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Jordan Kurecki

Israel attacks U.S.

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5 hours ago, Brother D said:

The names of the twelve tribes are the patriarchs of the faith. 

Um, no. You really don't get it much clearer than 'the 12 tribes of the children of Israel'. To try to interpret that any other way is willful ignorance. 

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3 hours ago, Salyan said:

Um, no. You really don't get it much clearer than 'the 12 tribes of the children of Israel'. To try to interpret that any other way is willful ignorance. 

Got it in one - the problem that Brother D has I mean.

And of course spot on with the reference too.

 

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7 hours ago, Salyan said:

Um, no. You really don't get it much clearer than 'the 12 tribes of the children of Israel'. To try to interpret that any other way is willful ignorance. 

The New Testament calls Abraham our father, the father of Christians.  The patriarchs of the 12 tribes are the patriarchs of the Christian faith. The New Jerusalem that has their names is the church, we know because it's identified as the bride of Christ and Paul calls it our mother.

"Jews" are never mentioned in Revelation, accept for Jesus to call them the synagogue of Satan. The earthly Jerusalem is never mentioned, except when its called Sodom and Egypt.  You might accuse me of willful ignorance, but who is it ignoring the fact that "Jews" and Jerusalem have no place in Revelation except to be condemned 

 

 

 

 

 

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Revelation 21

9  And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

 10  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

 11  Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

 12  And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

 13  On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

 14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

In this instance the bride is clearly defined as the New Jerusalem, NOT "the church" - and we still ask "which church" are you referring to?

The twelve tribes are mentioned in co trait to the twelve Apostles - if anything in this was to refer to Christian's it would be the Apostles, not the twelve tribes, especially since the twelve tribes are identified in Revelation 7

4  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

 5  Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

 6  Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

 7  Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

 8  Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

How could God have said it more plainly than this that He is referring to the twelve actual tribes of Israel?

Don't let the truth hit you on your way out......

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14 hours ago, DaveW said:

Revelation 21

9  And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

 10  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

 11  Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

 12  And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

 13  On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

 14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

In this instance the bride is clearly defined as the New Jerusalem, NOT "the church" - and we still ask "which church" are you referring to?

The twelve tribes are mentioned in co trait to the twelve Apostles - if anything in this was to refer to Christian's it would be the Apostles, not the twelve tribes, especially since the twelve tribes are identified in Revelation 7

4  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

 5  Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

 6  Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

 7  Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

 8  Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

How could God have said it more plainly than this that He is referring to the twelve actual tribes of Israel?

Don't let the truth hit you on your way out......

90% of your post is verse quotes (and part of what's remaining is an insult or threat).  It's bizarre that people in the wrong think spamming verses somehow proves themselves right.   

Quote

In this instance the bride is clearly defined as the New Jerusalem, NOT "the church" - and we still ask "which church" are you referring to?

If it's so clear, how come you failed to offer even one bit of explanation for why the New Jerusalem is not the church.

How come you failed to offer even one bit of explanation for why my explanation is wrong for why it's the church?

How come you failed to offer even one bit of explanation for what you think the New Jerusalem is?

Quote

- and we still ask "which church" are you referring to?

The vast majority of Christians reading that would think "which church" is the most ridiculous question.  What do you think the options are?

Quote

The twelve tribes are mentioned in co trait to the twelve Apostles - if anything in this was to refer to Christian's it would be the Apostles, not the twelve tribes, especially since the twelve tribes are identified in Revelation 7

I don't know what you're trying to say.

Quote

How could God have said it more plainly than this that He is referring to the twelve actual tribes of Israel?

I don't know what you're trying to say.

Quote

Don't let the truth hit you on your way out......

The truth is on my side.

 

 

Edited by Brother D

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I will type this slowly so you can understand it.

Because

The

BIBLE

says 

It

Is

A

City.

The Bible even describes the size and materials of the city.

Secondly, exactly which church are you referring to?

Thirdly, how can you be critical of quoting the Bible ON A CHRISTIAN FORUM?

Fourthly, you don't know what I am trying to say because you don't want to.

The Bible is exceedingly clear on these points,and so quoting what the Bible ACTUALLY SAYS is sufficient to prove you wrong.

But you are not interested in what the Bible ACTUALLY SAYS because if people quote the actual words of the Bible it shows you to be wrong.

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On 7/12/2018 at 11:43 PM, DaveW said:

I will type this slowly so you can understand it.

Because

The

BIBLE

says 

It

Is

A

City.

The Bible even describes the size and materials of the city.

Secondly, exactly which church are you referring to?

Thirdly, how can you be critical of quoting the Bible ON A CHRISTIAN FORUM?

Fourthly, you don't know what I am trying to say because you don't want to.

The Bible is exceedingly clear on these points,and so quoting what the Bible ACTUALLY SAYS is sufficient to prove you wrong.

But you are not interested in what the Bible ACTUALLY SAYS because if people quote the actual words of the Bible it shows you to be wrong.

A city over 1,000 miles high?

It is also a woman, a bride.  How  can a literal city be a woman?

Babylon the Great is also a City and also a woman.  The harlot church, Rome and her fellow travellers,

 

 

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4 hours ago, Invicta said:

A city over 1,000 miles high?

It is also a woman, a bride.  How  can a literal city be a woman?

Babylon the Great is also a City and also a woman.  The harlot church, Rome and her fellow travellers,

 

 

Oh for goodness sake - read the description.

Revelation 21

9  And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

 10  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

 11  Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

 12  And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

 13  On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

 14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 15  And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

 16  And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

 17  And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

 18  And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

 19  And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

 20  The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

 21  And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

 22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

 23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

 24  And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

 25  And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

 

The angel measured it out for John.

It has the structure described, the wall described, the materials described.......

"Oh but you don't build with stuff like that".

I really hope you are not going to follow his line of "absurd, so it can't be literal".

If God wanted to describe a literal city, how could He have made it more plain?

Don't know about you, but My God is well able to build such a city.

4 hours ago, Invicta said:

A city over 1,000 miles high?

It is also a woman, a bride.  How  can a literal city be a woman?

Babylon the Great is also a City and also a woman.  The harlot church, Rome and her fellow travellers,

 

 

Do you know this guy from another forum?

Edited by DaveW

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7 hours ago, DaveW said:

The angel measured it out for John.

It has the structure described, the wall described, the materials described.......

"Oh but you don't build with stuff like that".

I really hope you are not going to follow his line of "absurd, so it can't be literal".

If God wanted to describe a literal city, how could He have made it more plain?

Don't know about you, but My God is well able to build such a city.

So you don't think the city is symbolic, but you do think the bride is?

Rev 21:16  And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

Edited by Invicta

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8 hours ago, DaveW said:

Revelation 21

9  And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

 10  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

The bride, the Lamb's wife, in this instance is absolutely figurative. It is the city that is literal for the angel shows him a fully described city.

 

How about the second part - do you know "Brother D" from another forum by amy chance?

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On 7/19/2018 at 1:34 PM, Invicta said:

So you don't think the city is symbolic, but you do think the bride is?

Rev 21:16  And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

Please don't misunderstand the question that I have asked twice now.

You are not responsible for the actions of any other person who signs up here. I am simply interested if you know some of these guys who periodically attack this forum on such issues which you are sympathetic with.

Since you have refused to answer I can only assume you do know "Brother D" from another forum.

On 7/19/2018 at 6:12 AM, DaveW said:

Do you know this guy from another forum?

It is not up to you to deal with them, and unless you are encouraging them it is not your fault nor responsibility. (And I am not suggesting you ARE in any way encouraging them).

I asked out of interest and it interests me more since you ignored it.

Edited by DaveW

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