What is a "Landmark" Baptist church

[Wmccarthy99 43]

I've been looking for a new church. I've gone to two Wednesday evening services at an IFB church and really liked it, but it's an hour away. The only ones that I've found that are closer are both "Landmark" Baptist churches. At first I thought it was just their name but while reading about them on their website they talk about holding to traditional "Landmark" beliefs. Does anyone know anything about this?

[No Nicolaitans 3,397]

In short, they believe that only Landmark Baptists will be the bride of Christ. All other believers are known as "the family of God", and they will be the servants during the marriage supper of the Lamb.

[360watt 25]

I am part of a missionary landmark baptist church.. independent missionary baptist.

A key teaching.. which is not just limited to 'landmark' baptists.. is that the body of Christ is a local body and not every believer.

I would disagree with No Nicolaitans that it is only landmark baptist churches that are the churches Jesus calls His own.  There are many many many other churches that don't carry that name but have the same or very similar beliefs that would also be considered a church Jesus would call His.

The teaching that the body of Christ is a local body only.. comes from looking at what the meaning of 'church' is originally. 

Jesus said 'on this rock I will build my church' .. is this talking about every believer.. or a reference to the local church -New Testament assembly that He would be building and continuing thru other churches?

Church = ecclessia.

 

Ecclessia- generally meant an assembly.. congregation..  

And according to one scholar .. if it ever lost the idea of assembling and congregating it would cease to be a one.  If it doesn't assemble or congregate.. it isn't a 'church'

Every believer.. doesn't assemble, congregrate.. how can that be 'the church'?

Landmark baptists I think would believe there will one day be a gathering of all christians together as one body in heaven..  but it is still a visible, local assembly.

On earth.. now.. what we have is churches plural.. but not one church of every believer yet.

The only thing I will add is that IFB is sometimes the same thing as Landmark Baptist.

A Landmark Baptist church would generally be.. independent, fundamental, baptist.

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by 360watt

[DaveW 4,115]

Landmark Baptists are quite hard to nail down as each one is a little bit different to the next one.

Outsiders will generally consider them to be "baptist bride" as outlined above, but then as 360watt explains that is not quite universal - and in fact you will rarely hear any Landmarker use that term about themselves.

However, I know some guys over here that would deny the "landmark name" but are always talking about the bride in ways similar to that.

I have been told also that Landmarkers tend towards Calvinism, but these same guys I spoke of last line are anything but Calvinists - vehemently opposed - probably even moreso than myself.

As to 360's point on local church only - this is not an attribute of landmarkers alone. Most Independent Baptists I personally know are solid local church people.

The name comes from "Holding to the landmarks of the Faith", and some of them tend to be almost militant in their separation from anything less than themselves. I have met some to whom I would ascribe a certain pride in their belief that they hold a better position than lesser Christians, but this is a minority, and they are not the sole holders of that either.

 

The point really is that you have to check out what they believe on a case by case basis, because there are some reasonable folk among their number, and some absolute nutters, and that in itself makes it hard to define exactly what landmarks each church holds to.

Other things I can't remember right now.........

[No Nicolaitans 3,397]

10 hours ago, 360watt said:

I would disagree with No Nicolaitans

If I was wrong, I apologize. Wmccarthy99 asked if anyone knew anything about LBs...so I gave information that I know about LBs from the LBs I'm familiar with. Since you are a Landmarker, I will defer to you. However, as far as I know, the Bride of Christ and Family of God as guests and/or servants at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb teaching is also a key teaching of Landmark Baptists.

 

[Wmccarthy99 43]

3 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

 

13 hours ago, 360watt said:

I would disagree with No Nicolaitans

If I was wrong, I apologize. Wmccarthy99 asked if anyone knew anything about LBs...so I gave information that I know about LBs from the LBs I'm familiar with. Since you are a Landmarker, I will defer to you. However, as far as I know, the Bride of Christ and Family of God as guests and/or servants at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb teaching is also a key teaching of Landmark Baptists.

 

Thanks for all the info everyone. It seems that a good number of the IFB churches in my area are Landmark Baptists. One of the churches is pretty straight forward in their statement of faith saying they believe that only the members of the local independent fundamental baptist church will be the Bride of Christ. I can't say I agree with that.

[360watt 25]

21 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

If I was wrong, I apologize. Wmccarthy99 asked if anyone knew anything about LBs...so I gave information that I know about LBs from the LBs I'm familiar with. Since you are a Landmarker, I will defer to you. However, as far as I know, the Bride of Christ and Family of God as guests and/or servants at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb teaching is also a key teaching of Landmark Baptists.

 

No worries

I have been under the impression that if you want to find a church God would call His own.. then you go to key doctrines that haven't changed thru the centuries since the first New Testament churches.

So.. landmark baptists.. would call for 'not removing the ancient landmarks'.. referring to the the key doctrines of the early churches that should be kept in churches now if they are to be called one of Jesus' churches.

I only have experience though of these churches being mainly non-calvinist.. and also non-armenian.. knowing mainly of churches in the Baptist Missionary Alliance and the American Baptist Association..plus a few here in New Zealand.

But really.. as far as teaching goes.. my church would have the same teaching as a whole lot of bible Baptists churches as well as independent missionary baptists.. and there will be many many churches with no denomination but actually have the same teaching. There are also Southern Baptist churches that hadn't changed their teaching from the past and have the same teaching.

Anyway.. I would need to look at what the bride of Christ is referred to in Revelation compared to the Family of God to give a definite answer.

 

[swathdiver 1,759]

Every New Testament Church, of the kind that Christ built and died for during his earthly ministry, will be the Bride.  Within each of those local, visible churches, only those who are genuinely born-again will be there.  The unsaved ones will be in hell, the Rock-N-Roll Christian might be found standing next to John the Baptist as a guest, as well as might be a Mormon who got saved but went back into error, same with a Catholic but of these, there will be very few, as there will be so very few who take the straight gate anyway.  

As mentioned previously, not all New Testament Churches have the word Baptist or identifiers as IFB.  A hundred years ago they didn't, a thousand years ago they went by other names and if the Lord tarries, they'll have new names again long after we're all gone home to glory.

There is a large church a few hours away that ours unites and fellowships with with Landmark in their name.  They are not Baptist Briders.  I am all for not removing the ancient landmarks of my Baptist ancestors when they are in agreement with God's Word!  

[Invicta 1,553]

On 7/10/2016 at 11:48 PM, swathdiver said:

Every New Testament Church, of the kind that Christ built and died for during his earthly ministry, will be the Bride.  Within each of those local, visible churches, only those who are genuinely born-again will be there.  The unsaved ones will be in hell, the Rock-N-Roll Christian might be found standing next to John the Baptist as a guest, as well as might be a Mormon who got saved but went back into error, same with a Catholic but of these, there will be very few, as there will be so very few who take the straight gate anyway.  

As mentioned previously, not all New Testament Churches have the word Baptist or identifiers as IFB.  A hundred years ago they didn't, a thousand years ago they went by other names and if the Lord tarries, they'll have new names again long after we're all gone home to glory.

There is a large church a few hours away that ours unites and fellowships with with Landmark in their name.  They are not Baptist Briders.  I am all for not removing the ancient landmarks of my Baptist ancestors when they are in agreement with God's Word!  

I cannot agree with you.  The bride will consist of all true believers in Christ. 

[swathdiver 1,759]

27 minutes ago, Invicta said:

 The bride will consist of all true believers in Christ. 

Not so.  The Old Testament Saints and John the Baptist are specifically mentioned as being guests at the wedding and they are true believers in Christ.  

Stick with the Scriptures.

http://www.baptistpillar.com/article_073.html

http://www.baptistpillar.com/article_983d.html

http://www.baptistpillar.com/article_072.html

[DaveW 4,115]

56 minutes ago, Invicta said:

I cannot agree with you.  The bride will consist of all true believers in Christ. 

Serious question:

Who are "they which are called" if all true believers make up the bride?

Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

The bride is spoken of separately in the previous verses.

I think we can safely assume that the unrighteous will not be invited, so who are these "guests"?

 

[Invicta 1,553]

Are you seriously both saying that all true believers won't be called?  As our preacher said this morning, quoting the hymn. Have you heard the voice of Jesus, softly calling in your heart?  He said if you have never heard that voice, you are not saved.

[DaveW 4,115]

39 minutes ago, Invicta said:

Are you seriously both saying that all true believers won't be called?  As our preacher said this morning, quoting the hymn. Have you heard the voice of Jesus, softly calling in your heart?  He said if you have never heard that voice, you are not saved.

Did you bother to read the question, or even the verse?

Why don't you go ahead and do that, then reply.

[Invicta 1,553]

I did read the post and the question.  I still don't understand your reasoning.I also read most of http://www.baptistpillar.com/article_073.html I gave up because his reasoning is so twisted.  No I do no believe the true church is only Independent Baptist. No doubt there are many in the IB's that are not saved just as in any other denomination. He also has a strange teaching that the guests cannot be the whole church because the "tribulation saints" are not saved yet.   The alternative and better argument on that point is that there can be no tribulation saints because the breakfast has taken place.

[DaveW 4,115]

I have no idea about that link or whoever you are talking about.

I asked a simple question with no implied pointof view.

The passage I referenced speaks of the bride and also speaks of "they which are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb".

It indicates that there is a bride and also another group, those called to the marriage.

My question (with no implied point of view on my part) is: who are these two separate groups, the bride, and those called to the marriage?

[Pastor Scott Markle 2,846]

According to Revelation 21:9-10, "the bride, the Lamb's wife" is equivalent to "that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven."  So then, according to Revelation 21:9-27, who all is included in "that great city, the holy Jerusalem," "the bride, the Lamb's wife"?

Furthermore, Hebrews 12:22-24 also speaks concerning "the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem."  So then, according to Hebrews 12:22-24, who all is included in "the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem"?

[Pastor Scott Markle 2,846]

Also, some other questions for consideration:

1.  How many passages of Scripture directly speak concerning "the marriage supper of the Lamb"?

2.  What is the actual time period for "the marriage supper of the Lamb"?

3.  According to the context of Revelation 19 itself, who all is included as a part of the Lamb's wife (consider comparing verses 7-8 with verse 14)?

[Invicta 1,553]

22 hours ago, DaveW said:

I have no idea about that link or whoever you are talking about.

I asked a simple question with no implied pointof view.

The passage I referenced speaks of the bride and also speaks of "they which are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb".

It indicates that there is a bride and also another group, those called to the marriage.

My question (with no implied point of view on my part) is: who are these two separate groups, the bride, and those called to the marriage?

I do not consider that because they are mentioned separately they are necessarily different.  I think Matt. 22:2-15 would apply here.

[Invicta 1,553]

On 16/07/2016 at 0:17 AM, swathdiver said:

Not so.  The Old Testament Saints and John the Baptist are specifically mentioned as being guests at the wedding and they are true believers in Christ.  

Stick with the Scriptures.

I don't disagree with that but that raises an interesting point.  I believe that current futurist teaching is that the OT saints will be raised after the tribulation.