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Understanding God’s judgement


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I just got through with my latest study of Jeremiah and now I am about half way through Lamentations;  And I just can’t get the picture of Lamentations 2:5-9, out of my mind.

The result of the LORD’S anger, was completely unexpected by the Jews, in the way that He totally decimated their religious worship!

Then I remembered, that "judgment must begin at the house of God"(1 Peter 4:17), and realized that this judgement is going to be "something that we don't expect"!  Just like it was with God’s people in the Old Testament.

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From our perspective, this judgement is already happening, with openly homosexual pastors and the way that "Bible believing churches" are getting harder and harder to find, etc. etc.

By the way, homosexual pastors is just the tip of the iceberg, of the unbelief and the damnable heresies(2 Peter 2:1), that we are now seeing, in all quarters of the local Church.  I am surprised every day, with unbelievable error and wickedness, that I am seeing “within the Church”!  It breaks my heart, to see God’s people turning from the Lord and His Word, in the way that I am seeing.
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I believe that our response to this, should be the same as Jeremiah’s: We should continue to preach the truth and obey the Lord, regardless of the ramifications!

 

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3 minutes ago, Donald said:

I believe that our response to this, should be the same as Jeremiah’s: We should continue to preach the truth and obey the Lord, regardless of the ramifications!

I agree here 100%

But I have to say that to try to place ourselves under the same rules as Israel would be an error. God made separate promises to Israel... some conditional and some unconditional. Many were fulfilled, many more are yet to be fulfilled to and for Israel.  God has made separate promises to those of us in the age of grace. 1 Thes. 5:9 tells us we are not appointed to wrath. 1 Thes. 1:10 tells us we are delivered from the wrath to come.

I have no doubt that God's judgment & wrath will soon fall upon this unbelieving nation (as well as the entire unbelieving world). He has given them over to a reprobate mind. But not so, for those of us who have believed upon and trusted in Christ alone for salvation. We are promised we will suffer tribulation stemming from mankind's persecution. But we are not appointed to God's wrath. 2 very separate things. 

The UN had a meeting on April 22... the world's nations signed a treaty in regard to the false "climate change" agenda. This false agenda has nothing to do with the climate nor the "good" of mankind or the earth, it has everything to do with giving up national sovereignty, and handing over control to global elitists. This world is headed for a global governance. Just as prophecy foretold. What's more troubling about that meeting is that they are now drafting up a new resolution which they intend to "vote" in on May 30th. The treaty (covenant) would force Israel to give up the Golan, Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria (falsely called the "west bank"). The wording was that they are supposedly doing this for "peace and safety".  If this isn't troubling... read Daniel 9:27, 1 Thes. 5:3, and various prophecy regarding the parting of God's land, and specifically in regard to Jerusalem. 

I also take note of the prophetic conditions that no nation will stand with Israel. We currently have those conditions in play with an antisemetic (sadly) president. What happens should a republican president get voted in come November? We would then have a president who stands with Israel (and rightly so), so the window of opportunity closes for 4 years? I don't see things slowing down for that long... the push for global governance, the coming economic collapse of monetary systems which paves the way for one world currency and the mark of the beast,  the situation over the Golan and the recent oil discovery (possibly the "hooks in the jaw" of Ezekiel 38) and I don't think it's merely coincidental that Russia and Iran are right outside Israel's borders... so many things that would have to be "put on hold" that I don't think will be.  

Should God decide to "judge America" for abortion, gay marriage, and all the other atrocities committed against Him, would it make sense that He would target Christians? No... mankind targets and persecute Christians. God's judgment and wrath will come upon an evil and unbelieving world. And it will come after we have been raptured. I trust the Lord's promises in 1 Thes. 5:9 and 1 Thes. 1:10. Maranatha!

 

 

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Hello Ronda and thanks for your response

I fully understand and agree, that Israel has received different promises and expectations from the LORD, than the Church.

But the what I am talking about God and how He is the same, yesterday today and forever.  And one of the “constants” with the LORD, is the way He deals with sin.

And that He deals with the sin of His people, in a different way, than He deals with the world’s sin.  Sure enough “God hates sin”, but He hates it more in “His people”, than He does the world.
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The “proposal”, that I am talking about in is thread is about God’s “earthly judgement” upon His people and how similar it is, in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.

In the Old Testament, most of God’s people did not even know that they were experiencing God’s judgement, when it was right on top of them.  And it could be, that God’s Judgement has(is), already resting on God’s people today and we don’t realize it.  
I had expected Gods Judgement to come in the form of “persecution”, but what I believe is happening is this His judgement is coming in the form of a growing apostasy that seems to be swallowing up more and more Churches every day.

One of these days(maybe today), we will look around and find that 90% of IBF Churches, have gotten completely away from God and His Word.  I am finding more and more men(people), who call themselves “conservative pastors” who don’t believe nor preach God’s Word.  What I am saying in this thread, is that THIS COULD BE GOD’S JUDGEMENT upon the last day Church.

 

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1 hour ago, Donald said:

Hello Ronda and thanks for your response

I fully understand and agree, that Israel has received different promises and expectations from the LORD, than the Church.

But the what I am talking about God and how He is the same, yesterday today and forever.  And one of the “constants” with the LORD, is the way He deals with sin.

And that He deals with the sin of His people, in a different way, than He deals with the world’s sin.  Sure enough “God hates sin”, but He hates it more in “His people”, than He does the world.
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The “proposal”, that I am talking about in is thread is about God’s “earthly judgement” upon His people and how similar it is, in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.

In the Old Testament, most of God’s people did not even know that they were experiencing God’s judgement, when it was right on top of them.  And it could be, that God’s Judgement has(is), already resting on God’s people today and we don’t realize it.  
I had expected Gods Judgement to come in the form of “persecution”, but what I believe is happening is this His judgement is coming in the form of a growing apostasy that seems to be swallowing up more and more Churches every day.

One of these days(maybe today), we will look around and find that 90% of IBF Churches, have gotten completely away from God and His Word.  I am finding more and more men(people), who call themselves “conservative pastors” who don’t believe nor preach God’s Word.  What I am saying in this thread, is that THIS COULD BE GOD’S JUDGEMENT upon the last day Church.

 

Interesting theories but I have a couple of issues

I will contend that the consequences of sin for the NT believers is in no way the same as for OT Israel.

In the OT, those that believed God and were counted righteous certainly knew when He judged Israel.

For us in the NT, persecution is a guarantee from God to His people if and only if they follow Him as He instructed us to do in detail. So persecution is in no way God's Judgment for sin on us. It is God's promise and His promise of future eternal reward for us if we follow Him. "All who live Godly in Christ Jesus, will suffer persecution" "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you"

Side note: Most professing Christians (including IFBs) follow Jesus to the church house and leave Him there when they go home for 95% of any given week. No chastisement, No Spanking from the Lord, No conviction of the Spirit, No guilt, etc... AND CERTAINLY NO PERSECUTION. IOW: No born again believer either (only professing but He still has never known them)

In addition, apostasy is in no way God's doing. He has never been or ever will be the author of sin or confusion.

 

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19 hours ago, wretched said:

For us in the NT, persecution is a guarantee from God to His people if and only if they follow Him as He instructed us to do in detail. So persecution is in no way God's Judgment for sin on us. It is God's promise and His promise of future eternal reward for us if we follow Him. "All who live Godly in Christ Jesus, will suffer persecution" "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you"  (emphasis added by Pastor Scott Markle)

Amen!  The "persecution for godliness" passages do not present persecution as a means of our Lord's judgment upon the faithful, but as a means for the faithful to "fill up" the "afflictions of Christ" and thereby to glorify Him.

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Amen brothers Wretched and Markle.  Our persecution is something entirely different than God's wrath.

Something I struggled with for years before finally understanding first-hand is how Paul said he was GLAD and GLORIED in his infirmities. That was such a difficult thing to understand for quite some time. I have to admit when I was first diagnosed with both uncurable and progressively worsening diseases, I was not at all graceful in accepting the diagnosis. But when I learned that God wanted my undivided attention, my realization that I must rely FULLY upon Him... it became easier to understand. Putting Him first is what I should have (and we all should have) done. I thought I was living for Christ... yet once I became physically disabled, I realized just how much of the worldly concerns had taken up both my time and attention in the past. I'm not saying go and quit your job... you have to be able to provide for your families, but I have to say now that I don't have strength to even quilt or sew I realize how much time I wasted in pursuits such as work, hobbies, and even gardening which could have been better spent on the word of God and prayer time. It's humbling to realize how many worldly things have gotten in the way over the years... the worst and most shameful to me was television time... there's nothing good on the TV. Most of the "Christian" channels are rife with false doctrine, "prosperity" messages, false "healers", and total lack of Biblical truth. Most of them will pick a verse out of the Bible (especially the old testament) and attempt to apply it to the age of grace and/or something entirely different than what the verses (in context) were even talking about. Then there's the female "pastors". If they have such disrespect for God's word, we certainly won't learn anything of value from them! Much less on the secular channels, even the so-called "history" channel is loaded with liberal slant and anti-Christian, anti-Jewish rhetoric. The main stream media has the same liberal NWO slant. These are the last days, time is short (even shorter for me, should the Lord tarry) and I am just thankful that the Lord woke me up from my complacency and ignorance in thinking that I was living for Him, and stupidly I had compared my life to other Christians, as being far better in living for Christ than they. When in actuality, I was living for myself just as much if not more so. The years I spent watching television while quilting or sewing on my days off, I could have spent at LEAST listening to KJV audio bible while doing those hobbies.  I'm sad it took such drastic measures to get my attention solely focused on the Lord, and I do not enjoy the pain and suffering. But I do know that when I am prompted by unbearable pain to cry out to the Lord, and He helps me, I know the power of Christ is resting upon me... in my weakness He is made strong. I now also have a much greater appreciation for "good days" when pain is more tolerable, and I can focus on His word without distraction... I make sure to thank Him for these things, and all blessings. Once again, ashamed that good health was something I took for granted for many years. I share this not to get a pat on the back... that doesn't help me one bit. Matter of fact it's embarrassing to admit... I share this because for anyone who is still healthy and is blessed with any free time at all, I caution you to use that free time wisely for the Lord, not on worldly TV and vain hobbies. Always be thankful for every blessing. Romans 14:12 tells us we will all give an account of ourselves to God.

2 Cor. 12:9-10 "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me" 10 "Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." 

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