, and even though Felix had a "will", he was totally without the ability to use that will to simply say "yes" to God?

[Guest Guest]

God may know; but we don't ....... so keep on preaching the Gospel and obeying the great commission!

trc. :smile I have heard so many believers say that they "give up" on people and thus stop witnessing to them. What?! There is hope for everyone, b/c we are human beings, and we can't possibly know the mind of God. We have no idea when or if that glorious day will come for the lost to come to Christ through faith. If believers ( not just Baptists) gave up on witnessing to my wretched soul. Well...you know? :loco