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GenevanPreacher, do you?


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As with all reformers, the Bible is never the final authority. The 2nd century plus "early church father's" (apostates) writings is all that matters to them. Independent study of Scripture with only the Spirit to guide them is unthinkable. It is and always has been a personality flaw with these types (a deficiency of faith and confidence in the Holy Spirit).

They don't get it because they can't get it.

If you have time, browse a reformed theology forum and you will see immediately what I mean. The Bible is quoted anecdotally, the vast majority of references in their beliefs are quoted from one "early church father" or another. These same types of apostates were teaching falsely throughout the 1st century also and are recorded throughout the Epistles. 

Edited by wretched
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On 8/21/2016 at 7:55 PM, Jim_Alaska said:

"from the beginning" is when he became Satan, or the Devil. Satan had a beginning. Before that he was Lucifer. His beginning as Satan is exactly when he became Evil. Of course this is just my opinion, but everyone has one.

"And even that which you have will be taken away." Here is what this Scripture actually says:  Mr 4:25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. 

The Scripture leading up to this statement was comparing the seeds being sown into differing types of ground. Some produced and some did not, typifying those that accept the truth and those that do not. Those that will not accept the truth will have the truth that they have rejected taken away from them.

Your reference is not valid to this conversation because you try to make it seem as though the saved will even have the truth taken from them. Misapplying Scripture is a dangerous game.

I disagree with your opinion.

As for your summation of Mark 4:25 -

  Since verses 24 and 25 sum up them listening to what the Lord said in the previous verses, he was putting value upon what they heard as they listen, which does not mean he will take "the truth" from them at all. It was 'the wisdom' they would be missing out on, if they didn't 'hear' and measure those words of value.

I didn't even imply that the truth would be taken away.

And don't worry, I am in no danger.

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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4 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

The danger is not a danger to you brother. It is to others.

Truth does not hurt anyone.

Unfounded tradition has created a pain in the neck to those who seek the truth in the scriptures - by brethren who, thinking they are helping, have forced a mold of 'truth' over them and 'conforming' them to the 'proper' way to 'see' what the scriptures 'really' mean, contrary to what they really say.

We really do act like sheep sometimes.

And when the wolf comes - he eats away at our 'created' beliefs and we fail to show ourselves 'approved unto God' for lack of true 'study' to God and everyone. And when we lack - and fail - we just push it aside and ignore it, and say 'well,  it is by faith and not by sight!'.

Baa.

Denying the leading of the Holy Spirit of God in understanding God's holy word is the danger.

Of which I fear many have lost the 'spectacles' to wear.

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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2 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Truth does not hurt anyone.

Unfounded tradition has created a pain in the neck to those who seek the truth in the scriptures - by brethren who, thinking they are helping, have forced a mold of 'truth' over them and 'conforming' them to the 'proper' way to 'see' what the scriptures 'really' mean, contrary to what they really say.

We really do act like sheep sometimes.

And when the wolf comes - he eats away at our 'created' beliefs and we fail to show ourselves 'approved unto God' for lack of true 'study' to God and everyone. And when we lack - and fail - we just push it aside and ignore it, and say 'well,  it is by faith and not by sight!'.

Baa.

Denying the leading of the Holy Spirit of God in understanding God's holy word is the danger.

Of which I fear many have lost the 'spectacles' to wear.

I agree that many tend to take too much stock in false renderings and stories not actually in scripture simply because of tradition, popularity, the sheer charisma of its proponent, or etc. but with this issue there seems to be plenty scriptural support in the passage for the description to be applied to both the Physical King/prince and Satan the spiritual power influencing the physical. Similar to how Christ compared the the wicked pharisees in John 8:44 to their spiritual father Satan. In John 8:44 we learn they are like their father and indirectly we also learn something of their father as well. It is plain to see (without the help of outside sources) that God is doing the same comparing the King/prince to Satan we learn about the nature of both.

Edited by John Young
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6 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Truth does not hurt anyone.

Unfounded tradition has created a pain in the neck to those who seek the truth in the scriptures - by brethren who, thinking they are helping, have forced a mold of 'truth' over them and 'conforming' them to the 'proper' way to 'see' what the scriptures 'really' mean, contrary to what they really say.

We really do act like sheep sometimes.

And when the wolf comes - he eats away at our 'created' beliefs and we fail to show ourselves 'approved unto God' for lack of true 'study' to God and everyone. And when we lack - and fail - we just push it aside and ignore it, and say 'well,  it is by faith and not by sight!'.

Baa.

Denying the leading of the Holy Spirit of God in understanding God's holy word is the danger.

Of which I fear many have lost the 'spectacles' to wear.

Sheep?..You better believe I am the Lord's sheep.

Everyone who has a minute should google Lucifer myths and "is Lucifer, Satan". I mentioned before the apostate woman you seemingly quoted at length early in the thread. You seemed appalled that I would make this connection but a longer search exposes you more and more and I see where you get this idea or worse yet, the type of "spirit" that showed you this nonsense. Strangely I can find many sites that echo your opinion on Lucifer but not a single one is authored by a true believer. The authors are satanists, atheists, weird apostates and scientology teachers. I guess in your mind, every believer is wrong and only you and Satanists/atheists/scientology/weirdo apostates are right about Lucifer. You have been shown many times with many Scripture that you are incorrect, yet you still cling to the idea...what gives really? You mention the Holy Spirit when the like minded company you keep in this subject hardly have the Spirit of Truth in them.

Coincidence? I don't know and makes me wonder whether you are the wolf you reference in sheep's clothing.

You are in vile company (according to google)  with your insistence to stick with these lies. Lies which you cannot begin to explain with Scripture and of course, neither can the vile. Whether this is due to pride or the devil's direct use is unclear. I guess the answer to that will begin with your response.

Keep the spectacles you are wearing and your agreeing colleagues to yourself friend, I definitely don't want them near me.

 

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2 hours ago, wretched said:

Sheep?..You better believe I am the Lord's sheep.

Everyone who has a minute should google Lucifer myths and "is Lucifer, Satan". I mentioned before the apostate woman you seemingly quoted at length early in the thread. You seemed appalled that I would make this connection but a longer search exposes you more and more and I see where you get this idea or worse yet, the type of "spirit" that showed you this nonsense. Strangely I can find many sites that echo your opinion on Lucifer but not a single one is authored by a true believer. The authors are satanists, atheists, weird apostates and scientology teachers. I guess in your mind, every believer is wrong and only you and Satanists/atheists/scientology/weirdo apostates are right about Lucifer. You have been shown many times with many Scripture that you are incorrect, yet you still cling to the idea...what gives really? You mention the Holy Spirit when the like minded company you keep in this subject hardly have the Spirit of Truth in them.

Coincidence? I don't know and makes me wonder whether you are the wolf you reference in sheep's clothing.

You are in vile company (according to google)  with your insistence to stick with these lies. Lies which you cannot begin to explain with Scripture and of course, neither can the vile. Whether this is due to pride or the devil's direct use is unclear. I guess the answer to that will begin with your response.

Keep the spectacles you are wearing and your agreeing colleagues to yourself friend, I definitely don't want them near me.

I don't really know HOW to respond to this, Wretched.

I definitely have NO CONNECTIONS AT ALL with the 'woman' you referenced earlier, and I know NOBODY that are of the types of people you describe, neither do I associate publicly nor privately with such people, (unless they have been people I witnessed to) 

As a lost person, I associated with other lost people and listened to 'lost' music and read 'lost' books.

Since I first believed in Jesus Christ with all my heart, I have never gone back on my dedication to follow Him and His word, as close as a human can. Many people that are related to me, and friends and co-workers as well as fellow believers that I go to church and worship the Lord with, will tell you the same thing - I am a born-again child of the Lord God because of the salvation purchased by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, God in human form, on the cross and out of the tomb, and I met my wife of 28 years, in church, and we for 21 years have brought our children up in the Lord's ways and teachings from the Holy Scriptures, as well as homeschooled them in the proper schoolings the Lord has lead us to do. I met the true gospel about Jesus Christ in 1987, at a little Independent Baptist Church called Green Chapel, pastored by Michael Alan Martin. (Surely you could look him up on Facebook) He can tell you. (although he disagrees with me, vehemently, on my stand on the Geneva Bible.)

My wife would laugh you to scorn btw. So I keep her away. :)

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3 hours ago, wretched said:

Sheep?..You better believe I am the Lord's sheep.

Everyone who has a minute should google Lucifer myths and "is Lucifer, Satan". I mentioned before the apostate woman 1. you seemingly quoted at length early in the thread. You seemed appalled that I would make this connection but a longer search exposes you more and more and I see where you get this idea or worse yet, the type of "spirit" that showed you this nonsense. Strangely I can find many sites that echo your opinion on Lucifer but not a single one is authored by a true believer. The authors are satanists, atheists, weird apostates and scientology teachers. 2. I guess in your mind, every believer is wrong and only you and Satanists/atheists/scientology/weirdo apostates are right about Lucifer3.You have been shown many times with many Scripture that you are incorrect, yet you still cling to the idea...what gives really? You mention the Holy Spirit when the like minded company you keep in this subject hardly have the Spirit of Truth in them.

Coincidence? I don't know and makes me wonder whether you are the wolf you reference in sheep's clothing.

You are in vile company (4.according to google)  with your insistence to stick with these lies. Lies which you cannot begin to explain with Scripture and of course, neither can the vile. Whether this is due to pride or the devil's direct use is unclear. I guess the answer to that will begin with your response.

Keep the spectacles you are wearing and your agreeing colleagues to yourself friend, I definitely don't want them near me.

1. Where did I quote this woman?

2. There are plenty of believers in Jesus Christ that believe the way I do, the majority are in Heaven already though.

3. No I haven't.

4. Not a very reliable source now is it?

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1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

1. Where did I quote this woman?

2. There are plenty of believers in Jesus Christ that believe the way I do, the majority are in Heaven already though.

3. No I haven't.

4. Not a very reliable source now is it?

Total inability to see and understand plain english.

1. He made that link earlier because when he tried to find reference for what you are saying, that woman's name xame up.

2. When he checked more recently the associations he mentioned showed up. 

3. You absolutely have. I countered your "point" posts individually, much Scripture has been posted by many to counter your arguments, and much Scripture has been posted supporting the contrary position. Just because you refuse to see, respond to, or answer the vast majority of such posts doesn't make them invisible.

4. Google is a fine source for such statistical information. Type in a phrase and see what comes up - popularity of thought is what it is. And Wretched 's search apparently shows primarily the kind of people he mentions. If your twisted theology was popular among some form of christians - even historically - it would show up.

 

 

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1 hour ago, DaveW said:

Total inability to see and understand plain english.

Oh.

You mean like the plain English that says the king of Tyrus was who the Lord told Ezekiel the prophet to speak to?

Let me quote this just so I get it right -

"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him..."

Yeah, it's plain to see who has a "Total inability to see and understand plain english" in this discussion.

No disrespect meant, just 'throwing back the dirt' to your side of the pen.

Messy, messy, messy...

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3 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

I don't really know HOW to respond to this, Wretched.

I definitely have NO CONNECTIONS AT ALL with the 'woman' you referenced earlier, and I know NOBODY that are of the types of people you describe, neither do I associate publicly nor privately with such people, (unless they have been people I witnessed to) 

As a lost person, I associated with other lost people and listened to 'lost' music and read 'lost' books.

Since I first believed in Jesus Christ with all my heart, I have never gone back on my dedication to follow Him and His word, as close as a human can. Many people that are related to me, and friends and co-workers as well as fellow believers that I go to church and worship the Lord with, will tell you the same thing - I am a born-again child of the Lord God because of the salvation purchased by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, God in human form, on the cross and out of the tomb, and I met my wife of 28 years, in church, and we for 21 years have brought our children up in the Lord's ways and teachings from the Holy Scriptures, as well as homeschooled them in the proper schoolings the Lord has lead us to do. I met the true gospel about Jesus Christ in 1987, at a little Independent Baptist Church called Green Chapel, pastored by Michael Alan Martin. (Surely you could look him up on Facebook) He can tell you. (although he disagrees with me, vehemently, on my stand on the Geneva Bible.)

My wife would laugh you to scorn btw. So I keep her away. :)

This is the point I am making GP. The Spirit can be quenched when the flesh wants it bad enough. I think you have a personality flaw that makes you HAVE to be a rogue or different than others.no matter what amount of reasonable evidence is given you to not be. It is borderline childishness IMO.

Your unreasonable insistence over a partial Bible

Your offense when called a reformer or a preterist or a calvinite - you insist that you are none of these but talk like all of them.

And now this disturbing insistence that satan was not "the" fallen angel when the Scriptural evidence is unmistakable

I think you have a continuous struggle inside you over these things and that is why you remain on this site because you know deep down that something is wrong with the ways you have been making yourself believe.

I think if you really bought all these ideas you have then you would have never come to this site for one and you surely wouldn't have stayed as long as you have

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, wretched said:

This is the point I am making GP. The Spirit can be quenched when the flesh wants it bad enough. I think you have a personality flaw that makes you HAVE to be a rogue or different than others.no matter what amount of reasonable evidence is given you to not be. It is borderline childishness IMO.

Your unreasonable insistence over a partial Bible

Your offense when called a reformer or a preterist or a calvinite - you insist that you are none of these but talk like all of them.

And now this disturbing insistence that satan was not "the" fallen angel when the Scriptural evidence is unmistakable

I think you have a continuous struggle inside you over these things and that is why you remain on this site because you know deep down that something is wrong with the ways you have been making yourself believe.

I think if you really bought all these ideas you have then you would have never come to this site for one and you surely wouldn't have stayed as long as you have

You sound very wise sir, and I thank you for insight from you in many of your posts.

We all feel we are right in various ways, and I see that in you a lot. The Lord has blessed you and your kin I bet.

I mean you no disrespect, since I do respect your opinion, so take this with brotherly love - you have no idea what I have gone through to come to this view.

Since you have 'a form of godliness, but deny the power thereby'.

God has given me a brain to learn, and I have chosen for years to let him teach me from his word what to believe. 

I know everyone else can say the same.

And I accept a man's own convictions.

But to state openly that scriptures that do not SAY what a man says they say - is not led by God's Holy Spirit.

And that does go both ways, I know.

Thanks.

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4 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Oh.

You mean like the plain English that says the king of Tyrus was who the Lord told Ezekiel the prophet to speak to?

Let me quote this just so I get it right -

"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him..."

Yeah, it's plain to see who has a "Total inability to see and understand plain english" in this discussion.

No disrespect meant, just 'throwing back the dirt' to your side of the pen.

Messy, messy, messy...

You simply cannot answer the points of a post can you..............

This is the method of the false teacher - ignore the questions and statements when they become too hard, and attempt to change the subject.

The JW'S, the mormons, at the door both do it, and the calvinist also uses this method.

As do you.

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3 hours ago, DaveW said:

You simply cannot answer the points of a post can you..............

This is the method of the false teacher - ignore the questions and statements when they become too hard, and attempt to change the subject.

The JW'S, the mormons, at the door both do it, and the calvinist also uses this method.

As do you.

Once again Dave...it's all about me?

I gave scripture for what I believe.

You gave scripture for what you believe.

Everyone else gave scripture for what they believe.

Discussions have been made.

Opinons have been uttered.

You tire me with your 'witty humor' about me as a person. I answered directly and then you compare me to unbiblical/basically a lost person.

As for this subject on the king of Tyrus being Satan in Ezekiel 28 -

"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

You all are QUITE the prophets, and it is QUITE the secret - because NOBODY else in the whole Bible mentions this subject in any other form or manner as anything important at all. Usually a prophecy has a beginning and ending. We just 'see' an ending here without even a small bit of a beginning.

I have made plenty of points also that nobody has ever answered either Dave.

Have I accused them or you of being a Mormon or from any such false teaching organization?

No.

Thanks for making this whole thing about me. I would be flattered, but...

"Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"

Nope.

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Be careful about misusing his prophets - it didn't work out well for these guys.

2 Chron 36

16  But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy. note

 17  Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand.

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