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Willo

No One Can Come to Jesus Christ, Unless...

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No One Can Come to Jesus Christ, Unless...
1. Unless he is part of "the world"... John 3:16
2. Unless it's God's will... 2 Peter 3:9
3. Unless God is drawing him... John 6:44
4. Unless he is one of those included in......... "all men" John 12:32, Acts 17:30, 2 peter 3:9

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No One Can Come to Jesus Christ, Unless...
1. Unless he is part of "the world"... John 3:16
2. Unless it's God's will... 2 Peter 3:9
3. Unless God is drawing him... John 6:44
4. Unless he is one of those included in......... "all men" John 12:32, Acts 17:30, 2 peter 3:9



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No One Can Come to Jesus Christ, Unless...
1. Unless he is part of "the world"... John 3:16


Agreed, anyone that is to be saved, must be apart of the world. Also, it should be noted that John uses "world" in 14 different ways throughout his writings, so in this context what is the "world" spoken of here?

2. Unless it's God's will... 2 Peter 3:9


Again, agreed. It is God's will that those whom He calls will come to Him. Notice that in 2 Peter 3:9 that it is talking to the "us", who is the "us" in that passage?

3. Unless God is drawing him... John 6:44


If you aren't drawn, then you won't come.

4. Unless he is one of those included in......... "all men" John 12:32, Acts 17:30, 2 peter 3:9


John 12:32, context, who is the "all" spoken of there? Is it literally all men? If so then all will be saved as in John 6 it says that "all who are drawn WILL come." Or, could it be "all" in the context of who Jesus is speaking to? (i.e. Greeks among a Jewish audience: see John 12:20, thus showing that salvation isn't just for the Jews but for all nations).

Acts 17:30 - God commands all men to repent, Amen! But, one must also take into account that man cannot repent unless God grants him the ability (2 Tim. 2:25).

2 Peter 3:9 - again, context who is the "us" spoken of in this passage? If we are to apply hermeneutics to this passage and exegete it correct, who is the passage talking about and to?

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If so then all will be saved as in John 6 it says that "all who are drawn WILL come."
Felix was being drawn by the awsome power of the Holy Ghost, but he did not come. God will draw you in love, but He is a gentleman. You have the option of saying no if you want to. Felix did. I believe John 6:37 is not saying what you think it is.


Notice......

Jhn 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. You might think that "giveth me" means "giveth to me", but I don't think that's it at all. *But I could be wrong* Back up to verse 32.......

Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

So what does the Father give? Verse 32 says "the true bread". Who is "the true bread"? Jesus

He gives us Jesus when we get saved. Based on that, "Giveth me" in verse 37 Is not talking about the Father "giving us to Jesus" it's talking about "Giving Jesus to us". If you don't see it, read the two verses again carefully. When a person beieves on Jesus, the Father gives him Jesus, the Bread of Life, in his heart. He now has a new appetite, and a hunger for Jesus and will come to Jesus to satisfy that hunger.

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You quoted John 6:37 maybe you could explain it:

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

What does it mean "shall come"? Does it mean "shall come, unless of course he decideds not to?" or does it mean "that those who the Father draws will come?"

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You quoted John 6:37 maybe you could explain it:

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

What does it mean "shall come"? Does it mean "shall come, unless of course he decideds not to?" or does it mean "that those who the Father draws will come?"


When Jesus uses the words "Shall come", it mean's it's going to happen.

or does it mean "that those who the Father draws will come?"
Felix the governor was drawn by the Holy Spirit, but he was never given the Bread of Life because he never believed on the Lord Jesus. Not everyone who is drawn believes and gets saved. But those who have already believed on Jesus(the Bread of life) will come to Him over and over again...not for salvation, but because they are hungry. And the only thing that can satisfy the spiritual hunger of a child of God is Jesus...

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When Jesus uses the words "Shall come", it mean's it's going to happen.


So, if God draws someone they will come. If that is true then you have a problem with your below statement. The options you have are: 1) The Bible has a contradiction, or 2) You are wrong. Since you make the case that Felix was "drawn" yet he never came. If Felix was truly drawn by the Father, and yet somehow refused to come, then Jesus got it wrong in John 6:37, is that what you are saying?

Felix the governor was drawn by the Holy Spirit, but he was never given the Bread of Life because he never believed on the Lord Jesus. Not everyone who is drawn believes and gets saved. But those who have already believed on Jesus(the Bread of life) will come to Him over and over again...not for salvation, but because they are hungry. And the only thing that can satisfy the spiritual hunger of a child of God is Jesus...


This statement contradicts your first statement, based on the logic law of non-contradiction both statements cannot be correct. If "shall come" means it will happen, then your statement "Not everyone who is drawn believes and gets saved." is incorrect. But, if the latter is correct, then the former is wrong. Which is it?

Also, could you please show me the verse where it states that Felix was drawn by the Father.

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Also, could you please show me the verse where it states that Felix was drawn by the Father.

I did not use the phrase "drawn by the Father", I said......
Felix the governor was drawn by the Holy Spirit,


There is no verse; I compared scripture with scripture. Felix was under Holy Ghost conviction.

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Act 24:24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.
Act 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

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Look at the context. If you apply the analogy of Scripture as a whole, you would have to conclude based on John 6:37 that Felix was not drawn. Thus is why He did not come.

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Look at the context. If you apply the analogy of Scripture as a whole' date=' you would have to conclude based on John 6:37 that Felix was not drawn. Thus is why He did not come.[/quote']

He may well have been drawn, but being drawn does not mean the Holy Spirit will force one to come against their own free will.

So it surely seems that God was drawing Him, but like many others, he rejected, put it off to another time, perhaps to long, them died in his sins.

No where in the Bible does it declare that God, Jesus, nor the Holy Spirit will over ride ones free will.

Of course there are those who claim that the elect will be given so much grace they cannot refuse, which is not taught in the Bible.

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Look at the context. If you apply the analogy of Scripture as a whole' date=' you would have to conclude based on John 6:37 that Felix was not drawn. Thus is why He did not come.[/quote']

Act 24:24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.
Act 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

Friend, when a preacher presents you with the Gospel and you begin to consciously "reason" about the Righteousness of a Holy God, Temperance(contrasted with your own wicked sin) and Judgement (of sin and punishment in Hell) and then you get so scared that you tremble. that is being drawn by the Holy Ghost.

The man made a conscious choice to put it off. He did not want to give up the world just yet.

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He may well have been drawn, but being drawn does not mean the Holy Spirit will force one to come against their own free will.

So it surely seems that God was drawing Him, but like many others, he rejected, put it off to another time, perhaps to long, them died in his sins.

No where in the Bible does it declare that God, Jesus, nor the Holy Spirit will over ride ones free will.

Of course there are those who claim that the elect will be given so much grace they cannot refuse, which is not taught in the Bible.


How would you explain John 6:37:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

What does "Shall come" mean? If someone is drawn by the Father, will they come, or can they make a choice not to come? What does the Scripture say?

Also, to address freewill, could you please define what you mean by "freewill" as I have heard many definitions on what it actually is.

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You still have the problem of addressing John 6:37, IF someone is drawn, does the verse say they will come. or does it say "they may come if they choose to".

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Agrippa nor Festus did not do the 'shall come' but yet they were drawn, and of his own free will he chose to reject Jesus as Savior.

If he had come Jesus would have in no wise cast him out.

25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
Acts 24:25 (KJV)

28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
Acts 26:28 (KJV)

Surely even you, if your very old, have seen these same situations, where one almost comes to Christ, but at the last moment does not.

Perhaps you stood many times during the invitations just nearly stepping out and going forward, but didn't.

As earlier said, many refuse Jesus for they feel they will have to give up to much.


"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37:

Security, for him that cometh will no wise be cast out.

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Acts 24 and 26 does not make any mention to one being drawn. All it shows that Paul preaches the gospel, someone gets convicted but clearly God doesn't give them the gift of faith or repentance.

As for your interpretation of John 6:37, while security is dealt with in this verse, you still fail to answer what does the "shall come" mean.

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Acts 24 and 26 does not make any mention to one being drawn. All it shows that Paul preaches the gospel, someone gets convicted but clearly God doesn't give them the gift of faith or repentance.

As for your interpretation of John 6:37, while security is dealt with in this verse, you still fail to answer what does the "shall come" mean.


Your question has been answered, you refuse the answer.

Clearly in the Holy Scriptures they were under convictions, but refused to place their faith in Christ.

"...according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Romans 12:3 (KJV)

They had their measure of faith, but refused to excise it.

The free gift is Jesus, its up to each individual to accept this gift by repenting, confessing and accepting Christ as Savior. These 2 stopped short.

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17 (KJV)

Faith cometh by hearing, they heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ from the lips of Paul.

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You haven't answered John 6, but rather you red herring. Refusing to even deal with the issue of "shall come". The interpretation you put forward does not fit the exegesis of the text, but rather leaves a "contradiction" in the Bible. As in one place you have "all who are drawn shall come" then you claim "someone can be drawn and yet not come". You cannot logically have it both way, unless you want to claim antinomy in the Scripture.

Also, I found a video on YouTube discussing the John 6 issue, it is between James White and Dave Hunt, it deals very much with the text, and also the Greek of the passage: http://sovereigntybaptist.blogspot.com/ ... -dave.html

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Motive for to Coming to Jesus

Hungry for physical bread
Jhn 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Jhn 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Jhn 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Jhn 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Jhn 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Jhn 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Jhn 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Jhn 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

These people were not interested in the Bread of Life. They had seen Jesus do great miracles, but they were only seeking food. They had never "eaten" the "bread of Life" because in verse 36 Jesus says "ye have also seen me and beleive not; these people were not saved. But if you look in verses 27 and 32. Jesus says he is ready to give himself to them. The invitation is open, but they are unbelievers and are only intrerested in physical things.


Hungry for Jesus
Several places in this chapter, Jesus offers the "meat which endureth..." the "true bread from Heaven".
These people "came" to Jesus for physical bread, but they could never "come" to Jesus until they had been given "true Bread" from the Father. But unlike these unbeleivers, a true beleiver will be looking for the "true bread"

Jhn 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

All Every believer...read verse 39

that the Father giveth me....read verse 32

shall come to me...read verse 68 and 69

and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out....read verse 39 again

I think John 6:37 is simply saying that if the Father has put Jesus in your heart(verse 32), you wil be hungry for Jesus. And Jesus will never refuse you, reject you or put you away. It's about eternal security....Read verses 27 and 35. And once again, "shall come" means "it's going to happen". It means if you have Jesus in your heart, you will come to him when you are hungry.(verse 35) Now read verses 68 and 69 and you will see it in action.......Peter was depending on "the Bread of Life" . Peter was clearly hungry.

Jhn 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Jhn 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Jhn 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

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You haven't answered John 6, but rather you red herring. Refusing to even deal with the issue of "shall come". The interpretation you put forward does not fit the exegesis of the text, but rather leaves a "contradiction" in the Bible. As in one place you have "all who are drawn shall come" then you claim "someone can be drawn and yet not come". You cannot logically have it both way, unless you want to claim antinomy in the Scripture.

Also, I found a video on YouTube discussing the John 6 issue, it is between James White and Dave Hunt, it deals very much with the text, and also the Greek of the passage: http://sovereigntybaptist.blogspot.com/ ... -dave.html


To be honest, I don't care what James White and Dave Hunt have to say, I've got a wonderful copy of God's Word. God's Word is the authority, not James White and Dave Hunt.

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To be honest, I don't care what James White and Dave Hunt have to say, I've got a wonderful copy of God's Word. God's Word is the authority, not James White and Dave Hunt.


Agreed! The Bible is the only authority.

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Friend, when a preacher presents you with the Gospel and you begin to consciously "reason" about the Righteousness of a Holy God, Temperance(contrasted with your own wicked sin) and Judgement (of sin and punishment in Hell) and then you get so scared that you tremble. that is being drawn by the Holy Ghost.


What support can you give that trembling at the thought of judgment is evidence that you are being drawn by the Holy Ghost? Do not confuse being convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit as the same as being drawn by the Holy Spirit. We are drawn (lit. in Greek, dragged) to Jesus by the Father through the power of the Spirit. Felix trembled because he had conviction. This was made manifest through the use of the law that appealed to his conscience. There was conviction of sin, as there ought to be, however, had God so regenerated his mind he would have run to the cross. Instead he ran from the cross. The law does its convicting work, but unless the Holy Spirit so transforms the heart and the mind no man will surrender his will to the will of God.

God bless,
Rob

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