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thank you Jordan, actually I don't like study Bibles for that same reason.. i need it for a Bible study.. maybe I should have said reference Bible instead. I get confused sometimes...

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15 hours ago, Rosie said:

thank you Jordan, actually I don't like study Bibles for that same reason.. i need it for a Bible study.. maybe I should have said reference Bible instead. I get confused sometimes...

Since you are a KJV person Rosie, buy you a bible that has the original references from the original translators. Hendrickson Publishers or Bearing Precious Seed or Local Church Publishers, I believe, print them. Even the 400th Anniversary edition of the KJV has them.

Just remember that there are no where near the amount of references of a modern study Bible, but plenty of notes in it (that don't agree with the common KJVO thoughtline), as well as hundreds of alternate translations of verses in the side columns.

Scofields study is flawed to embarassment, but Thompsons is interesting. Huge amount of references!

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45 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

No use for the Scofiield-any Bible commentary that beings by pushing the Gap Theory can just go downhill from there.

It's true. However the Scofield Bible offers an excellent dispensational viewpoint of the scriptures

Edited by Jordan Kurecki
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Rosie, I think you're pretty well set, as per your earlier post. I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. I agree with those who've recommended the Thompson Chain Reference Bible. It is excellent. I've used one since I was in college (got my first one from my grandparents when I went to college) many moons ago.

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Brother Jordan, 

I  followed your link and strongly disagree with this statement (found on the page)
"Any man who is honest before God will acknowledge that most of his knowledge and understanding is gleaned from other men."

This may be entirely true of WORLDY things... we learn to walk, we learn to talk, we learn to do all worldly things by example.
However, of the BIBLE... we have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us into SPIRITUAL things... 

1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

John 4:23-24
23 "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."
24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

John 14:16-17
16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

1 John 5:6
6 "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth."
7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth..."

Yes we HAVE learned from parents, pastors, fellowship with believers, and possibly various other sources (which is this discussion pertaining to reference Bibles and commentaries).  There comes a point in our walk with the Lord where we SHOULD be able to tell when someone is teaching something contrary to what God's word says. But if we don't know the Bible, if we haven't studied out many things for ourselves. How would we know when someone is leading us down the path of error? So while we certainly can be edified of mankind (pastors, Christian parents, fellowship with believers), we must also recognize they are all human as we are.
Commentaries often carry an agenda along with them (and oftentimes speculation is drawn upon for an answer).

How will you know if the commentary is sound if you don't know what God's word says prior to reading the commentary?
How will you know if the pastor is teaching sound doctrine if you do not know what God's word says prior to hearing the sermon?
How will you know if a fellow brother or sister is telling you the truth in regard to any biblical topic if you haven't studied it out yourself?

Commentaries can be help... fellowship with believers can be help, sitting under sound teaching of a good pastor can be of extreme help. 
BUT (and this is the point I am trying to make) we can't rely fully on what mankind teaches. We CAN rely fully on God's word.
The biggest problem I see in Christian circles today is the lack of reading God's word themselves... instead of being able to find an answer Biblically, oftentimes they will try to find an answer via a commentary. 
Is that answer ALWAYS reliable? No. Is God's word ALWAYS reliable? Yes.

God's word tells us He gave us the Holy Spirit of truth to indwell us and guide us into all truth.
Why would we reject the leading and guiding through His Holy Spirit and instead place MORE trust in mankind?
Why would we allow mankind's opinion and explanation to trump or supersede God's word?

Often times the answers ARE HARD to search out... it takes time and true desire to allow the Lord to lead and guide.
Often times it may take a MONTH of steady study to search out an answer in the Bible.
But one thing I have found over the years is that scripture interprets scripture MUCH BETTER than any man/woman can.

The point I want to convey most strongly is that commentaries CAN be a help... as long as we RECOGNIZE they are written by mankind, and that they are NOT on par with scripture.
NOTHING and NO-ONES opinion supersedes God's word. Much commentary IS opinion.
If a person uses a commentary to help them find correlating scripture or reference in other parts of the Bible, it's a GOOD way to use a commentary.
However, if a person uses a commentary to ANSWER the question they had, without seeking for the answer found elsewhere in scripture first, it's a BAD way (and a very LAZY way) to use a commentary.

Reference (to other parts of scripture) is a great help!!! But I have seen in reference Bibles an agenda there as well. In part because at times it requires mankind's opinion (if it isn't clearly dealing with the exact same topic, yet gives it as a reference... always ask yourself if there IS an agenda there).
Reference Bibles can be a great help to finding other scripture. But reference Bibles with commentary can be dangerous ground.
Reference Bibles with Greek and Hebrew lexicon helps can also be wonderful... but does the lexicon help give ALL the word meanings or only the ONE which the commentator thought applied? If you are going to use a lexicon should you not be able to see all the word uses and then take that in CONTEXT with the scripture yourself to see how best the word would fit in context? So there can even be an agenda in the limited lexicon words given.
I've seen reference Bibles with lexicon helps give OPPOSITE word meanings even. They vary from Bible to Bible. Just be careful there... you are seeking truth not conjecture (and weeding out agendas is something we shouldn't have to be doing while studying God's word).
I hope you see where I am headed with this and why it can be dangerous. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from studying! Quite the opposite.

Maranatha! 

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On 7/6/2016 at 0:56 AM, Ronda said:

Brother Jordan, 

I  followed your link and strongly disagree with this statement (found on the page)
"Any man who is honest before God will acknowledge that most of his knowledge and understanding is gleaned from other men."

This may be entirely true of WORLDY things... we learn to walk, we learn to talk, we learn to do all worldly things by example.
However, of the BIBLE... we have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us into SPIRITUAL things... 

1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

John 4:23-24
23 "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."
24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

John 14:16-17
16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

1 John 5:6
6 "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth."
7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth..."

Yes we HAVE learned from parents, pastors, fellowship with believers, and possibly various other sources (which is this discussion pertaining to reference Bibles and commentaries).  There comes a point in our walk with the Lord where we SHOULD be able to tell when someone is teaching something contrary to what God's word says. But if we don't know the Bible, if we haven't studied out many things for ourselves. How would we know when someone is leading us down the path of error? So while we certainly can be edified of mankind (pastors, Christian parents, fellowship with believers), we must also recognize they are all human as we are.
Commentaries often carry an agenda along with them (and oftentimes speculation is drawn upon for an answer).

How will you know if the commentary is sound if you don't know what God's word says prior to reading the commentary?
How will you know if the pastor is teaching sound doctrine if you do not know what God's word says prior to hearing the sermon?
How will you know if a fellow brother or sister is telling you the truth in regard to any biblical topic if you haven't studied it out yourself?

Commentaries can be help... fellowship with believers can be help, sitting under sound teaching of a good pastor can be of extreme help. 
BUT (and this is the point I am trying to make) we can't rely fully on what mankind teaches. We CAN rely fully on God's word.
The biggest problem I see in Christian circles today is the lack of reading God's word themselves... instead of being able to find an answer Biblically, oftentimes they will try to find an answer via a commentary. 
Is that answer ALWAYS reliable? No. Is God's word ALWAYS reliable? Yes.

God's word tells us He gave us the Holy Spirit of truth to indwell us and guide us into all truth.
Why would we reject the leading and guiding through His Holy Spirit and instead place MORE trust in mankind?
Why would we allow mankind's opinion and explanation to trump or supersede God's word?

Often times the answers ARE HARD to search out... it takes time and true desire to allow the Lord to lead and guide.
Often times it may take a MONTH of steady study to search out an answer in the Bible.
But one thing I have found over the years is that scripture interprets scripture MUCH BETTER than any man/woman can.

The point I want to convey most strongly is that commentaries CAN be a help... as long as we RECOGNIZE they are written by mankind, and that they are NOT on par with scripture.
NOTHING and NO-ONES opinion supersedes God's word. Much commentary IS opinion.
If a person uses a commentary to help them find correlating scripture or reference in other parts of the Bible, it's a GOOD way to use a commentary.
However, if a person uses a commentary to ANSWER the question they had, without seeking for the answer found elsewhere in scripture first, it's a BAD way (and a very LAZY way) to use a commentary.

Reference (to other parts of scripture) is a great help!!! But I have seen in reference Bibles an agenda there as well. In part because at times it requires mankind's opinion (if it isn't clearly dealing with the exact same topic, yet gives it as a reference... always ask yourself if there IS an agenda there).
Reference Bibles can be a great help to finding other scripture. But reference Bibles with commentary can be dangerous ground.
Reference Bibles with Greek and Hebrew lexicon helps can also be wonderful... but does the lexicon help give ALL the word meanings or only the ONE which the commentator thought applied? If you are going to use a lexicon should you not be able to see all the word uses and then take that in CONTEXT with the scripture yourself to see how best the word would fit in context? So there can even be an agenda in the limited lexicon words given.
I've seen reference Bibles with lexicon helps give OPPOSITE word meanings even. They vary from Bible to Bible. Just be careful there... you are seeking truth not conjecture (and weeding out agendas is something we shouldn't have to be doing while studying God's word).
I hope you see where I am headed with this and why it can be dangerous. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from studying! Quite the opposite.

Maranatha! 

Well I disagree with you, Most of what I have learned of the Bible, has come from other Spirit filled men teaching it.

And when did I say commentaries were infallible and inspired or on the same level as the word of God?

I mean obviously there are dangers to commentaries...but here are also dangers with going to church and hearing a Pastor... Yet I suspect you still go to church and listen to a Pastor preach a sermon...

Commentaries are often helpful when they mention similar passages to the one you are studying and they save time. and usually I don't ever stick to one commentator when looking at a specific passage.

I have gleaned so much helpful information over the years with commentaries and lexicons that you are not going to dissuade me. 

Edited by Jordan Kurecki
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On 7/3/2016 at 3:25 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

Personally I think the best study bibles/reference Bibles are:

1. The Key Word Study Bible by AMG

 http://www.christianbook.com/study-bible-kjv-bonded-burgundy-leather/9780899577470/pd/577471?dv=c&en=google&event=SHOP&kw=bibles-40-60%7C577471&p=1179710&gclid=Cj0KEQjw7-K7BRCkkIH3t_WwoskBEiQAD8oY3saNm6gw88r2Bkbec3pxsv2b350KBYQcYLmma3hWpUgaAmx_8P8HAQ

Pros

-Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries

-Sounds dispensational baptistic exegetical notes

-Concordance with meanings of Bible Names

-Greek grammatical codes for NT words

-Great for the more technical and serious Bible student.

Con

-The Notes sometimes criticize the KJV translation's choice of words and translation

2. The Thompson Chain Reference Bible

http://www.christianbook.com/kjv-thompson-reference-size-black-leather/9780887072017/pd/532BK?event=ESRCG

-Really great chain reference system

-also great for the serious Bible student

3. The Defined King James Bible 

http://www.deepershopping.com/item/bible-for-today-inc/defined-king-james-bible-black-genuine-leather-br/3947086.html?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=datafeed&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjw7-K7BRCkkIH3t_WwoskBEiQAD8oY3m4CpTD99HPb8DLp4JAGeJdP3MQb8sNpgsbep7yrRsIaAghl8P8HAQ

-Just the KJV text with uncommon, rare, and archaic words defined in footnotes of every page. 

-Very good bible for someone new to the KJV or a new to Christianity in general

4. Rock of Ages Study Bible

 http://www.roapm.com/store/#!/Bonded-Leather-Bible-5th-Edition-BROWN/p/45188113/category=8846043

-Dispensational, Baptist, Fundamentalist study notes

-Good for new Christians, teaches good doctrine.

5. Scofield Reference Bible

http://www.christianbook.com/scofield-classic-edition-kjv-burgundy-indexed/9780195274615/pd/274615?dv=c&en=google&event=SHOP&kw=bibles-0-20%7C274615&p=1179710&gclid=Cj0KEQjw7-K7BRCkkIH3t_WwoskBEiQAD8oY3prxcq22XPzdpHRoJSMpAS-omCZX3T_idmgSUeODvn0aAtdx8P8HAQ

-Dispensational study notes.

-also good for a new Christians, many helpful notes

 

 

http://www.wayoflife.org/reports/bible_commentaries_and_twittering_swallows.html

Just a small comment on the Key Study Bible (Zodhiates) - they do change words in the KJB text to modern words.

I don't remember the reference, but many years ago, while preaching (on the book of Daniel, I believe), a pastor of mine read a very familiar verse, and it didn't say what it was supposed to.

We checked after the service, and he returned it to the store he just bought it from.

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