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For those serious about Bible Study and Understanding the scriptures I highly recommend this bible for a few reasons:


1. Many words in the text are coded to strongs numbering system.
2. in back of this bible there is an Strongs Dictionary of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek words. 
3. The Original Languages dictionary in the back is an expanded dictionary that includes AMG Complete Word Study definitions.
4. In the NT some of the greek words have a coding that defines the Greek tense and usage for some of the words, in the back of the bible there is a small explanation of the Greek tenses. 
5. You can use this bible and benefit from the Greek and Hebrew without having any training in the original languages.

 

 

 

Edited by Jordan Kurecki

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I for one am weary of study bibles for they contain the words and thinking of man.  Man can be and is often wrong.  A babe in Christ or an untrained/disciplined person could eventually confuse man's words with God's Word and visa versa.

 

I believe that the Lord preserved his Word in the English language with the King James bible and feel no need anymore to refer to the ancient languages, the Holy Spirit being my teacher.  What could I miss out on without knowing the Greek or Hebrew?  Well, I used to look up words with my Strong's Concordance, any other reason?

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20 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

Brother Jordan, any idea why burgundy costs less than black?  

black is probably just more popular. 

Also pay attention to genuine or bonded, genuine leather costs more. 

Edited by Jordan Kurecki

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19 hours ago, swathdiver said:

I for one am weary of study bibles for they contain the words and thinking of man.  Man can be and is often wrong.  A babe in Christ or an untrained/disciplined person could eventually confuse man's words with God's Word and visa versa.

 

I believe that the Lord preserved his Word in the English language with the King James bible and feel no need anymore to refer to the ancient languages, the Holy Spirit being my teacher.  What could I miss out on without knowing the Greek or Hebrew?  Well, I used to look up words with my Strong's Concordance, any other reason?

I use to think more like you in terms of referring only to English when dealing with scriptures.let me give you one illustration of how referring to the original languages can be helpful.

 

1st Samuel 28:6-7 And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

1st Chronicles 10:13-14 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; And enquired not of the Lord: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

These two passages can create quite a a problem if you limit yourself only to English. note here that the Hebrew word translated enquired in 1st samuel 28:6-7, and the Hebrew word translates "enquired" in 1st Chronicles 10:13-14 are two DIFFERENT Hebrew words.

in 1st Samuel the word is  sha'al which means  to inquire; by implication, to request; by extension, to demand.

in 1st Chronicles the word used is darash  which means:   to tread or frequent; usually to follow (for pursuit or search); by implication, to seek or ask; specifically to worship

Basically by looking at the Hebrew you can see that in 1st Samuel that Saul was demanding and seeking God for his own purposes, while in 1st Chronicles God wanted Saul to seek him in order to serve and please him.

Without going to Hebrew this distinction is not nearly as clear. i am convinced that those who attack Greek and Hebrew study are basically trying to make ignorance virtuous. 

 

Edited by Jordan Kurecki

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I would also say that i tend to be weary of study bible's as well, however the reason why I like this particular Bible is because it allows access to Greek and Hebrew definitions, you can use this bible in a grammatical and etymological fashion. I am just simply convinced that this is a great tool.

the study notes do have some issues, but I do not recommend this bible for it's study notes, but rather for it's Greek and Hebrew tools like the text coding and the expanded Greek and Hebrew dictionary in the back. 

Here are some issues I have with the actual study notes.

 The study notes often attempt to "correct" the KJV text by saying such and such should translates such and such way. I ignore these notes. this is the only issue with the study notes that i am currently aware of.

However, the study notes are Dispensational, and I believe from a Pre-Trib point of view.

but like i said, I don't put much stock in the notes of any study Bible.

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I agree there are times it is good to go back and look into the original languages. Clearly, there are no 'original texts' we can reliably look into, else it would be worth it even more. But, since the Hebrew part of scripture is of the Masoretic text and I believe there are some of them, (though I would have to study into that) AND we have texts that are over 2000 years old in the Dead Sea Scrolls, at least we have some things pretty reliable and of certain antiquity into which we might enquire. Of course, being always very careful that it doesn't change what we know. It is good for clarification-but many try to use it to change or question what is clear.

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1 hour ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

i am convinced that those who attack Greek and Hebrew study are basically trying to make ignorance virtuous. 

In my case I think you're right.  My belief is that God preserved His Word in the King James Bible and it is sufficient for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.  Along with the Holy Spirit of course!  Pamphlets/commentaries, concordances and the Greek and Hebrew can also help but are not required.

I do not have a problem with enquire/inquire as used in those passages btw.  I reckon he didn't enquire enough before he pridefully went and asked someone else and that's what got him into trouble.

Now you mention those study notes.  With some movies I compromise by eating the meat and spitting out the bones but it is wrong and I do it anyway.  I don't do it with bibles or commentaries but you are, be careful.  Those notes are as unclean as the scantily clad women on tv, no, probably even more dangerous.  

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1 hour ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

I use to think more like you in terms of referring only to English when dealing with scriptures.let me give you one illustration of how referring to the original languages can be helpful.

 

1st Samuel 28:6-7 And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

1st Chronicles 10:13-14 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; And enquired not of the Lord: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

These two passages can create quite a a problem if you limit yourself only to English. note here that the Hebrew word translated enquired in 1st samuel 28:6-7, and the Hebrew word translates "enquired" in 1st Chronicles 10:13-14 are two DIFFERENT Hebrew words.

in 1st Samuel the word is  sha'al which means  to inquire; by implication, to request; by extension, to demand.

in 1st Chronicles the word used is darash  which means:   to tread or frequent; usually to follow (for pursuit or search); by implication, to seek or ask; specifically to worship

Basically by looking at the Hebrew you can see that in 1st Samuel that Saul was demanding and seeking God for his own purposes, while in 1st Chronicles God wanted Saul to seek him in order to serve and please him.

Without going to Hebrew this distinction is not nearly as clear. i am convinced that those who attack Greek and Hebrew study are basically trying to make ignorance virtuous. 

 

Absolutely clear to me without any Hebrew reference, always has been. The context of the passages clears any English confusion. It will come with mileage.

The more Bible mileage you get under your belt, the closer you will come to full circle on your previous "referring only to the English". Only next time when you abandon the 23 contradictory guessicons being currently published, you will understand the English yourself via the Spirit. 

I will hand it to you though, rarely do I see anyone referencing Hebrew to clear up the OT. It is by enlarge the greek of the NT that satan loves to confuse people with.

 

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2 hours ago, swathdiver said:

 

I do not have a problem with enquire/inquire as used in those passages btw.  I reckon he didn't enquire enough before he pridefully went and asked someone else and that's what got him into trouble.

 

The issue is not that he did enquire enough.. the problem was he was going to God to get help because he was in trouble, he was not going to God because he was repentant. the two different Hebrew words have different meanings. one means basically to seek something from or to demand and the other has more of an idea of worship. 

2 hours ago, wretched said:

 

The more Bible mileage you get under your belt, the closer you will come to full circle on your previous "referring only to the English". Only next time when you abandon the 23 contradictory guessicons being currently published, you will understand the English yourself via the Spirit. 

 

I am sorry but I do not believe we have to restrict ourselves only to the English. The English is not better than the Greek and Hebrew. Not to say that there is anything wrong with our English King James Version.

BTW, we wouldn't even have a King James Version if people took the same position towards Greek and Hebrew that you do. I sure am glad that the KJV translators took the time to study Greek and Hebrew...

Edited by Jordan Kurecki

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2 hours ago, swathdiver said:

for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.  Along with the Holy Spirit of course!  Pamphlets/commentaries, concordances and the Greek and Hebrew can also help but are not required.

 

And neither are Chapter and verse divisions. Though I assume you have a Bible that uses those.

Anyway the purpose for this thread was just to make people aware of a tool that is available. You certainly don't need to delve into Greek or Hebrew to study the Bible, but it definitely sure is helpful. I sure would be interested in hearing a response from someone who does have some skill/study in the original languages.

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1 hour ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

The issue is not that he did enquire enough.. the problem was he was going to God to get help because he was in trouble, he was not going to God because he was repentant. the two different Hebrew words have different meanings. one means basically to seek something from or to demand and the other has more of an idea of worship. 

I am sorry but I do not believe we have to restrict ourselves only to the English. The English is not better than the Greek and Hebrew. Not to say that there is anything wrong with our English King James Version.

BTW, we wouldn't even have a King James Version if people took the same position towards Greek and Hebrew that you do. I sure am glad that the KJV translators took the time to study Greek and Hebrew...

You are missing the point friend. You gamble with guessing when using a modern greek lexicon of any publisher to obtain the meaning of "ancient" greek manuscript translations used by the KJB translators.

That guessicon or excerpts from one you hold in your hand is not and cannot be accurate with any margin of certainty. You are far better off relying only on the Spirit to teach you God's Truth.

These guessicons may have the words right in most cases. What they do not have right and cannot have right is what koine words actually translated to in English or even in modern greek back when originally penned.  

Pick a word, any word and then realize that the definition of that word you are reading in your modern lexicon could have very well changed 4 times since originally penned. That is an extreme example of course but please understand the point I am making. You are wasting your time with the greek.

Modern greek will never give you any better understanding of the Word than the Spirit will. Sure it may make you sound smarter to babes and whatnot but it will not to anyone who knows better, quite the opposite really. Not to mention the pathetic displays given by men who correct the English with a greek GUESS. How sadly vain and/or misguided are those men.

God passed the Word on to English with the TR, why waste time fooling with guesses?

 

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2 hours ago, wretched said:

You are missing the point friend. You gamble with guessing when using a modern greek lexicon of any publisher to obtain the meaning of "ancient" greek manuscript translations used by the KJB translators.

That guessicon or excerpts from one you hold in your hand is not and cannot be accurate with any margin of certainty. You are far better off relying only on the Spirit to teach you God's Truth.

These guessicons may have the words right in most cases. What they do not have right and cannot have right is what koine words actually translated to in English or even in modern greek back when originally penned.  

Pick a word, any word and then realize that the definition of that word you are reading in your modern lexicon could have very well changed 4 times since originally penned. That is an extreme example of course but please understand the point I am making. You are wasting your time with the greek.

Modern greek will never give you any better understanding of the Word than the Spirit will. Sure it may make you sound smarter to babes and whatnot but it will not to anyone who knows better, quite the opposite really. Not to mention the pathetic displays given by men who correct the English with a greek GUESS. How sadly vain and/or misguided are those men.

God passed the Word on to English with the TR, why waste time fooling with guesses?

 

So when you don't know the definition of an English word what you do? just hope the Spirit magically tells you what the word means? or do you look it up an a Webster's 1828 dictionary? Wretched please do tell me how you learned what the word "quicken" means? Did the Spirit just lead you?

 

BTW, I don't know why you mentioned modern greek, you and I both know that the N.T. is written in Koine Greek.

Edited by Jordan Kurecki

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Also there are many people who use Greek and Hebrew for their own usage without using it to correct the KJV. it is unfair for you to paint all students of Greek and Hebrew with that same brush. In fact I find it misleading. 

Wretched and Swathdiver can both claim Greek and Hebrew is not profitable to refer to study, but I already gave an example of where looking into the Hebrew can clear up and help with understanding. I have proved my premise with an example, all they have simply done is claimed over and over again that it is not helpful. 

the proof of the profit of Greek and Hebrew study is right there for all to see. I could give other examples where Greek and Hebrew word studies help with Bible interpretation and study. Just a simple study on Greek words behind word "love" in John 21 yields sheds light on the scriptures.

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1 hour ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

So when you don't know the definition of an English word what you do? just hope the Spirit magically tells you what the word means? or do you look it up an a Webster's 1828 dictionary? Wretched please do tell me how you learned what the word "quicken" means? Did the Spirit just lead you?

 

BTW, I don't know why you mentioned modern greek, you and I both know that the N.T. is written in Koine Greek.

Well, the context of quicken gave the clue and the Spirit did the rest :)

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4 minutes ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

so have you ever looked up a word from the bible in an English dictionary?

Never once that I can remember but I have been saved quite a while.

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10 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Well, I now find myself in the place of a difficulty.  Brother Kurecki, a personal friend of mine, has requested that I might engage in the discussion of this thread.  However, throughout my few years as a member of the forum, I have carefully chosen to avoid a heated engagement over the matter of referencing the Holy Spirit inspired and preserved Greek and Hebrew.  On various occasions I have made it clear that I am quite willing to engage in a consideration of that Holy Spirit inspired and preserved Greek and Hebrew when another member chooses that path of discussion.  However, I have carefully sought not to engage in a heated discussion over the matter.  Furthermore, when I am requested by another member to discuss a Biblical issue without any reference unto the Greek or Hebrew, or when I am dealing with an individual whom I have become aware is quite adverse to any reference unto the Greek or Hebrew, I seek to discuss the Biblical issue under discussion strictly through a precise and thorough handling of the English grammar and context (although I have found that many do not much care for this approach either). 

Now then, with all of that preface, I will simply state at this point in this discussion -- I myself stand in agreement with Brother Kurecki that referencing the Holy Spirit inspired and preserved Greek and Hebrew can be quite helpful in Bible study.  However, I will also acknowledge that an understanding and reference unto the Greek or Hebrew is not at all a necessity for sound Bible study, since a precise and thorough handling of the English grammar and context (under the guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit) is very sufficient.

Finally, if an individual desires to confront my position, I am willing to defend it more forcefully (as, I dare to say, most are likely already to know about me).

Well, I will say this and hope you can agree: Satan rarely if ever attacks the Hebrew vs English but we all who have been around awhile can attest to the continuous correction of the English with "Greek scholars". We don't have to wonder why satan would attack the NT so in these last days.

What were the words of Billy Graham so many times: "this was a bad translation from the Greek"

I reckon as long as noone attempts to correct the English with greek guesses I don't mind it as much.

What do you think Bro Scott?

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1 hour ago, HappyChristian said:

It grates both mine and my hubby's nerves when we hear someone say something like "this was a bad translation" or "the translators should have said thus and so."  In our opinions, the translators were much better educated and acquainted with the ancient languages than anyone living today. Based on the academic plane alone, we are both of the belief that it is arrogant to the max for modern correcters to claim that they can translate better.

Based on the spiritual plane, we believe that God preserved His Word via the translators, giving us the primo translation for English speaking peoples.  And that it is spiritually arrogant for self-described theologians or preachers who think they've studied so well to correct God's Word.

BTW - we've heard folks correct from both languages. Arrogance knows no language limitation. 

Sums up my thoughts.

Alan

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I think probably much of the aversion to Greek and Hebrew is a knee jerk reaction to those who try to correct the English KJV by referring to one of the critical Greek texts. 

I don't think Hebrew and Greek definitions should ever be used to undermine anyone's confidence in our accurate King James Bible. Those who do so i believe are proud and arrogant as been said by other posts. but there is a big difference between correcting with the Greek or Hebrew and using it to shed more light on the English translation and understanding

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Reading from great preachers of past centuries most consulted the Greek and Hebrew, doing so with the intent of better understanding why a particular English word was used or how to better understand the meaning.

As most know, in the modern era it seems most consult the Greek and Hebrew with the intent of trying to find a way to make a portion of Scripture say something more to their liking. Thus we get those annoying preachers who love to say the KJ translators did it wrong, but they know the right word that should be used. That and those study Bible notes which say something to the effect of "a better translation would be _____."

The prevalence of those seeking to change the meaning of the KJB has cast a dark shadow even upon those seeking to do as previous generations did in seeking a clearer understanding of the KJB, not a different understanding.

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