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What must I do to be saved?


coc333

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So, according to a "coc'er";

"Suzy Q" is bedridden, a lost wicked sinner. She is witnessed to about the Lord Jesus Christ, convicted of her sin, repents of her wickedness and places her faith in the Lord Jesus and Him alone. But dies before she could/and maybe she could not go through a baptism.


Where would Suzy Q go?

To Hell, according to COC doctrine. God's mercy is limited to those who complete the necessary work, that being baptism. It is a works/faith belief and attacks the sufficiency of Christ's work on the cross by adding our own feeble and vain efforts to the scenario. Man is totally degenerate and wholly incapable of doing anything to effectuate his own salvation, which is precisely what he is doing if he required to fulfill a deed for salvation.
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who is the they? the coc?

and what was the different dispensation at that time?

Did dispensations switch for one day and then back to something else?


mksj1611,

Greetings! Thank you for your posts. As I stated in my last post, I am not going to continue to post in response to the same disproven arguments. But, since you have just joined the discussion and have some questions, I will say this much:

If you are interested in the truth and are willing to look at what the Bible does in fact say about these things, go back and read my previous post. I provide ample scripture to support everything that I have said. The Bible is very clear on these issues and it is critical that we obey the will of God.

I believe that I also commented on the different dispensations that have existed but just in case: There have been 3 dispensations. Patriaricle; Mosaic and now Christian. The Thief on the cross, as previously pointed out, was under the Mosaical law (dispensation) and was thus not required to do the same things as we are. If you would like to further discuss these matters, please let me know. Also, please, do look back to my previous post. I provide many passages to demonstrate that it is not my words but the Word of God.

In Christ,

Robert
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trc,

You are welcome. You have not offended me in the least bit with your views that I would be lost if I were wrong. I assure you that the Bible does in fact teach that one must be baptized. I have provided scriptures and have not heard you or anyone else here provide one bit of evidence to prove that what I have said is incorrorct.

Again I ask, if baptism is not required then please explain the following verses:
1. Acts 2:38
2. Acts 9:9-11; 22:16
3. Rom 6:3-6
4. Gal 3:27

And I could give many more but these provide enough evidence.

I must tell you that you are wrong about whether your error would be less harmful. trc, if one is not baptized for the remission of sins, then one is lost. Please, consider the passages that I have provided with an open mind.

In Christ,

Robert


It teaches us that once we are saved we need to be baptized. But no where does it teach that water baptism is necessary for salvation. If you die without water baptism but have recognized that you are sinner in need of a Savior, repented of your sin and in faith accepted that the Lord Jesus died and was buried and rose the third day in your place. Scripture teaches us that God gives you his free gift of eternal life!!!

The Apostle Paul wrote:
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. I Cor 1:17
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So, according to a "coc'er";

"Suzy Q" is bedridden, a lost wicked sinner. She is witnessed to about the Lord Jesus Christ, convicted of her sin, repents of her wickedness and places her faith in the Lord Jesus and Him alone. But dies before she could/and maybe she could not go through a baptism.


Where would Suzy Q go?


By the beliefs of the hard core coC, Suzy Q would go to hell for she has not been baptized into the coC.

The same thing goes for the solider in the fox hole in the middle of the war, he to would go to hell according to the die hard coC even after repenting of his sin and confessing Jesus as Savior.

The Pentecostals teaches the same way, only you got to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ into their church, not the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The thing about it, there is only one way to be saved, no matter what time period your born in.
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:hide Is it safe in here now? I have never heard of having to be baptized to get saved. I agree that baptism is a further (outward) commitment to the Lord's will, once saved. If it is the other way around, which I haven't seen scriptually supported yet, then is salvation any less settled for those of us who weren't baptized before our professions of faith, like "Suzy Q"? :uuhm:

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i was able to find the scripture that best puts the whole thing in perspective for me. In Acts chapter 8, the Apostle Philip is sent of God unto a Eunich in the desert of Gaza. He preached Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected. When the Eunich asked what was to stop him from being baptized, the Apostle told him point blank that he had to believe with all his heart and then be baptized. This account starts in v.26.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


God Bless
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i was able to find the scripture that best puts the whole thing in perspective for me. In Acts chapter 8' date=' the Apostle Philip is sent of God unto a Eunich in the desert of Gaza. He preached Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected. When the Eunich asked what was to stop him from being baptized, the Apostle told him point blank that he had to believe with all his heart and [u']then be baptized. This account starts in v.26.


God Bless


The die hards that believe baptizing saves a person cannot get past this verse, its their stumbling block.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38 (KJV)

Them in this verse.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mark 16:16 (KJV)

They just can't help but believe that this verse means if one is not baptized they are damned even though it does not state such a fact.
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Now' date=' I will say this: if you guys are going to do nothing but present the same tired and disproven arguments while ignoring the truth then there is really no reason for me to say any more on this subject to you. [/quote']
Here's a few questions I'm tempted to ask, which you can reply to if you still want to:

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i was able to find the scripture that best puts the whole thing in perspective for me. In Acts chapter 8' date=' the Apostle Philip is sent of God unto a Eunich in the desert of Gaza. He preached Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected. When the Eunich asked what was to stop him from being baptized, the Apostle told him point blank that he had to believe with all his heart and [u']then be baptized. This account starts in v.26.


God Bless


Ed,

In your post you seem to suggest that I am saying that Batism comes before faith. If that is what you are saying, then allow me to correct your misconception. I have not ever said such a thing. If you will go back and look at my post then you will easily see that I do not make such a statement. Faith does come before baptism but baptism does come before salvation. I refer you back to my previous post where there is ample support for what I have said.

Also the passage in Acts 8 does not help your cause. Let us look at the facts. The ethopian eunich was study the word (Isaiah 53 to be specific). Philip came to him and asked if he understood. He said how could he if he was not taught by some man. Philip then began with Isaiah 53 and taught him Jesus.

Now let us consider a few things.

1. This man was not a Christian; he did not even understand what was being taught in Isaiah 53.
2. Isaiah 53 is speaking of the suffering of Christ and makes no mention of baptism.
3. We do not read anything that says that Philip said anything about baptism; he taught Christ to the eunich.
4 Yet dispite these truths, the eunich said here is water what doth hender me to be baptized. Why? Why would he ask a question that was unrelated to what was taught to him?

Truth is it was not unrelated. It would seem that to teach Jesus is to teach baptism. Otherwise the eunich had no reason to ask that question.

Open your eyes sir. See what is clearly before you.

In Christ,

Robert
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And the person in the hospital or fox hole that exercises saving faith in Christ as Messiah and then passes on unable to be Baptized?

You still haven't answered that.....

Also, the thief on the cross you have said was in a different dispensation; but if what you are saying that once a person believes that an act of obedience is necessary to salvation (faith then baptism); what act of obedience did the thief perform to access that salvation?

Abraham's act of obedience after faith in God for deliverance was to move to offer his son as a sacrifice. The children of Israel's act of obedience in the wilderness when the snake was lifted up was to look at the snake after faith in God for deliverance.

So, if all of these acts of obedience are a requirement to access salvation; what act of obedience (other than believe Christ as Messiah) did the thief on the cross perform in order to insure Christ was not a liar? Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

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Hello again,

This is a general response to the postings that have been made since my last post. Since each of you have ignored the clear evidence that disproves each argument that you continue to make, I take that as a statement that not one of you are interested in the truth but simply in the false teaching of a denomination. That is of course a decision that each of you must make for yourself.

I do feel compelled to clear up on statement that you made Jerry. You say that the people you have spoken to who believe in the necessity of baptism for salvation has upon your questioning them said that they would wait until Sunday if it was say Thursday when someone wanted to be baptized. This of course would present the person claiming to believe in baptism in a bit of a contradiction. I do not know who you have been speaking with, but I can assure you that speaking for myself and everyone I know within the Lord's church, I would not make such a statement. It would not matter the least what time of day or night it was if someone wanted to obey the Gospel. I would be there and gladly help them to do so. Let me say it again...it could be 3:00 in the moring or any other time and I would get out of bed and go baptize someone or even go watch as someone else did. Jerry, baptism is taught as being necessary to salvation. I have provided multiple verses that not one person on here has been able to refute. It is important and any Christian would gladly get up and help a person obey the Gospel. If he/she would not, then they show themselves to be poor servants of the Lord.

Now, I will say this: if you guys are going to do nothing but present the same tired and disproven arguments while ignoring the truth then there is really no reason for me to say any more on this subject to you. I hope that those who are overseeing this site will leave this thread up so that anyone who wishes to see the truth can. I am here and will continue to post and will gladly answer anything that you have to offer that is new.

In Christ,

Robert


See, Robert, this post is really arrogant. In your post on the 1000 year reign you implied that you think we should study the Bible with an open mind. But, just like I said there, this shows that you really don't mean that. What you mean is that we should all line up and say that, oh, yes, Robert has shown us the error of our ways. But you haven't done that. All you have shown, again, is the ability to twist scripture and then to accuse people of ignoring truth. But I don't think we are the ones ignoring truth....

Acts 9
And there he found a certain man named Aeneas, which had kept his bed eight years, and was sick of the palsy.
34And Peter said unto him, Aeneas, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole: arise, and make thy bed. And he arose immediately.
35And all that dwelt at Lydda and Saron saw him, and turned to the Lord.

No mention of baptism at all, not even after they turned to the Lord (as is the case of every baptism...after belief in Christ.

Acts 13:
38Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Him that believes, not him that believes and is baptised
43Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. Continue in the grace of God, not in the grace of God and be baptised
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Not a word about baptsim.

Other verses have been shown to you. You are choosing to ignore them. Perhaps you should have the open mind you require of us...
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The way I've always look at baptism is a sign of obedience.. but it isn't required.

I mean if Jesus came up to you, knowing that you have faith in him, tell you to go get baptize, would you tell him "NO" to his face??? no, you would obey him.

Baptism is a symbol of our faith and his washing sins away. Which is the reason he ask us to do it.

But.. if we don't have a choice, like dying, but accepted him before anyone got to know about it, we still get to heaven without baptism. Because if we survive, we would live for Jesus.

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Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Romans 4 is a chapter emphasizing throughout it the importance and vitality of faith.

Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?(This verse shows a progression. When we are saved, we call on Christ as a manifestation of our salvation, for "whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." So we have the final result back to its source. How shall they call if they haven't believed? How shall they believe if they have not heard? How shall they hear if there is no one to tell them? Notice, there was no "how can they be baptized if they have not called" in that verse. Why? Because it is something that takes place at believing, a baptism of God's Holy Spirit and the physical baptism is unimportant to salvation but a outward representation to those around us what has happened.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.(We are baptized by what? We are baptized by one Spirit, by the Spirit of God.)

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

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To everyone on this site:

It has been suggested that I have been arragant in my post. This has not been my desire nor is it my feelings. I apologize if it has come across as such. I do not apologize for speaking the truth about the Bible. I will not do so today nor ever. The bible teaches what it teaches and I have supported my post with scriptures. I stand by my statement that at least some on here are not really interested in seeing the truth. And that is each person's choice.

The Bible supports the necessity of baptism in salvation. I have provided scripture after scripture to support that statement. There have been attempts to disprove this truth and much of the scripture that has been used to disprove the necessity of baptism has in fact disproved the thought that it is not needed.

I will leave this subject at this point. IF anyone here would like to discuss this topic or the other topic that I started, feel free to PM me and I will be glad to futher study these or any other topic. Perhaps study in a more private setting is best.

Again, it has not been my desire to be arragant but simply to open up the Bible, study it and perhaps to help others come to the truth. Yes, that is my desire. Why else study the Bible if it is not to help others and yourself come to a better understanding of the truth?

In Christ,

Robert

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