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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

GenevanPreacher, do you?

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3 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

It does if you read the first few verses of Genesis 1 and focus on the light and darkness getting separated by God, with that being the creation of the Angels, with the devils being what the Angels were separated from, making the devils the residue left behind.

Sorry. Had to post and run!

The explanation was required for it to make any sense, but you are still wrong.

In your scenario you have both good and evil angels existing.

In 2blikeJesus post there is the positive which exists and the negative which does not exist but is simply the absence of the positive.

Your scenario has both positive and negative existing, which is totally NOT the concept 2blikeJesus was expressing.

Edited by DaveW
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9 hours ago, DaveW said:

The explanation was required for it to make any sense, but you are still wrong.

In your scenario you have both good and evil angels existing.

In 2blikeJesus post there is the positive which exists and the negative which does not exist but is simply the absence of the positive.

Your scenario has both positive and negative existing, which is totally NOT the concept 2blikeJesus was expressing.

At least I don't have to make up some grand story to explain a fallen leader of a band of fallen Angels by using verses that have nothing to do with such.

"Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness."

"For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation."

Darkness has been a great example of sin and evil. To me that makes more sense than the verses explaining a so-called Lucifer.

Now look at -

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

And what do devils want to look like to us -

"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

Just my opinion. Or is it? -

"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

We are children of the day.

Thanks. I am sure this will be torn apart soon. Have fun!

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1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

At least I don't have to make up some grand story to explain a fallen leader of a band of fallen Angels by using verses that have nothing to do with such.

"Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness."

"For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation."

Darkness has been a great example of sin and evil. To me that makes more sense than the verses explaining a so-called Lucifer.

Now look at -

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

And what do devils want to look like to us -

"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

Just my opinion. Or is it? -

"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

We are children of the day.

Thanks. I am sure this will be torn apart soon. Have fun!

So apart from one that specifically references Satan (and him representing himself as an angel of light), what have any of those passages got to do with 2blikeJesus' point above, or indeed with origin of Satan?

Or are you now trying to avoid the corner you have painted yourself into by sidestepping to another subject?

You accuse others here of misusing Scripture but here you have used scriptures that make no reference to angels/devils to make some point about the origin of evil angels and Satan.

 

 

Edited by DaveW
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One thing is certain from this GP post: He believes that evil angels were created as evil angels.

 

14 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

It does if you read the first few verses of Genesis 1 and focus on the light and darkness getting separated by God, with that being the creation of the Angels, with the devils being what the Angels were separated from, making the devils the residue left behind.

Sorry. Had to post and run!

He tries to mask it by using the phrase "the residue left behind", but there are so many problems with this theory.

  • This means there is evil before the sixth day is finished where God says:

Gen 1:31  And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I know he has already argued against this, but the different phrasing between the other days and this day indicates more than just that God was happy with it - and even if that was the case - can we honestly think that God was happy with His creation that according to this understanding included evil from the beginning?

Not the God that I see in the Bible. Maybe some sort of half strength god like the Mormons or the Mohammedans have, but not the God of the Bible.

  • God actively created everything that is, so there was no "residue left over" - at least not according to the Lord Jesus Christ:

Joh 1:1-3
(1)  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2)  The same was in the beginning with God.
(3)  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


Notice that it says "All things were made Him...." That includes angels - unless of course you are following Mormon teaching, which says the angels are minor gods.

 

I have to say that I have heard a similar argument when having discussion with Calvinists who don't like "double predestination" - they refuse to see the other side of the coin which is obvious - that if God chooses some to glory, then He must be default choose the others for eternal punishment.

Angles, whether good or evil, are created beings - there was nothing formed from any sort of "residue" that God did not actively create. To speculate otherwise is yet another example of straining at gnats and swallowing camels that this guy is doing throughout this thread.

To make such a fuss about a passage that most everyone here thinks has a dual application - literal of a real king, and indicative of Satan's situation (if I read most of the comments here correctly) and then to make an absolute speculative statement about evil angels being the "residue" of good angel creation with no scriptural backup for it, is astounding to say the least.

 

But we are now clear on the fact that GP believes that the evil angels were from their inception created as evil angels, although he somehow attributes their existence to some sort of "Side-effect" of creating good angels.

I don't really want a god who can't make things without making "mistakes on the side".

And I don't see that god in my Bible.

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Rather than risk this degenerating into --- "You have put your interpretation on my words", "No, anyone can see your implication", "That's a misrepresentation", etc. Let's do this:

GP - for sake of clarity:

1) Is Satan a real entity (person or being as opposed to an inanimate object or a nebulous power)?

2) Was Satan created wicked?

3) If #2 is "No", Did Satan choose darkness over light? Or did God withdraw the light from him, leaving him in darkness? If the answer is different from those 2 choices,please explain.

4) Was Satan created? If so, before day 1, sometime during days 1-6 or after day 7?

 

Yes, I realize I may very well know your answers to those questions. No, I'm not trying to make you look ridiculous. Maybe this will end some of the yah,yah by providing substantial, definitive answers (maybe, maybe not).

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6 hours ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

Rather than risk this degenerating into --- "You have put your interpretation on my words", "No, anyone can see your implication", "That's a misrepresentation", etc. Let's do this:

GP - for sake of clarity:

1) Is Satan a real entity (person or being as opposed to an inanimate object or a nebulous power)?

2) Was Satan created wicked?

3) If #2 is "No", Did Satan choose darkness over light? Or did God withdraw the light from him, leaving him in darkness? If the answer is different from those 2 choices,please explain.

4) Was Satan created? If so, before day 1, sometime during days 1-6 or after day 7?

 

Yes, I realize I may very well know your answers to those questions. No, I'm not trying to make you look ridiculous. Maybe this will end some of the yah,yah by providing substantial, definitive answers (maybe, maybe not).

1) Yes, a real entity. Did you know John Bunyun in "Pilgrims Progress" called devils ''all the satans in Hell..."? Interesting wording.

2) Yes. He wasn't 'forced' to be, but his nature was to be evil. Not as confusing as it sounds.

3)There was light and darkness in the 'concentration' that the Lord pulled the matter from to create everything he wanted to come into existence.

4) Plain to understand, yes he was, but not against his nature. His nature, and all satans/devils, is/are evil. When God said "let there be light" he separated the light from the darkness, the Angels of God, from that concentrated form we know as "earth without form", and the angelic forms of darkness, now known as devils, and poof, there you have them.

There is NO OTHER place in scripture to show the creation of the Angels of God or the devils. No where.

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5 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Wow, I don't think I have ever seen this much conjecture to explain a bible belief, GP.

The scary thing Jim is that SO many Christians accept the Lucifer story without question. Just like the doctrine of dispensationalism, as well as the gap theory. SO many preach the same teachings that people will not bother to look 'outside the box' when it comes to actually reading and praying themselves to their Lord about clarity.

I am not afraid to use the mind that the Lord gave me to understand what he wants me to know. It seems easy to let the scriptures explain themselves and leave the made up stories to those who want to play with the meanings.

Take the verse you quoted earlier - 'here a little, and there a little' - a much over used verse to help men of God  have license to teach almost anything. And THAT is true conjecturing. You might read down a few verses and see what your verse means -

"But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

Yep. That's what'll happen.

On 7/28/2016 at 7:22 PM, DaveW said:

The explanation was required for it to make any sense, but you are still wrong.

In your scenario you have both good and evil angels existing.

In 2blikeJesus post there is the positive which exists and the negative which does not exist but is simply the absence of the positive.

Your scenario has both positive and negative existing, which is totally NOT the concept 2blikeJesus was expressing.

Well Dave, you might consider the fact that there WAS evil before the sixth day by Gods own words -

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:"

The Lord knew good AND evil.

You can 'conjecture' all you want here fellas, but evil existed before Adam ate, and there had to be a reason he did. This is what men made the stories to explain Lucifer for, after all. EVEN though there are no facts to support their stories, people believe them.

So I am not conjecturing at all, unless you believe they do with the fallen angels story?

There are years worth of studying in what I believe,  so I don't have the time to explain every little jot and tittle for why I believe, but there you go, you got the root of what I believe about this subject. 

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

The scary thing Jim is that SO many Christians accept the Lucifer story without question. Just like the doctrine of dispensationalism, as well as the gap theory. SO many preach the same teachings that people will not bother to look 'outside the box' when it comes to actually reading and praying themselves to their Lord about clarity.

I am not afraid to use the mind that the Lord gave me to understand what he wants me to know. It seems easy to let the scriptures explain themselves and leave the made up stories to those who want to play with the meanings.

Take the verse you quoted earlier - 'here a little, and there a little' - a much over used verse to help men of God  have license to teach almost anything. And THAT is true conjecturing. You might read down a few verses and see what your verse means -

"But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

Yep. That's what'll happen.

Well Dave, you might consider the fact that there WAS evil before the sixth day by Gods own words -

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:"

The Lord knew good AND evil.

You can 'conjecture' all you want here fellas, but evil existed before Adam ate, and there had to be a reason he did. This is what men made the stories to explain Lucifer for, after all. EVEN though there are no facts to support their stories, people believe them.

So I am not conjecturing at all, unless you believe they do with the fallen angels story?

There are years worth of studying in what I believe,  so I don't have the time to explain every little jot and tittle for why I believe, but there you go, you got the root of what I believe about this subject. 

Quoted for posterity.

(So we have record of what he said before he changes it AGAIN.)

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10 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

1) Yes, a real entity. Did you know John Bunyun in "Pilgrims Progress" called devils ''all the satans in Hell..."? Interesting wording.

2) Yes. He wasn't 'forced' to be, but his nature was to be evil. Not as confusing as it sounds.

3)There was light and darkness in the 'concentration' that the Lord pulled the matter from to create everything he wanted to come into existence.

4) Plain to understand, yes he was, but not against his nature. His nature, and all satans/devils, is/are evil. When God said "let there be light" he separated the light from the darkness, the Angels of God, from that concentrated form we know as "earth without form", and the angelic forms of darkness, now known as devils, and poof, there you have them.

There is NO OTHER place in scripture to show the creation of the Angels of God or the devils. No where.

I would really like it if you could provide Scripture to support each point.  You lecture us for just following the teaching of man, but then when asked to clarify what you believe, you provide no Scripture to support it.  Further, each one of your points flies in the face of very clear Scripture (except for point one...)

Edited by Steve Schwenke
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GP, you've been so adamant about how wrong people are for "reading Satan into" the Lucifer account (and the king of Tyrus account in Ezekiel 18). Yet, I have to say, even if those who apply Lucifer and the king of Tyrus to Satan are wrong...that pales in comparison to your reading Satan and the devils into the creation account due to the use of the terms darkness and light. God defined what the light and darkness were in Genesis 1:5...and it's not good and evil, angels and devils, or whatever this residue is that you've theorized.

I also must say that your application of (and reading into) man being both created and falling on the sixth day and God's acknowledgment of it also pales. GP, God saw everything that he had made, and it was very good...he then stated that the sixth day was finished, Everything was very good when the sixth day was finished. Now read the very first word of Genesis 2...it's the word "Thus". That means "as a result or consequence of this". A consequence of what? A consequence of God's creative acts...which were very good! A a result of God's creative acts (which were very good), everything was finished, and God rested on the seventh day.

I still say it comes down to this...

If applying Lucifer and the king of Tyrus are wrong, what are the consequences of that? Are there really any detrimental consequences that will harm other doctrine? No. I know that you believe there is the consequence of "giving glory to Satan" by doing so, but at the same time, I do believe that you're the only person that thinks that.

HOWEVER...

What is the consequence of applying God's creation of Satan and the devils as wicked? The consequence is this...God is a sinner. If he created Satan and the devils as sinners, that makes God a sinner, because the sin had to come from him. He had to put that in them. It had to come from him; therefore, it had to be in him too.

 

Edited by No Nicolaitans
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2 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

GP, you've been so adamant about how wrong people are for "reading Satan into" the Lucifer account (and the king of Tyrus account in Ezekiel 18). Yet, I have to say, even if those who apply Lucifer and the king of Tyrus to Satan are wrong...that pales in comparison to your reading Satan and the devils into the creation account due to the use of the terms darkness and light.[1]  God defined what the light and darkness were in Genesis 1:5...and it's not good and evil, angels and devils, or whatever this residue is that you've theorized.

I also must say that your application of (and reading into) man being both created and falling on the sixth day and God's acknowledgment of it also pales.[2] GP, God saw everything that he had made, and it was very good...he then stated that the sixth day was finished, Everything was very good when the sixth day was finished. Now read the very first word of Genesis 2...it's the word "Thus". That means "as a result or consequence of this". A consequence of what? A consequence of God's creative acts...which were very good! A a result of God's creative acts (which were very good), everything was finished, and God rested on the seventh day.

I still say it comes down to this...

If applying Lucifer and the king of Tyrus are wrong, what are the consequences of that? Are there really any detrimental consequences that will harm other doctrine? No. I know that you believe there is the consequence of "giving glory to Satan" by doing so, but at the same time, I do believe that you're the only person that thinks that.

HOWEVER...

What is the consequence of applying God's creation of Satan and the devils as wicked? The consequence is this...God is a sinner. If he created Satan and the devils as sinners, that makes God a sinner, because the sin had to come from him. He had to put that in them. It had to come from him; therefore, it had to be in him too.

[1] We are defined as such when the Lord said  -

"For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light."

And -

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

Seems rather common sense to me.

In the first few verses in Genesis I see good messengers and evil messengers existing from the mass of creation, from which the Lord commanded all life out of, (except man, who was formed by Gods hands). Everything else was spoken into existence.

[2] I really am confused by this statement. I never said man fell. Just quoted God, and what he himself said. He knew good and evil from somewhere or he would not have said what he did. Don't you think?

Besides, don't you think that man fell after the 7th day?

Now as for evil existing - the scripture says that the serpent was more subtil than any other beast of the field?

Subtil - deceitful. 

That is evil before the fall. AND it WAS a serpent, not the Devil. The Lord would not compare the Devil to the other beasts of the field.

[Sorry that's all for now. Our wedding anniversary today. 28 years btw.]

 

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1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Our wedding anniversary today. 28 years btw.

Happy Anniversary!

1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

[1] We are defined as such when the Lord said  -

"For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light."

And -

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

Seems rather common sense to me.

You're taking the descriptive characterization of light and darkness and applying it to literal light and darkness. That would be like me taking every reference to an ark in the Bible and saying they all describe a huge wooden water craft...or no, they all describe a small water craft made of bulrushes that could only hold a baby...or no, they all describe a wooden box overlain with gold. 

We don't have to go looking in the New Testament to find what God meant by light and darkness when he clearly and plainly defined it at the beginning...

Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Are references to light and darkness used to describe "good and evil"? Yes. Are references to light and darkness used to describe day and night? Yes. The difference is context...

 

1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

[2] I really am confused by this statement. I never said man fell. Just quoted God, and what he himself said.

Well, here's what you said...

1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

 Well Dave, you might consider the fact that there WAS evil before the sixth day by Gods own words -

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:"

Okay, when I first saw that, I thought that since you said "sixth" day and included the words of God, you were saying that God said those words on the sixth day. However, if you're inferring that since God referred to good and evil; therefore, evil existed prior to man's fall...I don't disagree. It did exist prior to man's fall...because Satan had already fallen.

 

1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

The Lord would not compare the Devil to the other beasts of the field.

You mean like this...

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

...or this?

Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

...or this?

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
 

Who says God wouldn't compare the Devil to the other beasts of the field? Looks like he does to me. He compares man to sheep, goats, foxes, serpents, doves, etc. Even the Lord Jesus Christ is compared to a lamb and lion too...but the Devil is off limits?

Did not the Lord cast out devils and they entered into swine? So is it so hard to believe that Satan entered the serpent? If not, perhaps you can tell me when the serpent...the same serpent that beguiled Eve...

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

...when did that serpent bruise the Lord Jesus' heel...when did it slither up and bruise the Lord Jesus' heel? That was a pretty old serpent by that time! Unless you also don't believe that's a prophetic reference.

GP, you're free to believe what you want; I can see that chances are you won't change your views about this and many other things. However, you might want to reign in some of your slams toward others here for what they believe, because friend...some of this stuff you're espousing is just plain out whacka-doodle.
 

Edited by No Nicolaitans
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Geneva - please provide Scripture to support your claims.  There was a list of 4 questions that were asked for clarification, which you answered, but you gave no Scripture for them.  Perhaps if you build your thesis from those questions, and provide Scriptural support so we can understand where you are coming from, it might make things easier.

Thanks!

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17 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Happy Anniversary!

Thanks!

You're taking the descriptive characterization of light and darkness and applying it to literal light and darkness. That would be like me taking every reference to an ark in the Bible and saying they all describe a huge wooden water craft...or no, they all describe a small water craft made of bulrushes that could only hold a baby...or no, they all describe a wooden box overlain with gold. 

I didn't say nor imply every time it's used.

We don't have to go looking in the New Testament to find what God meant by light and darkness when he clearly and plainly defined it at the beginning...

Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Are references to light and darkness used to describe "good and evil"? Yes. Are references to light and darkness used to describe day and night? Yes. The difference is context...

 

Well, here's what you said...

Okay, when I first saw that, I thought that since you said "sixth" day and included the words of God, you were saying that God said those words on the sixth day. However, if you're inferring that since God referred to good and evil; therefore, evil existed prior to man's fall...I don't disagree. It did exist prior to man's fall...because Satan had already fallen.

A verse somewhere that states that without making up a story?

 

You mean like this...

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This has nothing to do with Lucifer/Satan falling because of a rebellion where a former angelic being decided he was jealous of God and tried to take his throne. Does it?

...or this?

Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

...or this?

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
 

Who says God wouldn't compare the Devil to the other beasts of the field? In Genesis God did not compare the devil or Satan nor a Lucifer to any other beast of the field. He was comparing a serpent to the other beasts of the field. Very easy to see, if you read the verses without using mans teachings and pervert the meaning of the text. Looks like he does to me. He compares man to sheep, goats, foxes, serpents, doves, etc. Even the Lord Jesus Christ is compared to a lamb and lion too...but the Devil is off limits?

Did not the Lord cast out devils and they entered into swine? So is it so hard to believe that Satan entered the serpent? If not, perhaps you can tell me when the serpent...the same serpent that beguiled Eve...

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

...when did that serpent bruise the Lord Jesus' heel...when did it slither up and bruise the Lord Jesus' heel? That was a pretty old serpent by that time! Unless you also don't believe that's a prophetic reference.

Yes it was a prophetic verse, but also a literal verse. No problem at all.

GP, you're free to believe what you want; I can see that chances are you won't change your views about this and many other things. However, you might want to reign in some of your slams toward others here for what they believe, because friend...some of this stuff you're espousing is just plain out whacka-doodle.

Thanks. I shall add that word to my vocabulary for someone who actually believes the scriptures.

 

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GP, I give up. Having an exchange with you is like trying to pet a cat that stays just out of arm's reach...you can call the cat, motion to it with your fingers, and gently tap the floor while talking to it. However, the cat refuses to move and stays in its place...taunting you...because you can still see it, but you can't get to it...and it won't budge.

Like the cat, you don't answer direct questions, clarify your statements, or provide biblical proof of your assertions...you just stay in the corner under the furniture...letting your presence be known and obvious but refusing to come forth.

I find that a broom handle makes the cat move...so now you see one reason as to why it seems that others take the broom handle after you here.

I used to wonder why you had a cat preaching in your videos. Now I understand that the cat is actually quite fitting.

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On 7/30/2016 at 9:24 AM, Steve Schwenke said:

I would really like it if you could provide Scripture to support each point.  You lecture us for just following the teaching of man, but then when asked to clarify what you believe, you provide no Scripture to support it.  Further, each one of your points flies in the face of very clear Scripture (except for point one...)

My scriptural support is known already by all here, you just refuse to see it because you are taught that it means something else.

1. He is a real entity because of all the times he is mentioned in scripture. A look in a Strongs Concordance will suffice.

2. There is no scriptural support that he was ever not evil, as per our Lords words "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

3. Satan never chose anything. He was ALWAYS darkness. ALWAYS evil. From the beginning! You read the Bible? You know what I am saying.

4. Show me where the fall of Satan and devils occurred in the history of Genesis or before. It exists no where but in the mind of men years ago who tried to explain the existence of the thing named Lucifer and a marvelous story was created AND made doctrine in the Churches.

Why should it be an amazing thing for us to believe in the creation of devils when God made everything else for its purpose?

The nature of a created being is just that...its nature.

And NO, since God created devils, that DOES NOT MAKE GOD A SINNER, Dave! That is a silly thing to even think, much less say.

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3 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

And NO, since God created devils, that DOES NOT MAKE GOD A SINNER, Dave! That is a silly thing to even think, much less say.

Just to clarify...

Unless I missed it in Dave's posts, I'm the one who said that...not Dave.

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