Limited on the OB forum...

[Genevanpreacher]

On 11/19/2016 at 0:27 PM, MountainChristian said:

If the rapture is moved to Rev 20, then a problem occurs with 1 Thessalonians 5:9 “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” and Revelation 16 ...."Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth."

Most get stuck on the word "wrath" and ignore the words "God hath not appointed us".

The Lord hasn't designed us or made us to be in "wrath" (hell/lake of fire). We are saved through Christ Jesus by obtaining salvation through belief in the Son of God.

Destroys predestinational concepts.

[MountainChristian]

So there is 3.5 years we are not appointed to. Then moving back again to chapter 6 when the Lamb's wrath begins. In chapters 4 & 5 John is telling is what Heaven is like and nothing wrathful occurs. So that would give us another 3.5 years of the Lamb's wrath. 7 years so far. 

What isn't talked about, another 3.5 years is needed for Israelis to bury all the dead from Magog before the Antichrist runs them out of Israel.

[Invicta]

Brother Ken

I am sorry but I can't  follow your logic here.

On 21/11/2016 at 9:55 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

 

Destroys predestinational concepts.

How?

[Genevanpreacher]

42 minutes ago, Invicta said:

Brother Ken

I am sorry but I can't  follow your logic here.

Me either David.

43 minutes ago, Invicta said:

How?

Because it says that the Lord "hath not appointed us". You know - he had no pre-thought-out appointment for us to be in his "wrath" - which in this verse he contradistincts with "salvation" - so he means hells punishments - not keeping us protected during the 'tribulation'.

[Invicta]

1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Me either David.

Because it says that the Lord "hath not appointed us". You know - he had no pre-thought-out appointment for us to be in his "wrath" - which in this verse he contradistincts with "salvation" - so he means hells punishments - not keeping us protected during the 'tribulation'.

Not appointed us to wrath, but that surely means that he has appointed unbelievers to wrath.

[Genevanpreacher]

2 hours ago, Invicta said:

Not appointed us to wrath, but that surely means that he has appointed unbelievers to wrath.

Agreed.

But that is the end result of their non-belief in Jesus Christ. Not his 'creating them for wrath'.

Just as Believers are appointed to heaven - as the end result of their belief in Jesus Christ.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Genevanpreacher

[MountainChristian]

Is Tribulations the same as the wrath of God? While you are alive is the wrath of God on you? While you are alive can the wrath of God come upon you?

 

[Genevanpreacher]

5 minutes ago, MountainChristian said:

Is Tribulations the same as the wrath of God? While you are alive is the wrath of God on you? While you are alive can the wrath of God come upon you?

 

No they are not the same. At least not in the verses we are talking about above in our recent postings.

[Invicta]

No they are NOT the same.  We are not appointed to wrath but John 16:33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. Not appointed to wrath but we will have tribulation.  Acts 14, Paul and Barnabas .............when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, 22  Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.    Paul speaks a lot about tribulation in the church, here are a few examples. Rom. 8:35  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom. 12:12  Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
2 Cor 1:4  Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

Revelation also mentions this

Rev. 1:9  I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev.2:9  I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

One of our deacons has said that he did not believe the church would go through tribulation.  On another site forum, a Baptist minister said all tribulations are on the Church,  Both are equally false statements.

 

 

[MountainChristian]

The wrath of God is poured out on the earth so is the church on the earth? Will the wrath of God be poured out on the church?

[Genevanpreacher]

2 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

The wrath of God is poured out on the earth so is the church on the earth? Will the wrath of God be poured out on the church?

Ask these questions to yourself:

- Did the Lord put his wrath upon Noah and his family?

- Did the Lord bring wrath upon Lot?

- Did the Lord bring wrath upon anyone who was his child when he was punishing the heathen?

- Will God bring wrath upon his enemies? 

- What is the final wrath?

- Isn't the final wrath of God Hell and then the Lake of fire?

When you answer these questions correctly, you will know the answers to your above questions.

[MountainChristian]

6 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Ask these questions to yourself:

- Did the Lord put his wrath upon Noah and his family?

- Did the Lord bring wrath upon Lot?

- Did the Lord bring wrath upon anyone who was his child when he was punishing the heathen?

- Will God bring wrath upon his enemies? 

- What is the final wrath?

- Isn't the final wrath of God Hell and then the Lake of fire?

When you answer these questions correctly, you will know the answers to your above questions.

- Did the Lord put his wrath upon Noah and his family? No, they escaped in the ark.

- Did the Lord bring wrath upon Lot? No, The Angels brought him forth, and set him without the city

- Did the Lord bring wrath upon anyone who was his child when he was punishing the heathen? No, Jesus alone was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

- Will God bring wrath upon his enemies? Yes

- What is the final wrath? When God burns up the earth and hell. When the elements melt, after the 1000 reign. 

- Isn't the final wrath of God Hell and then the Lake of fire? No. Hell is a location. Lake of Fire is a future location. Wrath is an emotion that will start a fire that shall burn up the earth and hell. 

The Church is looking to escape like Noah in the Ark, and like Lot by the angels' hands. We will be set outside the earth when God's wrath comes upon it. If God's wrath was only coming upon a percent of the earth we would look to be moved to a safe area, but His wrath is coming upon the whole world, all of the earth. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by MountainChristian
removing a big space

[Genevanpreacher]

11 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

- Did the Lord put his wrath upon Noah and his family? No, they escaped in the ark.

- Did the Lord bring wrath upon Lot? No, The Angels brought him forth, and set him without the city

- Did the Lord bring wrath upon anyone who was his child when he was punishing the heathen? No, Jesus alone was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

- Will God bring wrath upon his enemies? Yes

- What is the final wrath? When God burns up the earth and hell. When the elements melt, after the 1000 reign. 

- Isn't the final wrath of God Hell and then the Lake of fire? No. Hell is a location. Lake of Fire is a future location. Wrath is an emotion that will start a fire that shall burn up the earth and hell. 

The Church is looking to escape like Noah in the Ark, (yes they erroneously are) and like Lot by the angels' hands. We will be set outside the earth when God's wrath comes upon it. If God's wrath was only coming upon a percent of the earth (like with Noah right? No.) we would look to be moved to a safe area, but *His wrath is coming upon the whole world, all of the earth. 

*Is it?

Also the Ark didn't leave the earth did it? And judgement came upon the whole earth.

Any wrath upon the earth by God will be a time that the Lord protects his own. Whether the whole earth or the country we live in.

And no, wrath is not an emotion but an action.

 

2 Thess. 1 -

7  And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord*, and from the glory of his power;

10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

And -

5  For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6  Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

 

Because they are going to be separated from God* by being in Hell and eventually in the lake of fire.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Genevanpreacher

[Jim_Alaska]

 Ex 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD. 
 13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.