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On 7/5/2016 at 10:54 PM, Wmccarthy99 said:

Thanks for responding 360 watt, and this gives me a little encouragement to hear that others go through this as well. I definately acknowledged my sin, actually felt sorrowful over it and believed that Jesus Christ could still save me, that's about as far as it went. I only finally made a confession to my mom that I believed in Him probably months later. I believed for a while, but went back to my old ways pretty much immediately

Recently I've realized I never really understood how one becomes saved. I knew you had to place your faith in Christ, but because of ignorance and false teachings I've thought that there was always something added to it like "commit your life to Christ" or "surrender everything to Him". 

There's a couple reasons I believe that Hebrews 6:4-8 is talking about non believers

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.


The main reason being verse 8. I don't believe anyone who has been born again will be rejected, no matter how bad they sin. Also, the quick lesson of Esau in Hebrews 12:17

17: For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.


As to being partakers of the Holy Spirit, isn't King Saul an example of this? He prophesied, and later God took away His Spirit and sent him a spirit of distress. Just my two cents though.

I have heard that Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about someone who falls away in unbelief so badly that they never even want to come back, but I don't find that very convincing. The story of Jacob and Esau fits in so perfectly, the ridiculous trade of his inheritance for a bowl of soup, and later regretting it greatly,but not able to repent.



You are correct, Hebrews 6 is speaking, not of believers going on to maturity, but about Hebrews going on unto Perfection, which is a theme consistent by the Writer of Hebrews and deals with the Completion Christ brought in regards to the Law. For example, remission of sins was under Old Testament Provision under the Law as well as before it. To atone for sins, the death imposed was vicarious through animals. Hebrews 10:1-4 makes it clear that the (Covenant of) Law could not make men "perfect/complete" in regards to remission of sins, because the blood of bulls and goats could not take away sins. Hebrews 10:10-14 makes it clear that those sanctified by the Blood (death) of Christ are not only made perfect, but they are made perfect/complete...for ever.


And that is the Promise of God in the promise of the New Covenant, that "he would remember their sins...no more."


You are also correct in regards to unbelievers, natural men, partaking of the Holy Spirit, because that is the specific ministry He performs in this Age, convicting men of sin, righteousness, and judgment. Think about Judas who was empowered to preach the Kingdom Gospel.


You say...


I have heard that Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about someone who falls away in unbelief so badly that they never even want to come back, but I don't find that very convincing.


...and the issue to consider is that the Writer is trying to convince Hebrew brethren to progress from the First Principles of the Oracles of God (the ABCs found in the Old Testament) and...in that progression there is the demand to leave the Covenant of Law and embrace Christ and the New Covenant. Back up to Chapter Five and see why he cannot expound upon Christ. They are ignorant of the ABCs and need to be taught again, and are infantile in their understanding, and are lazy. In Hebrews 6:1-2 he demands they lay not again that which is foundational (i.e., "faith in God" is no longer acceptable, Faith in Christ is demanded of all men), and vv.4-6 make the simple point one cannot be renewed to repentance if they reject the very method through which repentance is gained (which is by "going on unto perfection.").


How does one "crucify Christ unto themselves again?" The answer is simple if we understand what the Writer is saying to His brethren, it is a return to the Old Testament provision of vicarious sacrifice, and "crucifying Christ pictorially" as all Old Testament sacrifices did. This as opposed to turning in faith to the One Sacrifice that can make one perfect, or, complete...in regards to remission of sins.


I am out of time but just want to say that understanding of this passage and Hebrews 10:26 (which also contrasts the Covenant of Law and the New Covenant) helps us to understand salvation better as a whole. If we understand that salvation is a one-time event in which the sinner is reconciled to God on an eternal basis, and that natural men benefit from the ministry of God in their lives (none of us would be saved if this were not true of natural men, lol), then we do not, as most do (in all groups), try to impose into these texts that in view are Christians.


In view are Jews. And Jews who have not yet "gone on unto perfection."


Understand perfection as taught by the Writer of Hebrews (hence the Holy Ghost), and you will understand the more difficult passages of Scripture which can cause you to question your own salvation. We are all going to sin, and when we do, it is normal for us to wonder if we really are saved. That is a poor way to gauge one's relationship to and with God, and it is made worse when we have not properly understood the warnings in Scripture. As I recently told one fellow, unbelievers seldom question their salvation, just as the insane do not regularly know they are insane, lol. Continuance in the Faith of Christ is a far better evidence of salvation, as well as a proper understanding of Scripture, and so far it seems the Lord is directing your thoughts on perhaps one of several of Scripture's most misunderstood passages. So my advice to you is stay in the Word of GOd and work out your salvation, lol. I believe its there, just still in the process of growth just like the rest of us.


If you like we can look at the fuller context of Hebrews 5:10-6:12, because we are going to misunderstand this passage if we take them out of their context, as most do, particularly those who teach loss of salvation. Hebrews 10:14 is, in my own opinion, the clearest statement of Eternal Salvation in Scripture, bar none. Why It is so is due to the fact of being made perfect (in regards to remission of sins) through Christ.


God bless.






Edited by S.T.Ranger

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