Wise Counsel (work situation)

[Wmccarthy99 43]

I' am in need of a little good counselling on a situation with my job. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated. 

I have been remodeling this house for about 4 months or so now. It belongs to my friends mom. Before she bought it I already knew that I'd be working on it. She professes to be a Christian but she lives with a man who she is not married to, who also says he's a Christian. Anyways she bought the house and has moved in with this man, and I have been their main helper on the project. After a couple months I started wondering whether or not God wants me helping these people with their house. The way I see it is I am helping them make their place into a nice cozy place where they can live on in their fornication as long as they want.

If they did not profess to be Christian's then I probably wouldn't be thinking twice about it other than to witness to them and pray for them. If I was working for them but it was for a professional business that had nothing to do with where they live I probably would not see an issue with it either. Is there any place in God's Word that would tell me it is wrong for me to be helping them with their house?

The only scripture that comes to mind for me is 1 Cor 5:11; but now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one do not eat.

(One day I talked with the man and asked him if they were ever going to get married, and he said yes. I said that would be great and that that would probably be better in God's eyes. He told me he wasn't concerned about that and that God was not pulling on his heart about it. This same man told me he doesn't go to church because he says there is too many "enforcers" there. As a boss, I've come to respect the man, but his spiritual condition is not looking good.)

 

[Alan 3,179]

As you are helping a friend of the family, and not a family member, with remodeling work on the house, I would suggest you start stop working for free and charge as a professional for your time and labor.

I applaud your Christian ethics and witness. But, it seems that they may be taking advantage of your Christian ethics.  Remodeling work is not only hard work, but, it is a professional trade and worthy of your hire. You have been working for free and I would suggest you change that situation as soon as possible. A lot of good Christian workman are an excellent testimoney and they charge for their work accordingly.

When the Lord Jesus sent His twelve apostles to preach, He added a phrase at the end of one of His admonitions that I think is pertinent to every type of work: "... :for the workman is worthy of his meat." Matthew 10:10b

As a Christian laborer you are worthy of your hire. I would inform them, very politely, that from now on you will start charging them for future work; but you would not charge them for work done previously. To me, that would be very generous.

Hope it works out well.

Alan

Edited September 16, 2016 by Alan

[Wmccarthy99 43]

On 9/15/2016 at 8:47 PM, Alan said:

 

As you are helping a friend of the family, and not a family member, with remodeling work on the house, I would suggest you start stop working for free and charge as a professional for your time and labor.

 

I'm sorry Alan, I'm not sure where I might have made it seem that I'm not getting paid. They do pay me.

My issue was whether or not it is right to be working on the house seeing that they are living there together unmarried. I talked to my pastor about it the other day and he said I should keep the job and just pray for the opportunity to be a good witness to them. Another man I go to church with thought maybe I should look for a different job. I was just feeling guilty and wondering if God's word has anything to say about this. I'm probably just taking this whole thing a little far... I have a tendency to do that. 

 

[DaveW 4,078]

I would probably take two things into account:

• Is there opportunity to influence closer to the Lord. If yes, then it may be worth staying with that as your primary goal. If no, then you really have to consider the next point.
• How is your own conscience about the matter? 1 Cor ch 8 and ch 10 both talk about a man's conscience, and 1 Tim 4:2 talks about the danger of a seared conscience. If your own conscience is causing you trouble over it......

Those two things - is there possibility to bring them closer to the Lord, and are you in danger of searing your conscience? 

Only you really know these answers.

[Wmccarthy99 43]

38 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Those two things - is there possibility to bring them closer to the Lord, and are you in danger of searing your conscience? 

Only you really know these answers.

My conscience does not always feel right about it, and the only way that I've been able to justify it is by looking at it as a way of bringing them closer to the Lord. 

I like what you say about seeing if it's worth making the witnessing the primary goal. That is a good idea. I do worry about them, actually I work for a few different people right now that seem to be very backsliden or at the worst nominal Christians, it's becoming a pattern. 

I will say that because of working for this couple, I had the opportunity to meet the neighbor and do some work for him as well and got to share my faith with him. He's asked me to keep working for him from time to time.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Wmccarthy99

[Brother Stafford 381]

I don't think that God specifically addresses being employed by Christians who are living in fornication.  Here is what I would do it it were me in your situation.

If they were engaging in fornication in another room while I was there working or were being lovey-dovey-kissey-poo in front of me, then I would tell them that I was no longer comfortable working for them and that they should start looking for another contractor.  

If they are not home while I was working, or if they were just there watching television or paying bills or something, then I would treat it like any other job and mind my own business.

Of course, if you are just too uncomfortable with just being there, knowing what you know, you have every right to tell them that you need to spend your time elsewhere and just stop working for them.

[Wmccarthy99 43]

5 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

If they were engaging in fornication in another room while I was there working or were being lovey-dovey-kissey-poo in front of me, then I would tell them that I was no longer comfortable working for them and that they should start looking for another contractor.  

Fortunately it's nothing like that. It's really just a very sad situation, I guess I just feel that I am somehow supporting they're sin.

[Brother Stafford 381]

2 minutes ago, Wmccarthy99 said:

...I guess I just feel that I am somehow supporting they're sin.

You are supporting your family.  They are supporting their sin.  

[Alan 3,179]

Wmccarthy99,

Thank you for setting me straight. Due to the post I assumed an incorrect assumption.

To me, it seems like your pastor is giving you some wise counsel. As time progresses, you should have more opportunities to witness. And, Brother Stafford was correct, you are supporting your family; you are not supporting their sin.

It almost seems in our day an age many folks enjoy living in open shame. "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:32

Regards,

Alan

[John Young 533]

If they are members of your church or you all consider each other in a "brothers in Christ" relationship then you would would be supporting them because we are called to help each other in submission to God. However, if you have no spiritual obligation to each other and you are only working for them in the capacity of a contractor who was referred to them and not as a "brother in Christ" then they can more or less probably be considered the same as another heathen in the world that you exchange services for money to provide for yourself and your family. That is if your conscience will have it.

Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

1 Corinthians 5:9-12 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

Edited September 17, 2016 by John Young

[swathdiver 1,754]

On 9/15/2016 at 11:06 PM, Wmccarthy99 said:

This same man told me he doesn't go to church because he says there is too many "enforcers" there. As a boss, I've come to respect the man, but his spiritual condition is not looking good.)

Just another lame excuse to keep the world in the spotlight and the things of God away, far away from his darkened heart.

If I were in your shoes, I'd witness to them, share the Gospel and let them "Christians" know that livin' together is a sin against God and they ought to get right with the Lord about it right quick.  Then I wouldn't tarry long until deciding to leave lest anyone think I condone such behavior and hurt my testimony.  If you have children, they may see that you think it's (fornicatin') alright by your refusal to separate from the presence of evil.

I worked for two different men over the years who began to cheat on their wives, I resigned quickly.  I worked for a man who was a professing Christian but loved the things of the world more than the things of God, he had no salvation testimony and made fun of my faith, I resigned quickly.

Either my boss is a genuine believer or I work for myself, no more heathens.  Course, my ultimate boss is Jesus Christ!

[Brother Stafford 381]

10 hours ago, swathdiver said:

Just another lame excuse to keep the world in the spotlight and the things of God away, far away from his darkened heart.

If I were in your shoes, I'd witness to them, share the Gospel and let them "Christians" know that livin' together is a sin against God and they ought to get right with the Lord about it right quick.  Then I wouldn't tarry long until deciding to leave lest anyone think I condone such behavior and hurt my testimony.  If you have children, they may see that you think it's (fornicatin') alright by your refusal to separate from the presence of evil.

I worked for two different men over the years who began to cheat on their wives, I resigned quickly.  I worked for a man who was a professing Christian but loved the things of the world more than the things of God, he had no salvation testimony and made fun of my faith, I resigned quickly.

Either my boss is a genuine believer or I work for myself, no more heathens.  Course, my ultimate boss is Jesus Christ!

You have changed my view on this.  Scripture says so much about this subject that I am embarrassed about my previous posts on this matter.  Consider these verses:  Matthew 18:15-17, Romans 16:17-18, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 2 Thessalonians 3:14, 1 Timothy 6:3-5, 2 Timothy 3:2-5, Titus 3:10-11, 2 John 1:10-11 &c.  Open and unrepentant fornication and, not only forsaking the assembly of believers, but condemning it, would qualify for separation, I believe.

Wmccarthy99, I believe that your initial instincts were correct and that swathdiver's post, which I have quoted in this response, is much more in line with Scripture than what I previously shared.  I use 1 Thessalonians 5:22 quite a bit to discern the proper action to take in questionable situations and should have known better.

Brother David Cloud has fantastic teachings on the subject of separation.  He makes them available for free in eBook form and video format:

Biblical Separatism Video Series.  The Collapse of Biblical Separatism eBook

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Brother Stafford

[Wmccarthy99 43]

Thank you Swath and Brother Stafford. I'm going to hand out some resumes today.

 

[Wmccarthy99 43]

I Got a job Praise God! In two weeks I'll be being trained on small engine repair! Thank you to everyone for your  input and anyone that has prayed!

[Brother Stafford 381]

54 minutes ago, Wmccarthy99 said:

In two weeks I'll be being trained on small engine repair!

Now you can help Ken get that jalopy out of Barbie's driveway!