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Preaching Preference


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16 hours ago, (Omega) said:

Hi Brother Scott,

Thank you for replying back. I just wanted to mention from the outset that I DO believe that Jesus did more TEACHING than PREACHING (Matt.4:23; 5:2;7:28-29; 28:19; 13:37; 4:33; Mk.4:2;34; 6:44; Lk.4:15; 5:3; 8:11; 24:27; Jn.3:2; 7:14;8:2; 2nd Jn.1:9). The issue (and the problem) is the way these words are used in the contemporary church-visible -- not what terms they may correspond to in the Bible. When someone tells me that so and so is going to "preach a sermon", I have a definite expectation because I know what a "sermon" is and also what "preaching" one means.  I expect to be harangued for the better part of an hour with rising tones and rhetoric, bombarded by illustrations and "stories", and, in many cases, manipulated emotionally with heavy doses of guilt designed to get me to 1) "join"; 2) give (maybe even tithe); 3) work (at things this church wants done); and 4) "bring" others along to do 1-3 as well. What I DO NOT expect is to be taught anything about the truth resident in the scriptures.  On the contrary, I expect to be subjected to a lot of half truths and erroneous "guestimations" of what this "preacher" thinks may be the truth based upon his poor preparation, sloppy approach, and questionable motivations: wanting fame, money and power -- or as he would put it, a larger witness, more resources for the ministry and a greater influence in the community "for Christ".        

I have read the gospels MANY times -- in Greek as well as in English.  What Jesus did was teach the truth.  It's OK if one want to call that "preaching", I suppose, but given what "preaching" means in the church-visible today, I think it is insult to attribute that sort of palaver and pusillanimous conduct to our dear Lord.  He wielded the sword of the Spirit, the truth of the Word of God, like no other.  We are supposed to follow His example. But I find the exact opposite happening in the vast majority of churches today.  The only differences between most of them are the ones you note:  differences is style.  If someone is engaged in pornography, the "style" of it hardly matters since it is wrong whatever the "style".  Similarly, if someone is promoting false positions from false motivations and failing entirely in the mandate our Lord has given, the style doesn't matter, nor do the terms with which we may wish to describe what they are doing.  The main thing is to stay away from such nonsense and seek instead a place where you can grow up spiritually through the Word of God so as to be able to mature and stand the test then help others do the same.  Everything else is a distraction at best and an invitation to a downward spiritual spiral at worst. If I skipped some of your questions, it's because I don't have a definitive answer to them. But I have put it on my "to do" list.   

God Bless!

If you get a concordance and actually look it up, Jesus himself called what he did "preaching". And his preaching was chock full of stories, parables, similes, metaphors and simple illustrations of complex truths for the common man. And he didn't quote reams of Old Testament scripture while doing it. Just sayin'.

 

Mt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mt 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

 

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1 hour ago, (Omega) said:

There is a monumental difference between Jesus' parables and illustrations than what we find today in most churches; they are full of gibberish and has nothing to do with the truth or spiritual growth.

 

 

18 hours ago, (Omega) said:

 I expect to be harangued for the better part of an hour with rising tones and rhetoric, bombarded by illustrations and "stories", and, in many cases, manipulated emotionally with heavy doses of guilt designed to get me to 1) "join"; 2) give (maybe even tithe); 3) work (at things this church wants done); and 4) "bring" others along to do 1-3 as well. What I DO NOT expect is to be taught anything about the truth resident in the scriptures.  On the contrary, I expect to be subjected to a lot of half truths and erroneous "guestimations" of what this "preacher" thinks may be the truth based upon his poor preparation, sloppy approach, and questionable motivations: wanting fame, money and power -- or as he would put it, a larger witness, more resources for the ministry and a greater influence in the community "for Christ".        

I have read the gospels MANY times -- in Greek as well as in English.  What Jesus did was teach the truth.  It's OK if one want to call that "preaching", I suppose, but given what "preaching" means in the church-visible today, I think it is insult to attribute that sort of palaver and pusillanimous conduct to our dear Lord. 

First - I think at the bottom of everything, you and I would probably agree that there are a lot of "preachers" today that are not actually preaching. I guess what is bothering me a little this morning is how you are expressing your dissatisfaction with these fellows, and the broad brush you are painting with. I sincerely doubt that you have been in "most churches" to witness and judge their preaching. And even if you have, Romans 14 is very clear that it is not our job to judge another man's servant. These men are not ours to judge. If he IS a man of God, and we set him at naught because of the weakness of his preaching, we ourselves are in danger of being brought to task by the very one that both the preacher and we ourselves actually answer to.

Second - as I pointed out in the post above, Jesus' own messages consisted predominately of stories. This sticks in the craw of the scholars among us (I can't for the life of me picture Jesus pointing out how many different languages He could read the scripture in), but the watchword for all of Christ's messages (be they "preaching" or "teaching") was simplicity and commonality. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't speak in terms of pusillanimous conduct. As "the right kind" of preachers, we use a lot of scripture and scripture words in our preaching, but those we preach to often do not have the same foundation.

I have preached in the jungle of a 3rd world country to a crowd who were illiterate and unchurched. I had an interpreter who would translate for me, and beside him was another translator who would then translate his translation into a third language. A chicken came in strutting down the aisle, a dog came in chasing the chicken and then a naked baby came chasing the dog. Down the middle of the hut / building and up on the platform and around and around before the whole circus was eventually shooed outside. You learn to put the truth down on the dirt, where the meanest can grasp it. That means lots of stories and illustrations. Parables.

Remember this, and chew on it long and hard. Like it or not, preaching is not the end. It is only the means to an end. The TRUTH is the end. And as a preacher, if you loose sight of the end while focusing on the means and methodology, you eventually loose both the method and the message. I don't know you, Omega. You obviously hold the truth, and you sound really smart and educated. Most people are not scholars, however, and most people don't like being talked down to. Even from the pulpit. Especially from the pulpit.

Bottom line? While we agree that there is "wrong" preaching, there is no one RIGHT way to preach. With over 7 billion people on this planet speaking 7,000 living languages and representing almost as many unique, distinct cultures, don't put the delivery of the message in a box.

As I re-read this, it comes across as a rant, and Im almost hesitant to send it. It's not intended as such, and I have no heart to offend or get in a slug-fest over this. I just wanted to express my heart. Those on here who've known me for the last few years have learned to understand my plainness without taking it personal. I hope you can as well, for I truly dont mean this as harsh as it sounds.

 

Edited by weary warrior
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5 hours ago, weary warrior said:

First - I think at the bottom of everything, you and I would probably agree that there are a lot of "preachers" today that are not actually preaching. I guess what is bothering me a little this morning is how you are expressing your dissatisfaction with these fellows, and the broad brush you are painting with. I sincerely doubt that you have been in "most churches" to witness and judge their preaching. And even if you have, Romans 14 is very clear that it is not our job to judge another man's servant. These men are not ours to judge. If he IS a man of God, and we set him at naught because of the weakness of his preaching, we ourselves are in danger of being brought to task by the very one that both the preacher and we ourselves actually answer to.

Second - as I pointed out in the post above, Jesus' own messages consisted predominately of stories. This sticks in the craw of the scholars among us (I can't for the life of me picture Jesus pointing out how many different languages He could read the scripture in), but the watchword for all of Christ's messages (be they "preaching" or "teaching") was simplicity and commonality. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't speak in terms of pusillanimous conduct. As "the right kind" of preachers, we use a lot of scripture and scripture words in our preaching, but those we preach to often do not have the same foundation.

I have preached in the jungle of a 3rd world country to a crowd who were illiterate and unchurched. I had an interpreter who would translate for me, and beside him was another translator who would then translate his translation into a third language. A chicken came in strutting down the aisle, a dog came in chasing the chicken and then a naked baby came chasing the dog. Down the middle of the hut / building and up on the platform and around and around before the whole circus was eventually shooed outside. You learn to put the truth down on the dirt, where the meanest can grasp it. That means lots of stories and illustrations. Parables.

Remember this, and chew on it long and hard. Like it or not, preaching is not the end. It is only the means to an end. The TRUTH is the end. And as a preacher, if you loose sight of the end while focusing on the means and methodology, you eventually loose both the method and the message. I don't know you, Omega. You obviously hold the truth, and you sound really smart and educated. Most people are not scholars, however, and most people don't like being talked down to. Even from the pulpit. Especially from the pulpit.

Bottom line? While we agree that there is "wrong" preaching, there is no one RIGHT way to preach. With over 7 billion people on this planet speaking 7,000 living languages and representing almost as many unique, distinct cultures, don't put the delivery of the message in a box.

As I re-read this, it comes across as a rant, and Im almost hesitant to send it. It's not intended as such, and I have no heart to offend or get in a slug-fest over this. I just wanted to express my heart. Those on here who've known me for the last few years have learned to understand my plainness without taking it personal. I hope you can as well, for I truly dont mean this as harsh as it sounds.

Brother "Weary Warrior,"

I know that you did not right this to me, but to Brother Daniel.  However, I for one shall choose to take it in the spirit with which it was intended.

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