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I have to let a rant out.... If I hear the Gap theory one more time promoted by yet another IFB Pastor I am going scream!!!!

If we take the Bible literally and reverently there is no way to arrive at the erroneous gap theory. 

Here are some verses which not only poke a hole in the theory, but flatten it entirely:

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the FIRST heaven and the FIRST earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

"And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them AT THE BEGINNING made them male and female"

 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.   "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." "And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."

Besides the total misunderstanding of the ORIGINAL usage of the word "replenish" in ... the TRUE original meaning was "to fill" NOT to refill.

The next set of verses they attempt to use are " For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:  Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

What is so hard to understand about this??? There was the PRE-FLOOD earth (from Adam to Noah), the present day earth, and the new heaven and new earth (after the millennium, after the great white throne judgment, after the devil has been cast into the lake of fire for eternity). Sadly... many even misunderstand the difference between the new heaven and new earth in comparison with the millennial kingdom on earth. It's very simple!  

"10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.   11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

In Rev. 20 we see the devil being bound and thrown into the bottomless pit for a thousand years. (v.1-3)  then if we go down to v. 7-8 to the end of the millennial reign on earth, the devil is loosed out of his prison the deceive the nations for the last time (v.7-8) NEXT we see the devil is defeated and cast into the lake of fire for eternity (v.10). And the very next verse tells us TWO VERY VITAL pieces of information: #1 The great white throne judgment #2 the earth and heaven flee from the face of God, and "there was no place found for them". This is the event which can readily be understood to be reference where "...the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 

The next chapter (Rev. 21) starts off like this (so there should be zero doubt): "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."  Rev. 21-22 tells us about the new heaven, the new earth, the new Jerusalem.  I've heard some very mixed up eschatology attempting to place this event at the end of the tribulation and prior to the millennium. It's plain literal word meaning proves this is impossible. The new heavens and new earth cannot be created until after the devil is dealt with for the final time and cast into the lake of fire for eternity!!!

 The millennium WILL be a time of restoration of BLESSING and removal of CURSE upon the earth (as much OT scripture shows). However, it will not be the new heaven and the new earth! That cannot happen until after the devil's 1000 yr stay in the bottomless pit, after he is loosed a short season to deceive the nations, and after he is dealt with for the final time and thrown into the lake of fire for eternity.  THEN and only then will God create the new heaven and new earth (as states of the new heaven and new earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness".  Righteousness cannot dwell completely until the devil is gone for good!  We can surely understand why God wouldn't want to create the new heaven and new earth only to have it defiled by sin and defiled by the devil! It's so easy to understand when we just read it in order (especially , noting that the next chapter tells of the new heaven and new earth, and this information regarding the new heaven and the new earth comes AFTER the great white throne judgment, AFTER the devil has been permanently cast into the lake of fire. 

All that... just to say... the gap theory is so unscriptural and unsound... I can't comprehend why anyone would teach it, much less buy into it! The only possible reasons I can find is that they are either wanting to make a compromise with the world (and Darwinism garbage) OR they just refuse to take God at His literal, reverent, Holy word! Either way, there is no fear of God when one twists scripture like that. 

Frustrations vented... (for now). Have a blessed evening. With all of the false teaching going on in the world, I just can't see how the Lord can tarry. God won't be mocked. These are the last days, the perilous times of and v.13... and the gap theory? Definitely a fable Paul warned about in 2 Tim 4:2-4.    MARANATHA!!!! (and soon, I pray)

 

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That's an easy one These tar pits are in LA and no self-respecting dinosaur would live anywhere close to LA with all the smog and gangs and whatnot.

Well, actually...the Lord Jesus Christ said that he was a murderer from the beginning. Do you believe that God created Satan as the evil, lying, murdering devil that we know? Or.. Did G

I was just doing a bit of searching today and found this article by Henry Morris. It's a really good summary as to why the gap theory (or whatever name its proponents want to call it) is false. And ho

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Agree.;)

 

Just one question........

You said at the start: " If I hear the Gap theory one more time promoted by yet another IFB Pastor I am going scream!!!! "

Where are you hearing all these IFB Pastors talking about the Gap theory?

I am thankful to say that appears to be one false teaching that  doesn't get much time here...........

 

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The Gap Theory is spewed as fact in Ruckman's churches, many of which use "Bible Believer's" as part of the name of their church.  They have also unwittingly become protestant in doctrine as they also believe in the Universal, Invisible, Church.

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18 hours ago, DaveW said:

Agree.;)

 

Just one question........

You said at the start: " If I hear the Gap theory one more time promoted by yet another IFB Pastor I am going scream!!!! "

Where are you hearing all these IFB Pastors talking about the Gap theory?

I am thankful to say that appears to be one false teaching that  doesn't get much time here...........

 

Not on TV, that's for certain. There are ZERO pastors on TV with which I'd  recommend. But various places online. Sermonaudio and youtube for a small sampling. Also by going through search engine results looking for "Independent Fundamental Baptist" sermons and Sunday school classes. I also go through the "Fundamental Baptist top 500/1000" (which is probably how I found this site (Online Baptist) a little over a year ago.  Here is a link: http://fundamentaltop500.com/

Yes, it requires countless hours of weeding out the unsound pastors (and there are plenty of those online even of the "IFB"). I'm disabled (a "shut-in") so I spend several hours a day listening to sermons when I'm not doing actual Bible study and fellowshipping in groups with other believers. I'd rather not name this last pastor I am ranting about.... He had been so very sound in so many Biblical areas I had been listening to his Sunday sermons, Sunday morning and Sunday evening "Sunday School" teachings, as well as his Wednesday night Bible study sessions for the last half a year or so.... I had even promoted his sermons to friends (something I rarely EVER do) But since I'd heard so many of his teachings/sermons and agreed with them to be Biblically sound, I made the decision (huge mistake) of passing on his sermon links to a couple of dear sisters who asked my opinion on a "good pastor" to listen to online. Again... it was several months of listening to him at least 4x a week before I gave his sermon links to the sisters who had asked. Now I need to remember which sisters I gave the links to and warn them about him!

However,  I just ran across his teaching on the "gap theory" (garbage) yesterday, and needless to say it was another HUGE disappointment. Hence the rant!!! That makes at least 3 pastors (in just recent days)  I formerly thought were sound for several months before hearing something I totally disagreed with. There are things which are NOT a huge doctrinal issue and then there are things that ARE a huge doctrinal issue to me. The gap theory is one of those huge doctrinal issues I just totally disagree with.. it may not even sound like a doctrinal to some, but if they don't revere God's word enough not to ADD to it and TWIST to suit a theory, then I prefer not to listen to them at all.  If they can't take the very first chapter of the first book of the Bible literally and reverently... there's little doubt they are going to teach me something sound that I hadn't heard before.  It also makes everything else that comes out of their mouth suspect from that point on. 

My uncle was an Independent Fundamental Baptist from his 20's until his late 70's when he passed on to be with the Lord. He had a certain way of preaching which I admit I got a bit spoiled for.  Back when he graduated seminary (before my time), seminary was definitely different back then. They came out of there preaching fire and brimstone if you know what I mean.  I also have different beliefs on dispensations (as did all the IFB people I knew growing up, and also was friends with before coming here) than most do here on OB.  I won't open up that can of worms at the moment. But when I came here I was under the false assumption that most all fundamental independent Baptists believed the same way I do.  WOW... was I wrong!  This is nothing negative meant towards this site (OB), but I have to say there are more diverse beliefs here than on many non-denominational "rapture" groups I belong to.  Actually, the ones I don't agree with on the "rapture" groups are generally Charismatic and they are "pleading the blood", as well as erroneously claiming the sign gifts for today :( Other than them (charismatics), it seems there are more like-minded, like-believing IFB on the rapture groups than here on an actual IFB forum (again not knocking this forum just stating an honest observation).

As for the pastors I listen to online.. There are several pastors I agree with 90%, and I will still listen to (yet not promote). There are a few I agree with 95% (and I have old cassette tapes, hundreds of them, of my uncle preaching) But most of those others that I agree with 95% have written work (which I read when I don't have one of my home health aides here... they are too distracting to study in depth while they are present But I can listen to audio/video while they are here, since I can just rewind to whatever I missed (harder for me to pick up where I left off reading with constant interruption). Out of the 95% that I agree most with are MANY who have passed on. To me... that shows how churches and teachings have changed over the last several decades as the older pastors pass on and the younger ones takes their place. Seminary or Bible college is not the same at all as it used to be (according to my uncle before he passed on). He gave me many "for instances" of things that have crept into the seminaries/Bible colleges, but I don't care to open up that can of worms either and get into those issues on this forum.

There are several good pastors here on this forum (OB) as well. And they all love the Lord and have a desire to serve Him! Some have seminary/Bible college training, some do not and it's certainly NOT a requirement!!! Brother Jim here on the forum is an excellent example of a wonderful pastor who hasn't been to seminary/Bible college, yet he has given MANY MANY excellent devotions/studies on the forum, and has a  true desire to serve the Lord which shines through his posts and conversations.  He and I would not agree in all points (as I would not agree with most other pastors here specifically in regard to dispensationalism as nor would they agree with me) , but when we've had discussions he (Jim) is always patient to answer any questions I've had and I can understand where he got his ideas (from a Biblical perspective) and he can understand where I got mine (from a Biblical perspective) and yet we still disagree and leave the conversation in disagreement yet not in anger. No amount of college training can teach a pastor these kind of traits (but I'm not knocking the pastors here who have had training). I just gave him as an example of one who hasn't had "formal" training, yet he is a pastor I highly respect (out of the others here whom I respect as well). 

Yes, this post is long... as are most of my posts... But since you asked where I was hearing them (and seemed to be wondering why I was listening to so many pastors) I wanted to fully explain. I spend as much of my days as I can in God's word, listening to sermons/Bible studies, and or fellowshipping with fellow believers on various groups. I am non-ambulatory and so since my arms have become too weak to quilt or knit now, it has actually been a blessing filling my days immersed in God's word. I type up a storm while my fingers still work. I've got to keep my arms propped up with pillows and my body supported to type now, it takes me a LOT longer to type than it used to, but I am thankful for the ability to type while I still have it! I hope it's the last thing to "go". But even if the wrist/fingers go also... I have audio Bible and hopefully my home health aides will be able to load sermonaudio files or videos I've saved on flash drives. . Better yet... the Blessed Hope! Prior to being diagnosed I believed in the pre-trib rapture. I always understood it to be imminent, and always had the hope the rapture would happen before my body totally gives out but never felt that I saw end time prophecy lining up before. So yes it was a hope and as always an IMMINENT hope.  But now... as I see countless end time Bible prophecies lining up, and knowing (to me it's a fact) that the rapture happens prior to the tribulation, I have even more assurance that Jesus will soon be taking us up to meet Him in the air!  I honestly believe there's not much time left before the age of grace closes (certainly not just because of my physical condition since I believed the pre-trib rapture prior to ever getting PPMS and a spinal cord disease) And if He tarries, I am fine with that also since He wants ALL to come to saving belief. I've came to grips with the fact that my lifespan will be shorter than most (should the Lord tarry) and I'm ready to go either way. 

Titus 2:13 " Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" 

Maranatha!!!

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I only asked because I have only personally met one ifb preacher who teaches the gap theory.

I would suggest that you be more careful in who you listen to, but it appears you are on top of that. ;)

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I know Gipp was a friend of Ruckman but did not know that he believed in the Gap Theory.  Several times I've rooted through Gipp's videos and never once came across him preaching anything of Ruckman's.  Guess I didn't spend enough time at it.

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Yes my sister in Louisiana attends and IFB church that uses a lot of Ruckman's materials and they have a "Bible" timeline posted in their sanctuary that includes the gap. Thankfully my sister and her family don't buy into it, But I know that we have gone round and round with some here on the subject before.

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24 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

I know Gipp was a friend of Ruckman but did not know that he believed in the Gap Theory.  Several times I've rooted through Gipp's videos and never once came across him preaching anything of Ruckman's.  Guess I didn't spend enough time at it.

It's been a couple of years ago, and I found it in some writing of his that I can't even remember what the subject of it was. He brought it in as a side-note apart from what the article was about. I probably shouldn't have mentioned his name since I can't provide the source. I'll try to find it again.

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I was first introduced to it, not long after I was saved, by another IFB church member. I mentioned it to my pastor at the time, who denounced it as false teaching. referring to it as a belief in a "Pre-Adamic Earth" The very next pastor, basically chosen for us by the first, taught just the opposite referring to it as : "the Gap Fact". But he also taught us bizarre stuff like; a person inherits their blood from their father and their body from their mother, Noah put a curse on Black people, Noah's son Ham committed "a homosexual act", and angels "cohabited with women". Basically, my only questions pertaining to it is; what happened to the dinosaurs and when were they here? It's all interesting, but it would be pointless to get into it again.

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Yes Hearthstrings... there are so many crazy additions to scripture it's hard to keep track of.  The latest is a resurgence of the "flat earth" people. It's INSANE that we should even have to refute such a thing... yet I see it often on other venues lately. I have to wonder if they are mentally unbalanced as well as not able to spiritually discern? Because they certainly do cling to the crazy flat earth theory tenaciously! They also are usually the ones who resort to name calling and insults when they can't find any truthful argument for it, so it's likely more of a heart condition than just plain crazy. The devil must be pleased with so many evil lies being propagated now days. 

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It takes thousands of years to make a fossil. Yet, they dug up fossilized hardtack from the civil war.  

According to the same people the earth is 4.5 billion years old and space is 13.5 billion years. A 9 billion year gap. 

A 4.27 billion year gap then a dinosaur was found that lived 228 million years ago. Its very odd because the first dinosaur appeared only 65 million years ago. Its bones must have traveled back in time to create this large gap.

Finally man appears 200,000 years ago and about 6,000 years ago civilization started. Another large gap.

We need at least 10,000 years for a bone to fossilize. So 4,000 before civilization the La Brea Woman was ceremonially buried by Indians who had no civilization and her bones turned into a fossil.

Page Museum says she is only 9,000 years old, giving us yet another gap in how long it takes to make a fossil.

Going away from Genesis leads into madness. 

 

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On July 10, 2016 at 5:53 PM, swathdiver said:

The Gap Theory is spewed as fact in Ruckman's churches, many of which use "Bible Believer's" as part of the name of their church.  They have also unwittingly become protestant in doctrine as they also believe in the Universal, Invisible, Church.

And they teach that men were saved by works in the old testament

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On July 12, 2016 at 9:15 PM, swathdiver said:

I know Gipp was a friend of Ruckman but did not know that he believed in the Gap Theory.  Several times I've rooted through Gipp's videos and never once came across him preaching anything of Ruckman's.  Guess I didn't spend enough time at it.

 

On July 12, 2016 at 9:42 PM, No Nicolaitans said:

It's been a couple of years ago, and I found it in some writing of his that I can't even remember what the subject of it was. He brought it in as a side-note apart from what the article was about. I probably shouldn't have mentioned his name since I can't provide the source. I'll try to find it again.

I've tried to find it...to no avail. All that I can say is that I didn't make it up...but that's not proof.

Oliver B. Greene also taught a gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

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5 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

 

I've tried to find it...to no avail. All that I can say is that I didn't make it up...but that's not proof.

Oliver B. Greene also taught a gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

Wow. That surprises me. 

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21 minutes ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

Wow. That surprises me. 

Surprised me too when I first heard him mention it. I listen to him quite often still, and he touches on it every now and then in his radio programs. I don't know if it's in any of the books or commentary that he wrote.

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Apparently, Curtis Hutson believed there was a gap too...he goes right into it at the very beginning of the audio. It's from 1974 though, so I don't know if he kept that view.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/BTP/Dr_Curtis_Hutson/demonology_part_1.mp3

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On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 3:25 PM, MountainChristian said:

It takes thousands of years to make a fossil. Yet, they dug up fossilized hardtack from the civil war.  

According to the same people the earth is 4.5 billion years old and space is 13.5 billion years. A 9 billion year gap. 

A 4.27 billion year gap then a dinosaur was found that lived 228 million years ago. Its very odd because the first dinosaur appeared only 65 million years ago. Its bones must have traveled back in time to create this large gap.

Finally man appears 200,000 years ago and about 6,000 years ago civilization started. Another large gap.

We need at least 10,000 years for a bone to fossilize. So 4,000 before civilization the La Brea Woman was ceremonially buried by Indians who had no civilization and her bones turned into a fossil.

Page Museum says she is only 9,000 years old, giving us yet another gap in how long it takes to make a fossil.

Going away from Genesis leads into madness. 

 

Is "La Brea Woman" fossilized? I thought something had to be organic to be carbon dated.

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It's also interesting that some 600 species of animals have been discovered thus far at the La Brea Tar Pits site., Out of all the bizarre forms of extinct "megafauna" like dire wolves, American Lions, camels, giant ground sloths, sabre-toothed cats, mastodons, mammoths etc. not one dinosaur has been found, not even a crocodile.

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In the world of make believe evolutionary science, each year the earth ages 21 million years to satisfy the fickle minds of the evolutionists.

Anyone can fossilize an object in a 5 gallon bucket within a matter of months.  

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It's interesting, over the last month, I think, I have read three articles on items found encased in amber. A fact about amber-no one has any idea how long it take for sap to become amber, yet they are always assumed to be millions of years old.  So we have first, lizards found in amber, http://www.livescience.com/53948-lizards-trapped-in-ancient-amber.html ; then a bird's wing, http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/bird-wings-dating-back-age-dinosaurs-found-frozen-amber-180959599/?no-ist , then a spider, http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/07/new-spider-species-cretaceous-burmese-amber-extreme-projection-horned-fangs/ .

If you read the articles, you'll find some interesting 'facts': like, ALL of them are dated at 99 million years. Not 100 million, but 99, each one. None of the articles give any indication as to how they came to this conclusion-how does one date amber? And since no one knows how long it takes to become amber, are they really particularly old at all? While much is said about, say the bird feathers and the bird they BELIEVE they came from, they don't know-it's all weasel words, "Might have", and "It is believed" or 'It is thought". But they don't know. And there is nothing about these critters that says they are anything different than a bird, or spider or lizard around today. So they could be ten years old, 50, 100. But always "99 mmmmmiiiiiiillion years old".  Also, they are referred to as fossils or mummified, neither of which is possible in something encased in amber-'preserved' would be the proper term, but these science journals and websites seem to have a hard time even with the basic terminology.

Evolutionary science is so severely flawed it is scary. Scary that anyone accepts it. I am temped to find a tree with some good sap, put a bug in it, and keep it to see how long it takes to become amber, maybe sell it and get into the science magazines. I am already trying to see if I can fossilize a goat-had a goats die about ten years ago-right after it did, I dug a nice deep hole, filled it with water, put in the goat and covered him with mud, then dirt. We have a lot of minerals in our soil, so in a few years I may dig him up and see if we have manages to fossils anything on him.

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2 hours ago, swathdiver said:

In the world of make believe evolutionary science, each year the earth ages 21 million years to satisfy the fickle minds of the evolutionists.

Anyone can fossilize an object in a 5 gallon bucket within a matter of months.  

I'm always looking for little science projects to do with my grandson; can you tell me how to do that?

1 hour ago, Ukulelemike said:

It's interesting, over the last month, I think, I have read three articles on items found encased in amber. A fact about amber-no one has any idea how long it take for sap to become amber, yet they are always assumed to be millions of years old.  So we have first, lizards found in amber, http://www.livescience.com/53948-lizards-trapped-in-ancient-amber.html ; then a bird's wing, http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/bird-wings-dating-back-age-dinosaurs-found-frozen-amber-180959599/?no-ist , then a spider, http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/07/new-spider-species-cretaceous-burmese-amber-extreme-projection-horned-fangs/ .

If you read the articles, you'll find some interesting 'facts': like, ALL of them are dated at 99 million years. Not 100 million, but 99, each one. None of the articles give any indication as to how they came to this conclusion-how does one date amber? And since no one knows how long it takes to become amber, are they really particularly old at all? While much is said about, say the bird feathers and the bird they BELIEVE they came from, they don't know-it's all weasel words, "Might have", and "It is believed" or 'It is thought". But they don't know. And there is nothing about these critters that says they are anything different than a bird, or spider or lizard around today. So they could be ten years old, 50, 100. But always "99 mmmmmiiiiiiillion years old".  Also, they are referred to as fossils or mummified, neither of which is possible in something encased in amber-'preserved' would be the proper term, but these science journals and websites seem to have a hard time even with the basic terminology.

Evolutionary science is so severely flawed it is scary. Scary that anyone accepts it. I am temped to find a tree with some good sap, put a bug in it, and keep it to see how long it takes to become amber, maybe sell it and get into the science magazines. I am already trying to see if I can fossilize a goat-had a goats die about ten years ago-right after it did, I dug a nice deep hole, filled it with water, put in the goat and covered him with mud, then dirt. We have a lot of minerals in our soil, so in a few years I may dig him up and see if we have manages to fossils anything on him.

Poor goat :(

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5 hours ago, heartstrings said:

I'm always looking for little science projects to do with my grandson; can you tell me how to do that?

Poor goat :(

You know, in your business, as well as me, that it happens sometimes, just an unfortunate side-effect of keeping livestock.

 

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8 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

You know, in your business, as well as me, that it happens sometimes, just an unfortunate side-effect of keeping livestock.

 

Yeah, I was just goofing off.  Carry on, bury them deep. ;)

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Not going to say much on this topic.  Scofield and Larkin (both baptists) taught the gap as well.  
Here is the thing.  OK, so somebody teaches the Gap.  I guess I am not seeing it as a "problem" if you are for or against it.  I don't see how it affects the doctrine on anything else.  I don't see how it affects the OT Law, or how it affects the NT church.  It is one of those things that is debatable (to some at least!).  If you don't agree with it, fine.  To me, it is something worth discussing and debating, but it is certainly not something worth dividing over.  It has little to no effect on our core doctrines.

That's all I will say.

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1 hour ago, Steve Schwenke said:

Not going to say much on this topic.  Scofield and Larkin (both baptists) taught the gap as well.  
Here is the thing.  OK, so somebody teaches the Gap.  I guess I am not seeing it as a "problem" if you are for or against it.  I don't see how it affects the doctrine on anything else.  I don't see how it affects the OT Law, or how it affects the NT church.  It is one of those things that is debatable (to some at least!).  If you don't agree with it, fine.  To me, it is something worth discussing and debating, but it is certainly not something worth dividing over.  It has little to no effect on our core doctrines.

That's all I will say.

I don't know that I can agree with you here-I think it DOES effect a lot of doctrine. For instance, how could God look at His entire creation, all He had created and made, and declare it all very good, if part of that creation had already fallen into sin, rebellion and destruction? Remember, part of the gap theory is that Day 1 is before the gap, the rest is after it, so all that God has made before and during that gap period HAD to be included in the context of ALL that God had created and made. So then God is saying that Satan, now Lucifer, is good, the fallen angels, good, all the death underneath the renewed earth, all good. I cannot buy that.

It also completely skews the idea of the clearly literal six-day creation, if in the middle of it, there were millions of years of days. Throughout the Bible, God declares that He created the earth and heavens in 6 days-that means all the heavens He created on day 1 as well, that the Gap folks say was just obscured and revealed on day 4.

Not to mention that it includes death before Adam, despite the fact the Bible says clearly that man brought sin, and death by sin-the clear reference is toward Adam's sin, not Lucifer's sin. Lucifer convinced man to sin, but death didn't come until Adam had sinned. So all that death during the gap could not have occurred.

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Mike, I am not going to debate you on the gap.  The point I was trying to make was this.  All of your objections have been noted.  But do the people who are teaching the gap teaching the things you are objecting to?  If they are not teaching the things you are objecting to, then the doctrine has NOT been affected.
I do not know any IFB's who believe the Gap to teach anything about evolution, or deny the 6 literal days of creation as listed in Genesis 1.  They simply move it as a re-creation.  the time element before the Gap is completely irrelevant to the pro-gappers.  
In short, your objections are based on things that are NOT being taught by the pro-gappers - at least not by the IFB version of it.  
They still believe in the distinction between Israel, the church, the OT, the NT, the sufficiency of the Cross, the Blood of Christ, Heaven, Hell, New Heaven, New Earth, etc. etc. etc.

 

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Holding fast to the errors of the Gap Theory piles on other errors as well.  Such is the way of most protestant churches these days.  in a great many cases, when they hold to the Gap, they then get the Lord's Supper and Baptism wrong, they then believe in the universal, invisible church, divorced pastors and the list of heresies goes on and on.

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Do you know any pastor who has every single doctrine and preference 100% correct?
I don't.  

NOBODY has EVERYTHING correct.  We are all still sinners, and we are all prone to error.  
Oliver Greene taught the gap. 
John R. Rice endorsed the NASB.  
John R. Rice's reference Bible was not a pure KJV.  
This is not to disparage either of those men, because they both did great good in their ministries!  But they were wrong on THOSE points.
So let's call a person out on their errors, and be edified by them where they are right.  
There are many people who teach the gap who have tremendous insight into Scripture on many points, and we can all be edified by them.  Why toss them out over the gap?  To me that is total nonsense.  

Now if it is the case as Mike made, then sure.  Or if they get off into "weirdology" fine.  But if the core of their teaching and preaching is in the main sound, good, and edifying, then I believe it is a bit reactionary to toss ALL pro-gappers out.  

So I think there is a distinction to be made between essential doctrine, and non-essential doctrine.  That is, doctrine that we cannot budge on at all, then other doctrines where we can respect each other where we don't agree.  

IMO, since the Gap does not affect major doctrine, I would classify it as non-essential.  

Do as you please!  I see no reason to divide over the issue.

 

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1 hour ago, Steve Schwenke said:

Do you know any pastor who has every single doctrine and preference 100% correct?
I don't.  

NOBODY has EVERYTHING correct.  We are all still sinners, and we are all prone to error.  
Oliver Greene taught the gap. 
John R. Rice endorsed the NASB.  
John R. Rice's reference Bible was not a pure KJV.  
This is not to disparage either of those men, because they both did great good in their ministries!  But they were wrong on THOSE points.
So let's call a person out on their errors, and be edified by them where they are right.  
There are many people who teach the gap who have tremendous insight into Scripture on many points, and we can all be edified by them.  Why toss them out over the gap?  To me that is total nonsense.  

Now if it is the case as Mike made, then sure.  Or if they get off into "weirdology" fine.  But if the core of their teaching and preaching is in the main sound, good, and edifying, then I believe it is a bit reactionary to toss ALL pro-gappers out.  

So I think there is a distinction to be made between essential doctrine, and non-essential doctrine.  That is, doctrine that we cannot budge on at all, then other doctrines where we can respect each other where we don't agree.  

IMO, since the Gap does not affect major doctrine, I would classify it as non-essential.  

Do as you please!  I see no reason to divide over the issue.

 

If someone through a particular point of view denies the accuracy of the literal reading of the Word of God, are they not opening up the possibility for other parts of the bible to be questioned?

Is there not a danger in that should be considered?

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2 hours ago, Steve Schwenke said:

Mike, I am not going to debate you on the gap.  The point I was trying to make was this.  All of your objections have been noted.  But do the people who are teaching the gap teaching the things you are objecting to?  If they are not teaching the things you are objecting to, then the doctrine has NOT been affected.
I do not know any IFB's who believe the Gap to teach anything about evolution, or deny the 6 literal days of creation as listed in Genesis 1.  They simply move it as a re-creation.  the time element before the Gap is completely irrelevant to the pro-gappers.  
In short, your objections are based on things that are NOT being taught by the pro-gappers - at least not by the IFB version of it.  
They still believe in the distinction between Israel, the church, the OT, the NT, the sufficiency of the Cross, the Blood of Christ, Heaven, Hell, New Heaven, New Earth, etc. etc. etc.

 

Mind you, Steve, I am not seeking to be hostile toward you-I understand what you're saying, I'm just saying that to hold to a gap, unless they are doing it seriously ignorantly, they MUST deny the very words of God.

. Ex 20:11-"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it"

Ex 31:17- "It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed"

By these two verses it is clear that everything, including the heaven (before the gap, including all there was within them, both heaven, AND the earth) in six days. This cannot allow for anything else but those six days since days one and two have to be split by millions of years. The very foundation of time and how it is kept is based on six literal days. It also strives against the very concept of the origins of sin and death. Those are extremely serious things and they cannot be ignored by anyone who holds to a gap. That's all I'm saying-I believe it is very dangerous.

   
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Mike and Dave
i understand your objections.  However, those who hold to the gap - at least in the IFB world - do not deny a literal 6-day re-creation as listed in Genesis 3.  This comes down to a matter of interpretation.  They believe every word literally.   To say otherwise is disingenuous.  What you are saying is that if they don't agree with you, then they are not Biblical literalists.  This is not true.  If it were true, then we would be able to find major doctrinal problems across the board in their teachings.  If they were not Biblical literalists, then they not only take liberties in Genesis 1, they would also take liberties throughout the Bible.  They don't. 

There is no slippery slope here, so far as I can see.

Blessings!
 

In Christ,

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21 hours ago, swathdiver said:

divorced pastors

Hey, I believe ALL pastors should be divorced  -----------  divorced from self-will, divorced from popular opinion, and the list goes on and on and on....

 

Like I tell my kids sometimes -- I won't say that I couldn't help posting it, I could have but choose not to.

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