Members Jordan Kurecki Posted May 17, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just now, wretched said: Well, the context of quicken gave the clue and the Spirit did the rest so have you ever looked up a word from the bible in an English dictionary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wretched Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Jordan Kurecki said: so have you ever looked up a word from the bible in an English dictionary? Never once that I can remember but I have been saved quite a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted May 17, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just now, wretched said: Never once that I can remember but I have been saved quite a while. I have a hard time believing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Popular Post Pastor Scott Markle Posted May 17, 2016 Members Popular Post Share Posted May 17, 2016 Well, I now find myself in the place of a difficulty. Brother Kurecki, a personal friend of mine, has requested that I might engage in the discussion of this thread. However, throughout my few years as a member of the forum, I have carefully chosen to avoid a heated engagement over the matter of referencing the Holy Spirit inspired and preserved Greek and Hebrew. On various occasions I have made it clear that I am quite willing to engage in a consideration of that Holy Spirit inspired and preserved Greek and Hebrew when another member chooses that path of discussion. However, I have carefully sought not to engage in a heated discussion over the matter. Furthermore, when I am requested by another member to discuss a Biblical issue without any reference unto the Greek or Hebrew, or when I am dealing with an individual whom I have become aware is quite adverse to any reference unto the Greek or Hebrew, I seek to discuss the Biblical issue under discussion strictly through a precise and thorough handling of the English grammar and context (although I have found that many do not much care for this approach either). Now then, with all of that preface, I will simply state at this point in this discussion -- I myself stand in agreement with Brother Kurecki that referencing the Holy Spirit inspired and preserved Greek and Hebrew can be quite helpful in Bible study. However, I will also acknowledge that an understanding and reference unto the Greek or Hebrew is not at all a necessity for sound Bible study, since a precise and thorough handling of the English grammar and context (under the guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit) is very sufficient. Finally, if an individual desires to confront my position, I am willing to defend it more forcefully (as, I dare to say, most are likely already to know about me). HappyChristian, Alan, eswarden and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wretched Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 16 minutes ago, Jordan Kurecki said: I have a hard time believing that. Thats fine with me Jordan and you can have it your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wretched Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 10 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Well, I now find myself in the place of a difficulty. Brother Kurecki, a personal friend of mine, has requested that I might engage in the discussion of this thread. However, throughout my few years as a member of the forum, I have carefully chosen to avoid a heated engagement over the matter of referencing the Holy Spirit inspired and preserved Greek and Hebrew. On various occasions I have made it clear that I am quite willing to engage in a consideration of that Holy Spirit inspired and preserved Greek and Hebrew when another member chooses that path of discussion. However, I have carefully sought not to engage in a heated discussion over the matter. Furthermore, when I am requested by another member to discuss a Biblical issue without any reference unto the Greek or Hebrew, or when I am dealing with an individual whom I have become aware is quite adverse to any reference unto the Greek or Hebrew, I seek to discuss the Biblical issue under discussion strictly through a precise and thorough handling of the English grammar and context (although I have found that many do not much care for this approach either). Now then, with all of that preface, I will simply state at this point in this discussion -- I myself stand in agreement with Brother Kurecki that referencing the Holy Spirit inspired and preserved Greek and Hebrew can be quite helpful in Bible study. However, I will also acknowledge that an understanding and reference unto the Greek or Hebrew is not at all a necessity for sound Bible study, since a precise and thorough handling of the English grammar and context (under the guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit) is very sufficient. Finally, if an individual desires to confront my position, I am willing to defend it more forcefully (as, I dare to say, most are likely already to know about me). Well, I will say this and hope you can agree: Satan rarely if ever attacks the Hebrew vs English but we all who have been around awhile can attest to the continuous correction of the English with "Greek scholars". We don't have to wonder why satan would attack the NT so in these last days. What were the words of Billy Graham so many times: "this was a bad translation from the Greek" I reckon as long as noone attempts to correct the English with greek guesses I don't mind it as much. What do you think Bro Scott? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Popular Post HappyChristian Posted May 17, 2016 Administrators Popular Post Share Posted May 17, 2016 I have to agree with Jordan and Bro. Scott. Wretched, I know you specifically addressed Bro. Scott, but I thought I'd just mention something. It grates both mine and my hubby's nerves when we hear someone say something like "this was a bad translation" or "the translators should have said thus and so."  In our opinions, the translators were much better educated and acquainted with the ancient languages than anyone living today. Based on the academic plane alone, we are both of the belief that it is arrogant to the max for modern correcters to claim that they can translate better. Based on the spiritual plane, we believe that God preserved His Word via the translators, giving us the primo translation for English speaking peoples.  And that it is spiritually arrogant for self-described theologians or preachers who think they've studied so well to correct God's Word. We do not, however, think it is a problem to look at the Greek or Hebrew definition of a word. Let's look at a word that is familiar to all of us.  The word conversation. We all know in the KJB, the word means lifestyle. But where did we learn that? We were told that's what it meant. Because of the Greek from which it came. The dictionary defines it as speech. Even the middle english (which in-depth dictionaries will show) doesn't define it as lifestyle. It comes close, because it means "living among." And so we look at the Greek. There is no sin in defining a word. Now, let me add to that, that if someone is truly convinced of the Holy Spirit that that someone would be sinning to look into the Hebrew or Greek, then by all means do not do so!  But it's a fine line to tread to tell someone else they are wrong doing so. Again, it is very wrong, though, to say that something would be better translated as something else. I hope you don't mind that I put in my two cents, wretched, since you addressed Bro. Scott. And I hope this makes sense. It's something my hubs and I have been discussing of late, because we've had to hear some messages recently where the speaker has done this. Makes us pretty unhappy... BTW - we've heard folks correct from both languages. Arrogance knows no language limitation. Jordan Kurecki, John Young, busdrvrlinda54 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 hour ago, HappyChristian said: It grates both mine and my hubby's nerves when we hear someone say something like "this was a bad translation" or "the translators should have said thus and so."  In our opinions, the translators were much better educated and acquainted with the ancient languages than anyone living today. Based on the academic plane alone, we are both of the belief that it is arrogant to the max for modern correcters to claim that they can translate better. Based on the spiritual plane, we believe that God preserved His Word via the translators, giving us the primo translation for English speaking peoples.  And that it is spiritually arrogant for self-described theologians or preachers who think they've studied so well to correct God's Word. BTW - we've heard folks correct from both languages. Arrogance knows no language limitation. Sums up my thoughts. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted May 17, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 I think probably much of the aversion to Greek and Hebrew is a knee jerk reaction to those who try to correct the English KJV by referring to one of the critical Greek texts. I don't think Hebrew and Greek definitions should ever be used to undermine anyone's confidence in our accurate King James Bible. Those who do so i believe are proud and arrogant as been said by other posts. but there is a big difference between correcting with the Greek or Hebrew and using it to shed more light on the English translation and understanding Pastor Scott Markle, John Young, HappyChristian and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted May 18, 2016 Members Share Posted May 18, 2016 Reading from great preachers of past centuries most consulted the Greek and Hebrew, doing so with the intent of better understanding why a particular English word was used or how to better understand the meaning. As most know, in the modern era it seems most consult the Greek and Hebrew with the intent of trying to find a way to make a portion of Scripture say something more to their liking. Thus we get those annoying preachers who love to say the KJ translators did it wrong, but they know the right word that should be used. That and those study Bible notes which say something to the effect of "a better translation would be _____." The prevalence of those seeking to change the meaning of the KJB has cast a dark shadow even upon those seeking to do as previous generations did in seeking a clearer understanding of the KJB, not a different understanding. Pastor Scott Markle, HappyChristian, John Young and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted May 18, 2016 Members Share Posted May 18, 2016 1 hour ago, John81 said: As most know, in the modern era it seems most consult the Greek and Hebrew with the intent of trying to find a way to make a portion of Scripture say something more to their liking. Thus we get those annoying preachers who love to say the KJ translators did it wrong, but they know the right word that should be used. That and those study Bible notes which say something to the effect of "a better translation would be _____." John81 hit the nail on the head. Good post! Right after I was saved this going to the Greek to change the meaning of the verse in the King James Version disheartened me and to this day I have no real respect to those who try and change the obvious meaning of a verse in the KIng James with the Greek. In fact, once a person goes to the Greek to change the meaning in the English I do not consider that individual walking in the Spirit. And, a lot of them are false teachers in my estimation. Alan HappyChristian and John Young 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MountainChristian Posted May 19, 2016 Members Share Posted May 19, 2016 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Has our knowledge of God's word increased? In the Holy Bible knowledge is spiritual. Because Daniel wrote "time of the end" many people have turned knowledge into carnal things, airplanes, cars, smart phones, etc. and excluded the spiritual. For example: Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill. & Deuteronomy 5:17 Thou shalt not kill. vs Thou shalt not murder? I hear that one a lot.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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