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Is 'Calling Upon The Name of the Lord' salvation?


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This is a very important issue and Scripture makes it very simple:
But, Satan has used “religion” to gum it all up.

Here is what the Bible says about Salvation...... Romans 10:8-11
V.8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart:
that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
V.9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
V.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
V.11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

➀This tells us, that Salvation includes a “verbal declaration” from us!
➁And that declaration includes the name of Jesus!
➂While simultaneously believing in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead!
➃And(V.11), that those who truly believe, will not be ashamed to make this declaration!
➄Then Verses 13, tells us that this declaration, comes in the form of a “call”(appeal)!
------------------------
Oh, by the way: Verse 14, does not say what most people thinks it says!
When you carefully study verses 14-21, you will see that verse 14 is a rebellious challenge to God, by a “disobedient and gainsaying people”.
The fact is, the whole world stands “guilty” before God; Even if they have not been visited by a preacher, because of “natural revelation”(V.18).

 

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On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

No. I am not saying that at all.

Do you have an example of one person calling upon the name of the Lord to get saved?

Brother Pittman,

Do you accept the example of the publican in Luke 18:13-14 who called upon the Lord God to be merciful unto him a sinner, and who was justified before the Lord God thereby?

Do you accept the example of the malefactor in Luke 23:42-43 who called upon the Lord Jesus Christ to remember him (with mercy), and who was "saved" thereby?
 

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

There is no doctrine, if there is no example.

 Really???  Is that a foundational point of logic that you hold for all doctrinal promise and precept in God's Word?  You do realize that I can provide a number of such promises and precepts from God's Word wherein no specific example is recorded in Scripture as having occurred.  For example:

1.  The book of the Proverbs provides a number of instructions concerning the discipline of children  by their parents with the rod (spanking).  Yet I am not aware of a single example of such a practice actually being recorded in Scripture.

2.  In James 5:14 one who is sick among the believers of the church are instructed to "call for the elders of the church," that those elders might "pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord."  Yet I am not aware of a single example of such a practice actually being recorded in Scripture.
 

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

There is no doctrine, if there is no example.

Otherwise it is a made up teaching, and the verse of Romans 10:13 must mean something else other than someone getting saved by calling upon the name of the Lord.

No, there is not "a made up teaching" if the teaching is actually accurate to the text and context.  Even so, I presented my questions concerning Romans 10:13-14, as follows:

1.  Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as something that precedes the being saved?

2.  Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as a requirement for the being saved?

3.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the believing as something that precedes the calling upon the name of the Lord?

4.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the hearing as something that precedes the believing on the Lord?

5.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the preacher's preaching as something that precedes the hearing about the Lord?
 

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

(Btw, you might want to look up the original 1611 text and notice the deleted comma in this verse, if you are using the common 1769 edition.)

Did you mean the removal of the comma after the whosoever phrase, such as also in John 3:15, John 3:16, John 4:14, John 12:46, and Acts 10:43 (just to list a few)?

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14 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

What if you are totally unable to speak; what then?

 

I may be wrong but I don't believe anyone here is actually trying to say that an inability to communicate via known linguistic structure invalidates the heart's expression.

 

If you've had much interaction with anyone "vocally handicapped" then you know that they have no problem expressing their emotions or desires -- they just have a real hard time finding another person who can understand what they "said".

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14 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

I may be wrong but I don't believe anyone here is actually trying to say that an inability to communicate via known linguistic structure invalidates the heart's expression.

 

If you've had much interaction with anyone "vocally handicapped" then you know that they have no problem expressing their emotions or desires -- they just have a real hard time finding another person who can understand what they "said".

...and I never said that someone who could not speak cannot express themselves. The point was, not everyone can verbally call upon the name of the Lord, a nd some cannot express themselves at all., but they can believe with the heart. Case in point, if someone 'trapped inside their body'', such as world renown scientist Steven Hawking, were to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ", in his heart, it may be several minutes before he could type the message out with his eyebrows, facial expression or however he does it. At what point would he be saved?And what if a person doesn't have the financial means to use a high tech gizmo like Hawking has?  I think the calling on the Lord takes place IN THE HEART before it reaches the "mouth". BUT, if something  really DID happen in the heart, the mouth or some type of "expression" will follow. That's all I'm saying. You don't "Do" anything to be saved: you do things because you ARE saved.

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16 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

...and I never said that someone who could not speak cannot express themselves.

 I think the calling on the Lord takes place IN THE HEART before it reaches the "mouth". BUT, if something  really DID happen in the heart, the mouth or some type of "expression" will follow.

Your question sounded to me as if you thought others were teaching, "No verbalized prayer in my language, no salvation". Now IF someone was actually teaching that (may be but I doubt it), then my question would be whether "Mr. Jones" went to Hell after the heart cry (during the sermon) of "Yes, this Jesus and His salvation is what I need and want" due to the fact that he died of a heart attack in the center aisle of the church before someone could "deal with him" during the "invitation".

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33 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

If you've had much interaction with anyone "vocally handicapped" then you know that they have no problem expressing their emotions or desires -- they just have a real hard time finding another person who can understand what they "said".

Yet the Lord God Himself has no problem whatsoever in understanding what they "said," right?

19 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

The point was, not everyone can verbally call upon the name of the Lord, a nd some cannot express themselves at all., but they can believe with the heart.

Indeed!  And if they can "believe with the heart," they can also "call upon the name of the Lord" from the heart.  Romans 10:13 does NOT require an individually to physically speak forth a "call upon the name of the Lord" with the vocalizations of the mouth.  Yet it does require an individual to "call upon the name of the Lord" in some manner, and calling upon the Lord IS by definition a prayer.

19 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

I think the calling on the Lord takes place IN THE HEART before it reaches the "mouth". BUT, if something  really DID happen in the heart, the mouth or some type of "expression" will follow. That's all I'm saying. You don't "Do" anything to be saved: you do things because you ARE saved.

AMEN!  Although I myself would express that last statement a little differently -- You do not "DO" a verbalized prayer (or any other work, for that matter) to be saved; but the faith of a sinner's heart for salvation from the Savior is by definition a prayer-expression (call) from the heart for the Savior to save.  Indeed, I myself would say that salvation is by the call of faith.

Now, concerning a verbalized prayer -- When I am presenting the gospel unto a lost sinners, I communicate that eternal salvation is by God's grace through faith without works.  Furthermore, I communicate that they may express their faith upon the Savior by calling upon him from and in the heart for salvation.  However, I request that they might prayer their prayer out loud in order that I might have the privilege to hear it, since although the Lord is able to "hear" their heart, I myself am not able to do so.  Yet I also make certain to communicate that the words of prayer are not some type of "magical" words that save, since the prayer itself is not that which provides salvation.

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To all,

Please understand that I did not enter this discussion actually to engage over the matter of asking the lost sinner to pray some form of verbalized prayer, or not.  Rather, I entered this discussion because some appeared to be striking against (?cancelling out?) the specific teaching of Romans 10:13.  I myself am not overly interested to engage in doctrinal bantering for doctrinal bantering's sake.  However, I am often moved with interest to engage in discussion (?debates?) over the correct grammatical, contextual, Biblical understanding of a given passage or passages of Scripture.  My concern in this particular discussion is just that with which I entered -- What does Romans 10:13 actually say (grammatically), and what does Romans 10:13 actually mean?  The statement of Romans 10:13 carries the very authority of God's Holy Word.  Whatever it says (grammatically) and means is THE TRUTH in this matter.

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32 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

Your question sounded to me as if you thought others were teaching, "No verbalized prayer in my language, no salvation". Now IF someone was actually teaching that (may be but I doubt it), then my question would be whether "Mr. Jones" went to Hell after the heart cry (during the sermon) of "Yes, this Jesus and His salvation is what I need and want" due to the fact that he died of a heart attack in the center aisle of the church before someone could "deal with him" during the "invitation".

Maybe so, or maybe it just sounded to me like a step one step two... thing .   Personally, I can only speak for myself. Jesus came in my heart the split second I believed and a verbal YELL in the form of "JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!" followed the next second or two, or maybe a nanosecond.. I bet some folks were freaked out, shocked, whatever but I didn't care. I don't believe in a #1 repent #2 believe #3 call, #4 ............or any variation of such. Anyway, interesting discussion. Maybe we all can learn something.

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1 hour ago, heartstrings said:

Maybe so, or maybe it just sounded to me like a step one step two... thing .   Personally, I can only speak for myself. Jesus came in my heart the split second I believed and a verbal YELL in the form of "JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!" followed the next second or two, or maybe a nanosecond.. I bet some folks were freaked out, shocked, whatever but I didn't care.

Haha, I like it -- gotta tell my wife, she'll love it!

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5 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Pittman,

Do you accept the example of the publican in Luke 18:13-14 who called upon the Lord God to be merciful unto him a sinner, and who was justified before the Lord God thereby?

Do you accept the example of the malefactor in Luke 23:42-43 who called upon the Lord Jesus Christ to remember him (with mercy), and who was "saved" thereby?
 

 Really???  Is that a foundational point of logic that you hold for all doctrinal promise and precept in God's Word?  You do realize that I can provide a number of such promises and precepts from God's Word wherein no specific example is recorded in Scripture as having occurred.  For example:

1.  The book of the Proverbs provides a number of instructions concerning the discipline of children  by their parents with the rod (spanking).  Yet I am not aware of a single example of such a practice actually being recorded in Scripture.

2.  In James 5:14 one who is sick among the believers of the church are instructed to "call for the elders of the church," that those elders might "pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord."  Yet I am not aware of a single example of such a practice actually being recorded in Scripture.
 

No, there is not "a made up teaching" if the teaching is actually accurate to the text and context.  Even so, I presented my questions concerning Romans 10:13-14, as follows:

1.  Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as something that precedes the being saved?

2.  Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as a requirement for the being saved?

3.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the believing as something that precedes the calling upon the name of the Lord?

4.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the hearing as something that precedes the believing on the Lord?

5.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the preacher's preaching as something that precedes the hearing about the Lord?
 

Did you mean the removal of the comma after the whosoever phrase, such as also in John 3:15, John 3:16, John 4:14, John 12:46, and Acts 10:43 (just to list a few)?

I get your point Bro. Scott.

But is there somewhere where someone is led to the Lord in a prayer for Jesus to save them?

No.

Surely after all the generations of church people leading the lost to Jesus by having them call upon his name to save them there should be verses upon which to base that system upon.

And if Romans 10:13 is it, I don't think it is true.

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13 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

I get your point Bro. Scott.

But is there somewhere where someone is led to the Lord in a prayer for Jesus to save them?

No.

Surely after all the generations of church people leading the lost to Jesus by having them call upon his name to save them there should be verses upon which to base that system upon.

And if Romans 10:13 is it, I don't think it is true.

Brother Pittman,

1.  Our responsibility as believers is to go into the world and to preach and teach the gospel unto lost sinners, as per Matthew 28:19-20 & Mark 16:15.  If Romans 10:13 is a part of that Biblical gospel, then we are responsible to preach and teach the truth of that verse unto the lost (just as any other truth of the gospel).

2.  I am not exactly certain of the meaning in your question -- "But is there somewhere where someone is led to the Lord in a prayer for Jesus to save them?" 

(1) Do you mean -- Is there a Biblical example of someone who is instructed to pray unto the Lord to save them? 
(2) Or, do you mean -- is there a Biblical example of someone who is instructed to repeat after another in praying a prayer unto the Lord to save them?

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I don't know if this would be considered throwing this off topic or not, but a thought occurred to me when reading all of the responses here.  I've listened to countless sermons over my lifetime, and back when I could attend (physically, in person) I was always a little miffed when a "guest pastor" or "special speaker" would neglect to give an altar call at the end of the service.  I was always even more upset when the "new" pastor took over at the local church and also neglected to give an altar call most of the time.  I am wondering if this upsets anyone else?

I am not a proponent of "easy-believe-ism" nor of a "1-2-3-repeat after me" type of message of salvation.  I do think that if an altar call is given there should be elders (and in the best case scenario a woman speaking to a woman or a man speaking to a man) to help lead these people to Christ should one feel compelled to come forth for an altar call for salvation.  I think those in the position of helping them should be able to show them (people coming forth) Bible verses pertaining to salvation, and that they should be able to explain very well that it's not a "magical" "say this" and "get saved" thing, but is instead a heart AND head belief that Jesus died (willingly) on the cross for ANYONE who will accept His payment for our sin, that He was resurrected thereby defeating death and the grave, so that we too will be resurrected. And also to make certain to bring forth verses showing how there are NO WORKS which "help" us in our salvation in any way, but that Christ did ALL the work and was the only acceptable perfect sacrifice God accepted for the remission of sins, and that Jesus' righteousness is imputed upon us when we accept/believe upon Him for salvation.  This will likely take longer than 2 minutes to discuss unless the person has been going to church or has read the Bible enough to understand these basic things (and in the first church I went to, the elders/and women would take these people who came forth during an altar call to the open side room where they could discuss with a bit more privacy such an important decision).  

The reason I bring this up is (again) because of the lack of altar calls I've seen (in the past) as well as some of the ones I did see later on which were so short in length that it  left me wondering if the person really DID accept and believe upon Jesus for salvation. I don't think it's rocket science, I do think it's uncomplicated enough a child can understand at a certain point, and it does require calling upon Jesus for salvation along with believing He can and does save. So again... I am not into "easy believe-ism", but I would like to know if an altar call SHOULD be given often (if not every time)? And does it bother anyone else when it is neglected?

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23 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Pittman,

1.  Our responsibility as believers is to go into the world and to preach and teach the gospel unto lost sinners, as per Matthew 28:19-20 & Mark 16:15.  If Romans 10:13 is a part of that Biblical gospel, then we are responsible to preach and teach the truth of that verse unto the lost (just as any other truth of the gospel).

2.  I am not exactly certain of the meaning in your question -- "But is there somewhere where someone is led to the Lord in a prayer for Jesus to save them?" 

(1) Do you mean -- Is there a Biblical example of someone who is instructed to pray unto the Lord to save them? 
(2) Or, do you mean -- is there a Biblical example of someone who is instructed to repeat after another in praying a prayer unto the Lord to save them?

Number (1) Bro. Scott.

Number (2) is not even worthy of asking.

Thanks.

 

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On 4/11/2016 at 3:42 PM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Pittman,

Really???  Is that a foundational point of logic that you hold for all doctrinal promise and precept in God's Word?  You do realize that I can provide a number of such promises and precepts from God's Word wherein no specific example is recorded in Scripture as having occurred.  

I am sorry Bro. Scott, but I thought it was understood we were talking about salvation. Not just about any teaching.

Yes I am sure there are plenty of teachings without examples, but we are talking about eternity, not earthy things.

Thanks.

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1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

I am sorry Bro. Scott, but I thought it was understood we were talking about salvation. Not just about any teaching.

Yes I am sure there are plenty of teachings without examples, but we are talking about eternity, not earthy things.

Thanks.

Brother Pittman,

I do apologize, for I did not understand that you were narrowing this only to the doctrine of salvation.  However, I must say that I still would not agree with your foundational premise that an example MUST be recorded in Scripture in order to accept as true a Biblical precept, principle, or promise even in relation to the doctrine of salvation.  Rather, I would contend that if God's Word provides a precept, principle, or promise in relation to the doctrine of salvation, that precept, principle, or promise is true simply because God's Word delivered it.
 

1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Number (1) Bro. Scott.

Number (2) is not even worthy of asking.

Thanks.

  Indeed, I would be compelled to agree that there is no possible example in Scripture for the case of my question #2.

On the other hand, concerning the case of my question #1, I must ask another question before I can deliver an answer -- Do you believe that Simon the sorcerer was genuinely saved in Acts 8:13, or do you believe that he was a "false believer" in Acts 8:13?

(Note: I myself believe that Simon the sorcerer was a genuine believer who was genuinely saved in Acts 8:13; however, I am aware that many do not agree with me on this.  Even so, your answer to the above question will have a bearing upon my ability to provide an example in Scripture for the case of my question #1.)

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19 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Pittman,

On the other hand, concerning the case of my question #1, I must ask another question before I can deliver an answer -- Do you believe that Simon the sorcerer was genuinely saved in Acts 8:13, or do you believe that he was a "false believer" in Acts 8:13?

(Note: I myself believe that Simon the sorcerer was a genuine believer who was genuinely saved in Acts 8:13; however, I am aware that many do not agree with me on this.  Even so, your answer to the above question will have a bearing upon my ability to provide an example in Scripture for the case of my question #1.)

I have no reason to think he wasn't, contrary to popular belief.

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22 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

I myself believe that Simon the sorcerer was a genuine believer who was genuinely saved in Acts 8:13

 

2 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

I have no reason to think he wasn't, contrary to popular belief.

 

Well then...that makes three! 

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3 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

I have no reason to think he wasn't, contrary to popular belief.

Well then, for both you and I the case of Peter's instruction to Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8:22 would NOT be a valid case to fulfill your request for an example of one who was instructed to pray unto God for salvation.  Even so, I cannot at this time think of any other Scriptural example to fulfill your request.

However, my point would have been (for the sake of the argument, if you held to the position that Simon the sorcerer was a false believer in Acts 8:13) the case of Acts 8:22.  Indeed, for those who do hold to the position that Simon the sorcerer was simply a false believer in Acts 8:13, they could point to Acts 8:22 as an example to fulfill the request.  While that example would NOT actually satisfy you, because you believe that Simon the sorcerer was a genuine believer in Acts 8:13, it could satisfy them that they had provided an example.

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On 4/13/2016 at 10:07 PM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

However, I must say that I still would not agree with your foundational premise that an example MUST be recorded in Scripture in order to accept as true a Biblical precept, principle, or promise even in relation to the doctrine of salvation.  Rather, I would contend that if God's Word provides a precept, principle, or promise in relation to the doctrine of salvation, that precept, principle, or promise is true simply because God's Word delivered it.

But wouldn't you think there would be ONE experience in the scriptures showing someone praying to Jesus to get saved? (after Jesus' ascension, of course.)

I mean, come on, Churches all over America experience 'salvations' from people 'calling upon the name of the Lord' every Sunday! If that's the 'way of salvation' - show proof from the experiences of the early NT Church disciples!

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22 minutes ago, Genevanpreacher said:

But wouldn't you think there would be ONE experience in the scriptures showing someone praying to Jesus to get saved? (after Jesus' ascension, of course.)

I mean, come on, Churches all over America experience 'salvations' from people 'calling upon the name of the Lord' every Sunday! If that's the 'way of salvation' - show proof from the experiences of the early NT Church disciples!

Brother Pittman,

In a previous posting, I presented the following TWO examples:

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 3:42 PM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Pittman,

Do you accept the example of the publican in Luke 18:13-14 who called upon the Lord God to be merciful unto him a sinner, and who was justified before the Lord God thereby?

Do you accept the example of the malefactor in Luke 23:42-43 who called upon the Lord Jesus Christ to remember him (with mercy), and who was "saved" thereby?

So then, what say you?

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5 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Pittman,

In a previous posting, I presented the following TWO examples:

So then, what say you?

In both those examples there was much more going on than just a calling out to the Lord.

Unfortunately I know many people who believe they are going to heaven some day because they simply called out to the Lord. Often in a watered down prayer where they called out to Jesus to come into their heart.

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13 minutes ago, John81 said:

In both those examples there was much more going on than just a calling out to the Lord.

Unfortunately I know many people who believe they are going to heaven some day because they simply called out to the Lord. Often in a watered down prayer where they called out to Jesus to come into their heart.

I called out one word; "JESUS!!" , but I guarantee it was childlike faith, straight from my heart, Jesus was there, God heard it, and the Holy Ghost witnessed.  What constitutes a "watered down prayer"/

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1 hour ago, John81 said:

In both those examples there was much more going on than just a calling out to the Lord.

Unfortunately I know many people who believe they are going to heaven some day because they simply called out to the Lord. Often in a watered down prayer where they called out to Jesus to come into their heart.

Indeed.  However, this is not the point of the challenge.  I certainly agree that a "prayer-statement" in-and-of itself, apart from repentance and faith of the heart, is NOT sufficient for salvation.  Yet the challenge in this discussion is whether anyone is required to "call upon the name of the Lord" at all, as motivated by the repentance and faith of the heart.

TWO examples have been provided.  Yet they will likely be denied because they were not "after Jesus' ascension, of course."

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50 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Indeed.  However, this is not the point of the challenge.  I certainly agree that a "prayer-statement" in-and-of itself, apart from repentance and faith of the heart, is NOT sufficient for salvation.  Yet the challenge in this discussion is whether anyone is required to "call upon the name of the Lord" at all, as motivated by the repentance and faith of the heart.

TWO examples have been provided.  Yet they will likely be denied because they were not "after Jesus' ascension, of course."

I understand your view, but, (as you were expecting), they don't match what people are told today about calling upon the name of the Lord, Bro. Scott.

Neither of them asked to get saved. Neither called upon Jesus in prayer. Especially the publican. So yes it would have to be on the same side of the cross as us.

There is no example you can show of someone preaching the gospel and someone getting convicted, and the preacher telling that person convicted to call upon Jesus Christ to come into his heart and save him, by calling upon the name of the Lord.

Not one.

Yet modern Churches do this all the time.

Where does it come from?

Somewhere a new 'gospel' was formed?

Sounds like Galatians 'issue' all over again. Galatians 1:6-12.

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Here is a question:

Which gospel saves? Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom:

Mat_4:23  And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom,

Mat_24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mar1:1  The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mar_1:14  Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God

In Acts 15:7 we see salvation being of two parts 1. hearing the gospel and 2. believing it.

In Acts 8 we see the gospel of the kingdom still being preached and this after the cross and then we see the Ethiopian being save by only believing Jesus to be the son of God and being baptized - kingdom gospel.

So when did the gospel change? Acts 10 when Peter has his vision. Take note from vrs 34.

Take particular note of :

Act 10:43  To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

And then take note how they were only baptized in water AFTER having received the Holy Ghost.

That is why when peter stood up before everyone that was arguing the true methods of salvation and stated:

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

EVERYONE "kept silence"

So I ask "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, 2Tim215 said:

Here is a question:

Which gospel saves? Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom:

Mat_4:23  And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom,

Mat_24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mar1:1  The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mar_1:14  Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God

In Acts 15:7 we see salvation being of two parts 1. hearing the gospel and 2. believing it.

In Acts 8 we see the gospel of the kingdom still being preached and this after the cross and then we see the Ethiopian being save by only believing Jesus to be the son of God and being baptized - kingdom gospel.

So when did the gospel change? Acts 10 when Peter has his vision. Take note from vrs 34.

Take particular note of :

Act 10:43  To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

And then take note how they were only baptized in water AFTER having received the Holy Ghost.

That is why when peter stood up before everyone that was arguing the true methods of salvation and stated:

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

EVERYONE "kept silence"

So I ask "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

There was, is, and always shalbe, only one salvation gospel.

Only 'doctors' of the Bible will teach otherwise.

And you do know that doctors say they are practicing medicine don't you?

Well, that's what so-called Bible teachers are doing to the masses who really don't care about doctrine. 

They 'practice' on the sheeple. And boy have they created some terrible monsters of the faith. 

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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50 minutes ago, Genevanpreacher said:

There was, is, and always shalbe, only one salvation gospel.

Only 'doctors' of the Bible will teach otherwise.

And you do know that doctors say they are practicing medicine don't you?

Well, that's what so-called Bible teachers are doing to the masses who really don't care about doctrine. 

They 'practice' on the sheeple. And boy have they created some terrible monsters of the faith. 

So you are saying we can only be saved by Jesus's "gospel of the kingdom"?

If you are we have a problem. It's very easy to throw thinly veiled insults and vague references to doctors and sheeple without actually giving evidence to your one salvation gospel. How I really hate it when people throw things out there as if it's THE truth and never giving scripture to back it up. They have the energy to type out hyperbole but never the energy to put in some scriptures to back up there claim. Give me some scriptures and then maybe we can continue this dialogue in a friendly and edifying manner. And whilst you are please point out the admittance of repentance of sin and the baptism by water for the thief on the cross. He did nothing more than accept his guilt, accept the innocence of Christ and ask to be remembered.

Luke 23:39-43

 

Edited by 2Tim215
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On 5/14/2016 at 3:21 PM, 2Tim215 said:

So you are saying we can only be saved by Jesus's "gospel of the kingdom"?

If you are we have a problem. It's very easy to throw thinly veiled insults and vague references to doctors and sheeple without actually giving evidence to your one salvation gospel. How I really hate it when people throw things out there as if it's THE truth and never giving scripture to back it up. They have the energy to type out hyperbole but never the energy to put in some scriptures to back up there claim. Give me some scriptures and then maybe we can continue this dialogue in a friendly and edifying manner. And whilst you are please point out the admittance of repentance of sin and the baptism by water for the thief on the cross. He did nothing more than accept his guilt, accept the innocence of Christ and ask to be remembered.

Luke 23:39-43

 

Wow!

Just read the NT sir, and it all falls in line. Only believing with all your heart in the One Lord - Jesus Christ - can save anyone. If you have read the scriptures, you are up on Jesus being one with the Father, right? Well, he was in the OT also, as still one with the Father. The scriptures say the same thing about believing in God/Jesus Christ. I am not being mean spirited, but I figured you might already have read all the Bible - I might have been mistaken. My apologies for being mistaken.

There is no "gospel of the kingdom" apart from salvation.

The kingdom is the eternal kingdom of eternity...life forever in God's presence. 

Thanks.

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Ok, maybe you are a 'kingdom of God' vs. 'kingdom of Heaven' kinda person? That would explain why you are upset about my comments. I believe they are both the same thing, if that helps you with my view. Been through this type of discussion and it leads no where.

Thanks.

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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2 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Ok, maybe you are a 'kingdom of God' vs. 'kingdom of Heaven' kinda person? That would explain why you are upset about my comments. I believe they are both the same thing, if that helps you with my view. Been through this type of discussion and it leads no where.

Thanks.

Not mad, don't get mad about doctrinal differences anymore. I do believe they are one and the same - different sides to the same coin if you will. I just like people to back up there statements with scripture. And yes, the entire bible does fall in line and though there were differing methods to people getting saved in the beginning chapters of the NT I understand the why and how so agree that this discussion will lead no where.

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