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What is the difference between the fundamentalists and the evangelicals of today. My understanding of evangelicals were those who compromised with the Catholic church and liberal christians, like Bill Graham and were not willing to separate over Gospel related issues? Could someone explain what evangelicalism of today stands for? What exactly is it that fundamentalists stand for today, as we mostly have our circles, they have theirs and really no interaction between the groups anymore?

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2 hours ago, JordanHaskins said:

What is the difference between the fundamentalists and the evangelicals of today. My understanding of evangelicals were those who compromised with the Catholic church and liberal christians, like Bill Graham and were not willing to separate over Gospel related issues? Could someone explain what evangelicalism of today stands for? What exactly is it that fundamentalists stand for today, as we mostly have our circles, they have theirs and really no interaction between the groups anymore?

Simply put: fundamental believers refuse to deny clear cut instructions, guidance and commands for born again believers in the Bible. It is quite impossible for them since they are indwelt by the Spirit of Truth.

The others claim salvation by Grace but show no evidence of true saving faith in that they reject or deny those clear cut instructions, guidance and commands for born again believers.

In short the evangelicals cannot be regenerated or indwelt by the Spirit. If they were, they would have no trouble at all in believing, acknowledging and striving to live according to God's Word. They found religion (christian in terminology) no doubt but are lost all the same and need to be preached to about condemnation and hell and not about some man made social or prosperity gospel that exists nowhere in God's Word.

Think about it

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1 hour ago, wretched said:

Simply put: fundamental believers refuse to deny clear cut instructions, guidance and commands for born again believers in the Bible. It is quite impossible for them since they are indwelt by the Spirit of Truth.

The others claim salvation by Grace but show no evidence of true saving faith in that they reject or deny those clear cut instructions, guidance and commands for born again believers.

In short the evangelicals cannot be regenerated or indwelt by the Spirit. If they were, they would have no trouble at all in believing, acknowledging and striving to live according to God's Word. They found religion (christian in terminology) no doubt but are lost all the same and need to be preached to about condemnation and hell and not about some man made social or prosperity gospel that exists nowhere in God's Word.

Think about it

Consider the church at Corinth or some of those in Revelation. They weren't doing so well yet they were acknowledged as being born again believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

We all mature at different rates. The Lord works on each of us in different areas at different times. How many commands from Scripture we keep well, or how well we keep those we are aware of and want to follow, doesn't indicate whether we are saved or not.

Those things may indicate our maturity level, or the current state of our understanding, or what the Lord is working on in our lives, but they don't indicate salvation or lack thereof.

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1 hour ago, John81 said:

Consider the church at Corinth or some of those in Revelation. They weren't doing so well yet they were acknowledged as being born again believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

We all mature at different rates. The Lord works on each of us in different areas at different times. How many commands from Scripture we keep well, or how well we keep those we are aware of and want to follow, doesn't indicate whether we are saved or not.

Those things may indicate our maturity level, or the current state of our understanding, or what the Lord is working on in our lives, but they don't indicate salvation or lack thereof.

Understood John. But please understand also that I am not mentioning growth or sin. I am mentioning denying and rejecting God's Word.

That is the issue and difference between the two groups

 

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Back as recently as the 1940's, evangelicals basically were pretty close to Fundamentalists-they were certainly hated by others as IFB's are today. But around 1948 a new program began, coined 'New Evangelicalism" by Harold Ockenga. This new idea that underlay the movement was 'Do not separate, infiltrate'.  Whereas the Bible clearly teaches that we are to separate from worldliness in our churches and in our lives, in dress, in words, in deed, in all of life, to be different, hence holy, this new plan was to look like the world, act like the world and sound like the world, in order to reach the world. Once the bait was taken, and the Spirit of God was present to work on that person, then the work began to lift them out of their worldly ways and into a new life for Christ.

Unfortunately what they didn't realize, is that, what person is saved TO, is what that person will remain. So in a short time, the music and styles and such that were meant merely to DRAW, became the norm, the place the believers remained. So the worldly music, instead of being a lure, became the daily food. Still today I hear people say, "But the lost won't be drawn by old, moldy hymns-we need to reach them where they are!" So they play rock music to 'get' them. Except, its the same thing they are ALL listening to-I guess they're all still just dangling on that hook themselves.  And as was mentioned, this is the route Billy Graham turned, and he lost his discernment in the Judge Not movement.  

 

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I have heard this summary of how this apostate "church" movement got started many times over the years. Satan authored infiltration from the beginning, not Harold or Billy.

Greed and pride is what turned men like graham, I have no sympathy for them and I believe they knew exactly what they were doing, others like falwell too.

That is how it always works friends. This is not rocket surgery or some unsolvable riddle. The plain fact of the matter is this:

It is not possible for one to be born again without heart belief that the Bible comes from God and has the authority of truth. After all, only the Scripture through the Spirit can regenerate. The more Scripture they hear the more they believe under the conviction of the Spirit the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God and without faith IN THE GOD OF THE BIBLE it is impossible to please God.

So, how can it be that these people now allegedly born of the Spirit by placing their faith in the Gospel of the Bible, suddenly no longer believe the Bible comes from God and has the authority of truth? IMPOSSIBLE

The truth of the matter is that these groups are lead by apostate, antichrists and do not get their knowledge of God and His Gospel from the Scripture so why would they acknowledge, accept and believe anything after salvation as instructed in the Bible. Theirs is a made up perversion of the Gospel centered around self and the flesh. Their "gospel" is about a better life physically on earth, more money, better "stuff", better job, better quality of life. That is all their prayers ever are in these buildings or out. "Start your relationship with Jesus today and reap the benefits of a better life". ALL preach this false gospel from the pope to graham to warren to olsteen to the 700 clubbers. The only evangelizing these people do is marketing catchy gimmicks to the masses of religious lost. It is not the Gospel of salvation from eternal condemnation to life everlasting.

Any gospel message without the fear of the Lord, condemnation and hell is a false gospel that produces millions and millions of false "Christians" who will be burned in the fire.

This is not about walking in the flesh and committing fornication as a born again believer.... This is about rejecting the truth of God's Word that fornication is sin, ETC.

Even the most fledgling babe in Christ will accept and acknowledge things like this and will feel convicted the more they hear about them. IOW: newborns may not like to hear of such things at first: like fornication is sin and women are not to speak in church or men should not have long hair or that we should separate from all worldly things but they will not reject these things as false or dated like the apostates do.

I for one refuse to pretend these "christians" are my brethren at all. I do them no favors as such.

I recommend what all true believers should do is preach the real Gospel to them with prayer and patience.

 

 

 

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Of course I agree the error far pre-dates the New Evangelical movement-that just happens to be sort of the latest NEW thing that helped bring us where we are in the modernism and contemporary churches seeking as much as possible to look like the world. And that they used to be much more fundamental, so it has leaked over into fundamentalism.  Many IFB's I know still believe Graham can't do any wrong, even when faced with his blatant disregard for separation, willingness to share a stage with the Pope, unwillingness to condemns clearly false cults like Mormonism and Catholicism, yet they still want to believe he's basically a good guy. So the effects creep in. But yes, of course Satan was introducing error since he first twisted God's words to Adam in the garden of Eden.

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The blurring of lines between Fundamentals and Evangelicals is a problem in all this. As we've discussed before, IFB no longer means what it did just a few decades ago. An IFB church today may be little (if any) different than some evangelical churches. Which, also points out that some of the more "conservative" evangelical churches aren't much (if any) different than some IFB churches.

As we've also discussed, some IFB churches have gone the route of the Pharisees and added dozens or scores of rules they demand be kept in order to have an appearance of sticking to some biblical command, instruction or even something that might only be implied.

I know of an IFB church which has such a strict dress code (and it's written as a fundamental of the faith there) that if someone enters their church not dressed exactly according to their dress code, ushers/deacons descend upon them. They must then put on an article of clothing to make them acceptable or wear an all-covering robe. If not, they are escorted out the door.

This would seem to violate Scripture in several areas. (To be clear, I'm not talking about a woman entering the church in a very skimpy outfit or a guy in cut-off shorts, torn tank top and flip-flops; generally dressed modestly and decently, but not in accord with the specific suit and dress standards the church has set)

At the other end of the spectrum there are the liberal evangelical churches which allow members to dress inappropriately, let alone visitors.

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We have visited a church while on holiday that insists on women wearing head coverings and for visitors not having a hat, there were a number of scarves in the entrance which they were asked to wear.  Not all Evangelicals are New Evangelicals.  Our church is a conservative Evangelical and we separate from all liberal and ecumenical churches, unlike most Baptist churches.  

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2 hours ago, Invicta said:

We have visited a church while on holiday that insists on women wearing head coverings and for visitors not having a hat, there were a number of scarves in the entrance which they were asked to wear.  Not all Evangelicals are New Evangelicals.  Our church is a conservative Evangelical and we separate from all liberal and ecumenical churches, unlike most Baptist churches.  

I'm not sure how they label the various forms of Christians in England these days, but over here It's quite a mess. Here even IFBs are lumped in the category of evangelicals. To make matters even worse, the term Fundamentalist (which is obviously in IFB) is used to include not only IFBs, but any church even remotely conservative, along with the cultish sorts like Westboro Baptists, and some even want to fit certain Mormons in this category.

There are a couple churches around here that require head coverings for women, and they provide them if they don't have one. They also have suit jackets available if a man would happen to show up not wearing one.

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