Responding to monergists/calvinists

[MikeWatson1]

Okay, now I know there will be calvinists and monergists posting in this forum of course.. but I also know the statement of faith of this website REJECTS calvinism.. so 

What do you type/say to calvnists or monergists who say eternal salvation is not called for? 

Their argument is strong in that men are depraved sinners.. and how can a sinner even call for salvation?

My response is that the call on the part of the sinner.. comes out of conviction from the Holy Spirit.. so it's the Holy Spirit changing the person's heart..  but I believe the free will a person has can resist that conviction.  So they 'call' for salvation as in assent to the conviction.. 'change of mind, heart'..

I believe the sinner's prayer is valid.  It's a response out of conviction to be saved.. be rescued from sin.

Of course.. it's not a commitment to to turn from sin for the rest of your life.  Then that would be salvation coming from the person.  But I do believe it is a call. A cry out for salvation.

This isn't arminianism.  I also believe eternal salvation once given, can't be rejected or undone. 

Anyway, for those who do reject calvinism or monergism or both..what do you say to people who speak of sovereign grace and the inability of a depraved sinner to even call for salvation?

 

[Ukulelemike]

I say, "Is God sovereign enough to allow His creation the ability to choose? Or does this somehow take away from His sovereignty?" 

Clearly we are TOLD to believe. Clearly man is responsible to God to believe, to put their faith upon Jesus Christ, or maybe, to receive the faith. I believe God gives EVERYONE faith to believe, but most reject that faith. Even the faith if a gift of God, but a gift, be it faith or grace or salvation, all gifts, are not of compulsion, not forced. The very character of a 'gift' is something that can be freely received or refused. Calvinism/Reformed say those given the gift have no choice-it is set, their destiny, and in fact, they HAVE it before they receive it, or something like that. Like you have to be regenerated already before you can ask in faith. That isn't a gift, it is a forced compulsion about which one has no choice-there is not even a receiving, just a having.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

John 6:44-45 -- "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.  It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.  Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh to me."

1.  No lost sinner, not even one, has the ability in and of him or her self to come unto the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior apart from the drawing work of God the Father.

2.  Those lost sinners who are experiencing the drawing work of God the Father have the ability to come unto the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior, specifically granted through the gracious drawing work of God the Father.

3.  Since a lost sinner only has the ability to come unto the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior through the gracious drawing work of God the Father, that lost sinner only has the ability to come at those specific times wherein he or she is experiencing the drawing work of God the Father, and only as long as he or she continues to experience the drawing work of God the Father.

4.  God the Father engages in His drawing work upon the hearts of all lost sinners ("And they shall be all taught of God"), although He may choose not to do so continually, and although He may also choose to cease that work of drawing at some point in a lost sinner's life.

5.  Those lost sinners who actually do come unto the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior are those who both (1) have experienced the drawing work of God the Father ("Every man therefore that hath heard") and (2) have responded aright unto that drawing work by learning that which God the Father is seeking to teach through His work of drawing ("And hath learned of the Father"). 

6.  Although all lost sinners experience the drawing work of God the Father, some resist that drawing work and thereby refuse to learn that which God the Father is seeking to teach through His work of drawing; therefore, such lost sinners, by their own willful rebellion against the drawing work of God the Father, do not come unto the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

7.  All lost sinners who actually do come unto the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior shall be raised up at the last day by the power of Jesus Christ the Savior.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Pastor Scott Markle
corrected a Scriptural misquote by type-error

[MikeWatson1]

43 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

I say, "Is God sovereign enough to allow His creation the ability to choose? Or does this somehow take away from His sovereignty?" 

Clearly we are TOLD to believe. Clearly man is responsible to God to believe, to put their faith upon Jesus Christ, or maybe, to receive the faith. I believe God gives EVERYONE faith to believe, but most reject that faith. Even the faith if a gift of God, but a gift, be it faith or grace or salvation, all gifts, are not of compulsion, not forced. The very character of a 'gift' is something that can be freely received or refused. Calvinism/Reformed say those given the gift have no choice-it is set, their destiny, and in fact, they HAVE it before they receive it, or something like that. Like you have to be regenerated already before you can ask in faith. That isn't a gift, it is a forced compulsion about which one has no choice-there is not even a receiving, just a having.

Yes, most calvinists or monergists would have regeneration before belief.  I don't see how that holds up in scripture.

[MikeWatson1]

(Acts 16:29-31)  Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

(John 3:15-16) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 
 

(Ephesians 1:13)  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 

(Romans 10:9)  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 

 

Here is belief before regeneration.

Of course, drawn..convicted first