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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

The Gap theory GARBAGE

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And "Lucifer" being "in the garden of God" etc. ties together with "the Serpent", which describes "Satan", "the Devil" etc. God made him perfect, just like He did Adam, but he "despised dominion" and left his FIRST ESTATE (book of Jude)which ties right back to Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14. That "first estate" was perfection and submission: But the "Devil" wanted to be the supreme ruler.

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In replying to GP's assertion that Satan was never Lucifer I have inadvertently drawn this thread off topic. If we need to continue this subject I suggest we take it to another thread.

Sorry folks my mistake.  :11backtotopic:

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3 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

In replying to GP's assertion that Satan was never Lucifer I have inadvertently drawn this thread off topic. If we need to continue this subject I suggest we take it to another thread.

Sorry folks my mistake.  :11backtotopic:

This is exactly why the gap theory is trash.

No gap. No Lucifer story. No false trash that there was a 'honest' and 'pure' creature who was a satan after he chose to become 'like God'.

I know all the references to the Lucifer mumbo jumbo, and find it such a funny thing that men of God will support such a thing by taking verses out of context and spread it far and wide by 'honoring' Satan so much that they will 'stick' him in a prophecy.

And when you take God's word as it reads in the text, you will find that Lucifer was used as an example of how far Nebuchadnezzar had lifted himself up - as a man - not as the devil. The rest of the verses in Isaiah that are around that ONE reference to something known as Lucifer (Venus), [which is what men called the star that rises up before the Sun, back in the 1500's and 1600's], you see a fallen MAN. Never a fallen angel.

The gap theory has quite the hold here on OB doesn't it? To believe an angel called Lucifer decided to go contrary to it's perfect creation is a myth. 

Reference to Jesus saying he saw Satan fall from heaven? Come on guys. He was not referring to Lucifer at all. Read the context. Don't give such a made up story such credit. Nor the devil such credit. He doesn't require the same level of prophetic utterence that our Lord gets in the OT scriptures. Nor does he deserve it.

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2 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

....No Lucifer story. No false trash that there was a 'honest' and 'pure' creature who was a satan after he chose to become 'like God'.

I know all the references to the Lucifer mumbo jumbo, and find it such a funny thing that men of God will support such a thing by taking verses out of context and spread it far and wide by 'honoring' Satan so much that they will 'stick' him in a prophecy.

And when you take God's word as it reads in the text, you will find that Lucifer was used as an example of how far Nebuchadnezzar had lifted himself up - as a man - not as the devil. The rest of the verses in Isaiah that are around that ONE reference to something known as Lucifer (Venus), [which is what men called the star that rises up before the Sun, back in the 1500's and 1600's], you see a fallen MAN. Never a fallen angel.

...To believe an angel called Lucifer decided to go contrary to it's perfect creation is a myth. 

Reference to Jesus saying he saw Satan fall from heaven? Come on guys. He was not referring to Lucifer at all. Read the context. Don't give such a made up story such credit. Nor the devil such credit. He doesn't require the same level of prophetic utterence that our Lord gets in the OT scriptures. Nor does he deserve it.

These passages do not need a gap in order to refer to Satan and human kings at the same time. The fall of the devil was not in some mystical gap period but is synonymous with the judgement of the serpent in Genesis 3:14. Satan was not cursed until after he tempted Eve in the garden. Everything by God was still very good until the moment Satan put it upon himself to question God's stated commands and go against his authorities.

The Isaiah passage was a proverb. It took things that were well known about the spiritual ruler of evil and applied them to his puppet the human king. Isaiah and others are often told and given burdens to speak in parables and proverbs in order to show to those who cared the hidden spiritual influence controlling the physical world. We also see that the Apostle John refers to Babylon  as being is the human symbol of Satan's control on earth and much of the things he refers to in Revelation are alluding back to the OT Prophets. Putting aside the argument on the word "Lucifer," it is clear that God is alluding to the devil and applying it to the Babylonian King.

God tells Palestina not to rejoice after the power of the human Babylonian king is taken away because the nation will once again come against them and we see that happening in Revelation where it is clear Satan is the spiritual ruler of that Kingdom; guiding them through out the ages.

Isaiah 14:4 that thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent’s root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.

Revelation 12:9-10 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Revelation 20:2-3 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Edited by John Young
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9 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Don't know why preachers teach it as fact, that the devil was a 'good guy' before he was a bad angel, is way beyond me.

 

8 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Do you believe that God created Satan as the evil, lying, murdering devil that we know?

 

Do you? 

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OK

A few posts back, I asked the question;

Like I said, dinosaurs deserve an explanation and a "gap theory" is the closest thing I have found to one as of yet. That is why I asked; why are there no dinosaur bones in the La Brea Tarpit deposits? There have been thousands of extinct critters including mammoths. mastodons, smilodons(sabre-toothed cats) dire wolves, giant ground sloths etc. but out of hundreds of different species there have been no dinosaurs found. Why?

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If I understand correctly a fossil can be carbon dated because it was once organic, but say a flint rock cannot be. However lava rocks can be dated because they consumed organic material while in liquid form. Unlike God's information, this may have changed in last 10 years or so due to some kind of new test or theory. 

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On 7/16/2016 at 7:04 PM, Steve Schwenke said:

Do you know any pastor who has every single doctrine and preference 100% correct?

So I think there is a distinction to be made between essential doctrine, and non-essential doctrine.  That is, doctrine that we cannot budge on at all, then other doctrines where we can respect each other where we don't agree.  

 

Yes, my pastor!  Well, maybe 99.99% :D

As for your second point, I see the opposite in the words of the bible.  If my local church one day started preaching the Gap, whomever did so would be admonished for it and if unable to vote them out, then I'd beat feet to a sound New Testament Church.  I've never seen a good NTC that taught the Gap, they always held to other doctrines in gross error because they did same the same with them as they did to believe in the fallacy of the gap, they redefined the meaning of God's Words to to tickle their ears.  The most glaring example around where I live, is their women dress like the world in all its immodesty and it goes without saying that they listen to CCM and secular rock music.  Scratch the surface and one will find even more offensive errors.   

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5 hours ago, heartstrings said:

OK

A few posts back, I asked the question;

Like I said, dinosaurs deserve an explanation and a "gap theory" is the closest thing I have found to one as of yet. That is why I asked; why are there no dinosaur bones in the La Brea Tarpit deposits? There have been thousands of extinct critters including mammoths. mastodons, smilodons(sabre-toothed cats) dire wolves, giant ground sloths etc. but out of hundreds of different species there have been no dinosaurs found. Why?

Well you could consider the fact that all dinosaurs are not extinct for one thing. They live all around us as reptiles. Ken Ham once said that if people would consider that most large dinosaurs that were on the ark - no more that 24 inches tall as an average - could easily mingle amongst the crowd in the ark.

Now we don't really have any 24 inch dinosaurs around my area of the country, but there are or were some Komodo Dragons at the Cincinnati Zoo a few years back.

A gap theory is not needed to explain dinosaurs at all. But back in the 1800's a bunch of ministers accepted that view to fend off believers who liked Darwinism, AND the Bible.

They had no other excuse the people would accept at that time. They corrupted the truth for comfort.

Reptiles are unlike most creatures - the older they get, the larger they get. So before the flood timeline you have reptiles living very long lives and continuing to grow - producing very large reptiles we recognize as dinosaurs. Since then ages of reptiles AND man have shortened an extreme amount. Compare the giant turtles - living sometimes hundreds of years - and their size, compared to their babies. Humongous size difference!

You might enjoy some Ken Ham documentaries.

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Swathdiver,

I understand where you are coming from regarding keeping a pure church.  One of the most important things to guard is our doctrine.  I get that.  I am a pastor, so I REALLY get that!  
My point here is that I believe there is a difference between heresy, error, and non-essential differences.  Some people teach it as DOCTRINE that a woman must always wear a dress.  To me that is not doctrine, that is preference, and certainly nothing to divide over.  Immodesty is something that should be warned against, the older women should teach the younger women what modesty is, with emphasis on "the inner man" (I Peter 3).  But to call it "heresy" to NOT teach that a woman should always wear a dress is a bit too far.

The same point applies to the gap.  There are plenty of good, sound churches who hold to the Gap, have good clean music, have modest women, and all of the above.  We as human beings are never going to fully agree on every little point, and the Bible does not expect that.  In fact, the Bible anticipates that we have minor differences.  But the Bible also expects us to set aside our minor differences, and come together into the unity of Christ.

This was the whole idea behind teh Fundamentalist movement in the early 1900's.  Rally around the fundamentals to fight against modernism and liberalism.  

And here I think we can be gracious enough with others on this Gap issue, if they are sound in most other places.  I am thinking of people like Oliver Greene and the like.  Good, sound, Bible believing people who have much truth and who can help us a great deal.  If you can't look past something like the Gap, and focus on what is good, in my opinion, we are not much better than any other cult.  

We can only listen to THESE preachers, and read THESE books, but anything with what I consider an ERROR cannot be read!!!  

Yep, that has "cult" written all over it!

 

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There are no more dinosaurs because dinosaurs are/were quite tasty.  Man gobbled them up faster than they could make more and their bones I'm sure were put to many good uses around the homestead and cities.  Anyone ever eaten alligator?  Quite good indeed!  

 

Preacher Schwenke, I would hesitate to call a congregation full of immodestly dressed women a New Testament Church.  The Lord says it is an abomination for a woman to dress as a man and visa versa.  Such is a matter of the heart and it is good and proper for the pastor to require his workers to dress properly to set an example for the other members.  

As for cults, the best way to steer clear of them is to have the scriptures be the sole authority for all matters of faith and practice.  Cults follow the dictates of man.  I lost several good friends to the Ruckman cult and his nutty doctrines.  Now having said that, I do not believe that everyone who likes Ruckman or some of his interpretations of bible doctrine is a cult follower.

Edited by swathdiver
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16 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Well you could consider the fact that all dinosaurs are not extinct for one thing. They live all around us as reptiles. Ken Ham once said that if people would consider that most large dinosaurs that were on the ark - no more that 24 inches tall as an average - could easily mingle amongst the crowd in the ark.

Now we don't really have any 24 inch dinosaurs around my area of the country, but there are or were some Komodo Dragons at the Cincinnati Zoo a few years back.

A gap theory is not needed to explain dinosaurs at all. But back in the 1800's a bunch of ministers accepted that view to fend off believers who liked Darwinism, AND the Bible.

They had no other excuse the people would accept at that time. They corrupted the truth for comfort.

Reptiles are unlike most creatures - the older they get, the larger they get. So before the flood timeline you have reptiles living very long lives and continuing to grow - producing very large reptiles we recognize as dinosaurs. Since then ages of reptiles AND man have shortened an extreme amount. Compare the giant turtles - living sometimes hundreds of years - and their size, compared to their babies. Humongous size difference!

You might enjoy some Ken Ham documentaries.

Geneva,

So you're saying that if a gecko, crocodile, horned toad, camelion or komodo dragon had the chance to live long enough, they would turn into dinosaurs? There is nothing living today thast even has the FORM of a dinosaur, size notwithstanding. Like I asked before, how come no dinos in the LaBrea tar pit deposits? Thousands of extinct mammal bones and zero dinosaurs.

FORM: there are no 'reptiles" living today with these body conformations; none.

Image result for dinosaurs

 

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It's a popular theory that dinos were just large lizards, and while it is possible a few were, because reptiles, generally, continue to grow as long as they live, and if they lived to be 600 years old, they'd be pretty impressive, I do agree that the bodies don't seem to correspond, for the most part, that the fossils we find. Though some may-like, who knows what a 600 year old horned lizard might look like at, say, 20' long? Or a komodo dragon, that gets 10 feet as is, if it had a few hundred more years to grow? However, I suspect many were unique animals, most of which died off at the flood. That Noah brought some along with him on the ark wouldn't surprise me, but they would be the dragons we hear of, most of which were killed off by 'heroes' and such. Lots of interesting stories of people encountering dinosaurs, much smaller than we generally think, because of the different atmosphere and shorter lifespans. And many may have died off after the flood if that is what began the ice age, as it were-a colder place for a while after the flood, another theory.

The bottom line is, we don't need a gap to explain the dinosaurs, the Bible says all the beasts of the field were created on day 6-we don't know how many, and there was probably a much larger land mass, and overall warmer weather all over, since the earth was created to be inhabited, the whole thing, unlike today were life is almost impossible in many places.

As for why they aren't found in the tar pits, well, who knows? They may have been, but it is kept from the public because it would destroy the theory, which is more important than fact to the evolutionary science position. And they certainly haven't found everything yet-if they were bigger, they may be lower down than the smaller mammals, or just too big to get stuck or sink in.

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Wayne, I believe that before the flood the oxygen content of the earth's atmosphere was much higher and her temperature was uniform across the globe.  Everything was bigger, birds, insects, animals and even giant men were common.  It stands to reason that the dinosaurs were bigger too.  Now come post flood, it's really hot in some places and really cold in others and the oxygen content of the air is less than half of what it once was.  Nothing now grows as big as before, generally speaking of course.

Outside of our church's school we have a mammoth bone that was unearthed nearby.  Further south, one if not two, I forget, mammoths were unearthed at Palm Beach International Airport during an expansion.  It is a sport for Florida divers to recover Mastadon? shark's teeth from freshwater caverns.  I have a zip lock bag full of fossilized shark's teeth from the surf of Gulf Coast beaches.

Man did indeed walk with dinosaurs.  An English pirate in the 1500s, David something, wrote an account of seeing a T-Rex along the Penobscot River and that the Indians were terrified of them as was he.  There are pictures on rocks and carved into wood all over the world of man with dinosaurs, including American Indians out west.  One kingdom had as a title the dragon feeder.    

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Swath, I agree-oxygen bubbles tested in some examples of amber show a higher amount of oxygen, up to 50% more than today. With a higher oxygen level and a stronger magnetic field, such huge animals could survive-they could not today at that size-they could not take in enough oxygen to breathe through the small nostrils in cases like Brachiosaurus, the size of a horse's nostrils.

I think the sharks you're talking about were the Megalodon shark, a gigantic shark, probably still alive, just smaller.

Another example of men and dinosaurs is the writings of Marco Polo who said that the Emperor of China had his chariot pulled in parades by two 'dragons', and that his court has an official 'Dragon Keeper'. Most of his writings are considered a first-hand view of reality, a reliable source. But this is often ignored or discounted.  

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I don't know if I buy the higher concentration of oxygen theory: Blue whales are by far the largest known creatures which have ever lived, and they get along just fine on today's oxygen; even holding their breath for long periods of time.

Blue-Whale-Size-Chart.jpg

 

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Big differences: they live in water, and have a much larger breathing apparatus than a Brachiosaurus did. They have two blowholes, larger than 20" each, (that's the size of a humpback, much smaller than a blue, so theirs could be as much as twice as large).   But the higher oxygen content would also explain why other animals grew so much larger, ie, giant sloths, 18' tall Rhinos, 6' beavers, dragonflies with a 50" wingspan, etc. Again the oxygen has been tested from bubbles in amber and found to be higher concentrate.

A brachiosaurus had nostrils the size of a horse's, which would be way insufficient for today's oxygen levels.

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