Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Genevanpreacher

Is 'Calling Upon The Name of the Lord' salvation?

Recommended Posts

Just now, Genevanpreacher said:

A simple answer Bro. Scott.

You get that simple answer, grammatically or not, by quoting one verse as a true example of someone in the NT doing that very thing.

If there is no verse, there is no 'calling upon the name of the Lord' to get saved.

Men have made up SO many false doctrines, not really doctrines at all, but just like in Galatians 1, they have preached another Gospel, not a real Gospel, but they have perverted the Gospel of Christ.

Ahhh.  So then, are you seeking to communicate that if I cannot produce a second verse, specifically one that shows an example of a person "calling upon the name of the Lord" and being saved through that call, THEN we can cancel out the teaching of Romans 10:13?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Ahhh.  So then, are you seeking to communicate that if I cannot produce a second verse, specifically one that shows an example of a person "calling upon the name of the Lord" and being saved through that call, THEN we can cancel out the teaching of Romans 10:13?

No. I am not saying that at all.

Do you have an example of one person calling upon the name of the Lord to get saved?

There is no doctrine, if there is no example.

Otherwise it is a made up teaching, and the verse of Romans 10:13 must mean something else other than someone getting saved by calling upon the name of the Lord.

(Btw, you might want to look up the original 1611 text and notice the deleted comma in this verse, if you are using the common 1769 edition.)

Edited by Genevanpreacher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is getting a bit childish GP. If we have to have the exact words you insist on, I believe we can look to Peter's plea that is duly recorded as Scripture in the NT.

 Mat. 14:30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. 
 31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wondering how Romans 10:13 can be the basis without looking 4 verses up from it to verse 9 which tell us how it is done:

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

Pretty clear (to me anyways) that "confessing with the mouth" AND believing in the heart actually IS calling upon the Lord for salvation.

Edited by Ronda
spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I might also caution that it looks like we are getting into a bit of "thread drift" here. Brother Donald's OP asked a very specific question, and that question was, "Is Repentance part of the Gospel?:ot:

Having said that, I find that I am also guilty of contributing to this "thread drift". In this respect I would suggest that if we need to continue with another subject such as is found in  Romans 10:13 we need to open a new thread with this Scripture as its basis.

:sign0113:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

I might also caution that it looks like we are getting into a bit of "thread drift" here. Brother Donald's OP asked a very specific question, and that question was, "Is Repentance part of the Gospel?:ot:

Having said that, I find that I am also guilty of contributing to this "thread drift". In this respect I would suggest that if we need to continue with another subject such as is found in  Romans 10:13 we need to open a new thread with this Scripture as its basis.

:sign0113:

Brother Jim,

I certainly appreciate your authority as a moderator on this matter, and I do not at all wish to stand in conflict with that authority.

However, the difficulty now in starting a new thread is how to provide that new-thread discussion with all of the previous context that has occurred within this thread.

I am not exactly certain how to do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I apologize for my part in knocking this thread off subject.

I shall start another, and all are invited who want to come over, and we can start anew.

Thanks.

Edited by Genevanpreacher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your response Bro. Scott. I am not certain how to do it or if it can be done either. On my own forums I can separate and break apart threads and make new ones out of them. I will have to see if that can be done on this board, I am not all that familiar with what mods can do in this respect.

I just got a notice that GP said he will start a new thread on this subject. Perhaps we can just rehash everything even if it has been said before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Continuing our discussion from another thread.

Do you have a verse or verses giving an example of someone getting saved, (born again), by 'asking Jesus to save them'?

Edited by Genevanpreacher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Here is the answer to the jailors question in Acts 16:30.

What was his question?

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

No prayer. No proof at all of calling upon the name of the Lord for salvation.

Anyone else?

Edited by Genevanpreacher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a very important issue and Scripture makes it very simple:
But, Satan has used “religion” to gum it all up.

Here is what the Bible says about Salvation...... Romans 10:8-11
V.8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart:
that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
V.9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
V.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
V.11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

➀This tells us, that Salvation includes a “verbal declaration” from us!
➁And that declaration includes the name of Jesus!
➂While simultaneously believing in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead!
➃And(V.11), that those who truly believe, will not be ashamed to make this declaration!
➄Then Verses 13, tells us that this declaration, comes in the form of a “call”(appeal)!
------------------------
Oh, by the way: Verse 14, does not say what most people thinks it says!
When you carefully study verses 14-21, you will see that verse 14 is a rebellious challenge to God, by a “disobedient and gainsaying people”.
The fact is, the whole world stands “guilty” before God; Even if they have not been visited by a preacher, because of “natural revelation”(V.18).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

No. I am not saying that at all.

Do you have an example of one person calling upon the name of the Lord to get saved?

Brother Pittman,

Do you accept the example of the publican in Luke 18:13-14 who called upon the Lord God to be merciful unto him a sinner, and who was justified before the Lord God thereby?

Do you accept the example of the malefactor in Luke 23:42-43 who called upon the Lord Jesus Christ to remember him (with mercy), and who was "saved" thereby?
 

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

There is no doctrine, if there is no example.

 Really???  Is that a foundational point of logic that you hold for all doctrinal promise and precept in God's Word?  You do realize that I can provide a number of such promises and precepts from God's Word wherein no specific example is recorded in Scripture as having occurred.  For example:

1.  The book of the Proverbs provides a number of instructions concerning the discipline of children  by their parents with the rod (spanking).  Yet I am not aware of a single example of such a practice actually being recorded in Scripture.

2.  In James 5:14 one who is sick among the believers of the church are instructed to "call for the elders of the church," that those elders might "pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord."  Yet I am not aware of a single example of such a practice actually being recorded in Scripture.
 

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

There is no doctrine, if there is no example.

Otherwise it is a made up teaching, and the verse of Romans 10:13 must mean something else other than someone getting saved by calling upon the name of the Lord.

No, there is not "a made up teaching" if the teaching is actually accurate to the text and context.  Even so, I presented my questions concerning Romans 10:13-14, as follows:

1.  Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as something that precedes the being saved?

2.  Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as a requirement for the being saved?

3.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the believing as something that precedes the calling upon the name of the Lord?

4.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the hearing as something that precedes the believing on the Lord?

5.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the preacher's preaching as something that precedes the hearing about the Lord?
 

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

(Btw, you might want to look up the original 1611 text and notice the deleted comma in this verse, if you are using the common 1769 edition.)

Did you mean the removal of the comma after the whosoever phrase, such as also in John 3:15, John 3:16, John 4:14, John 12:46, and Acts 10:43 (just to list a few)?

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
grammar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

What if you are totally unable to speak; what then?

 

I may be wrong but I don't believe anyone here is actually trying to say that an inability to communicate via known linguistic structure invalidates the heart's expression.

 

If you've had much interaction with anyone "vocally handicapped" then you know that they have no problem expressing their emotions or desires -- they just have a real hard time finding another person who can understand what they "said".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

I may be wrong but I don't believe anyone here is actually trying to say that an inability to communicate via known linguistic structure invalidates the heart's expression.

 

If you've had much interaction with anyone "vocally handicapped" then you know that they have no problem expressing their emotions or desires -- they just have a real hard time finding another person who can understand what they "said".

...and I never said that someone who could not speak cannot express themselves. The point was, not everyone can verbally call upon the name of the Lord, a nd some cannot express themselves at all., but they can believe with the heart. Case in point, if someone 'trapped inside their body'', such as world renown scientist Steven Hawking, were to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ", in his heart, it may be several minutes before he could type the message out with his eyebrows, facial expression or however he does it. At what point would he be saved?And what if a person doesn't have the financial means to use a high tech gizmo like Hawking has?  I think the calling on the Lord takes place IN THE HEART before it reaches the "mouth". BUT, if something  really DID happen in the heart, the mouth or some type of "expression" will follow. That's all I'm saying. You don't "Do" anything to be saved: you do things because you ARE saved.

Edited by heartstrings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

...and I never said that someone who could not speak cannot express themselves.

 I think the calling on the Lord takes place IN THE HEART before it reaches the "mouth". BUT, if something  really DID happen in the heart, the mouth or some type of "expression" will follow.

Your question sounded to me as if you thought others were teaching, "No verbalized prayer in my language, no salvation". Now IF someone was actually teaching that (may be but I doubt it), then my question would be whether "Mr. Jones" went to Hell after the heart cry (during the sermon) of "Yes, this Jesus and His salvation is what I need and want" due to the fact that he died of a heart attack in the center aisle of the church before someone could "deal with him" during the "invitation".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

If you've had much interaction with anyone "vocally handicapped" then you know that they have no problem expressing their emotions or desires -- they just have a real hard time finding another person who can understand what they "said".

Yet the Lord God Himself has no problem whatsoever in understanding what they "said," right?

19 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

The point was, not everyone can verbally call upon the name of the Lord, a nd some cannot express themselves at all., but they can believe with the heart.

Indeed!  And if they can "believe with the heart," they can also "call upon the name of the Lord" from the heart.  Romans 10:13 does NOT require an individually to physically speak forth a "call upon the name of the Lord" with the vocalizations of the mouth.  Yet it does require an individual to "call upon the name of the Lord" in some manner, and calling upon the Lord IS by definition a prayer.

19 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

I think the calling on the Lord takes place IN THE HEART before it reaches the "mouth". BUT, if something  really DID happen in the heart, the mouth or some type of "expression" will follow. That's all I'm saying. You don't "Do" anything to be saved: you do things because you ARE saved.

AMEN!  Although I myself would express that last statement a little differently -- You do not "DO" a verbalized prayer (or any other work, for that matter) to be saved; but the faith of a sinner's heart for salvation from the Savior is by definition a prayer-expression (call) from the heart for the Savior to save.  Indeed, I myself would say that salvation is by the call of faith.

Now, concerning a verbalized prayer -- When I am presenting the gospel unto a lost sinners, I communicate that eternal salvation is by God's grace through faith without works.  Furthermore, I communicate that they may express their faith upon the Savior by calling upon him from and in the heart for salvation.  However, I request that they might prayer their prayer out loud in order that I might have the privilege to hear it, since although the Lord is able to "hear" their heart, I myself am not able to do so.  Yet I also make certain to communicate that the words of prayer are not some type of "magical" words that save, since the prayer itself is not that which provides salvation.

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To all,

Please understand that I did not enter this discussion actually to engage over the matter of asking the lost sinner to pray some form of verbalized prayer, or not.  Rather, I entered this discussion because some appeared to be striking against (?cancelling out?) the specific teaching of Romans 10:13.  I myself am not overly interested to engage in doctrinal bantering for doctrinal bantering's sake.  However, I am often moved with interest to engage in discussion (?debates?) over the correct grammatical, contextual, Biblical understanding of a given passage or passages of Scripture.  My concern in this particular discussion is just that with which I entered -- What does Romans 10:13 actually say (grammatically), and what does Romans 10:13 actually mean?  The statement of Romans 10:13 carries the very authority of God's Holy Word.  Whatever it says (grammatically) and means is THE TRUTH in this matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

Your question sounded to me as if you thought others were teaching, "No verbalized prayer in my language, no salvation". Now IF someone was actually teaching that (may be but I doubt it), then my question would be whether "Mr. Jones" went to Hell after the heart cry (during the sermon) of "Yes, this Jesus and His salvation is what I need and want" due to the fact that he died of a heart attack in the center aisle of the church before someone could "deal with him" during the "invitation".

Maybe so, or maybe it just sounded to me like a step one step two... thing .   Personally, I can only speak for myself. Jesus came in my heart the split second I believed and a verbal YELL in the form of "JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!" followed the next second or two, or maybe a nanosecond.. I bet some folks were freaked out, shocked, whatever but I didn't care. I don't believe in a #1 repent #2 believe #3 call, #4 ............or any variation of such. Anyway, interesting discussion. Maybe we all can learn something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, heartstrings said:

Maybe so, or maybe it just sounded to me like a step one step two... thing .   Personally, I can only speak for myself. Jesus came in my heart the split second I believed and a verbal YELL in the form of "JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!" followed the next second or two, or maybe a nanosecond.. I bet some folks were freaked out, shocked, whatever but I didn't care.

Haha, I like it -- gotta tell my wife, she'll love it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Pittman,

Do you accept the example of the publican in Luke 18:13-14 who called upon the Lord God to be merciful unto him a sinner, and who was justified before the Lord God thereby?

Do you accept the example of the malefactor in Luke 23:42-43 who called upon the Lord Jesus Christ to remember him (with mercy), and who was "saved" thereby?
 

 Really???  Is that a foundational point of logic that you hold for all doctrinal promise and precept in God's Word?  You do realize that I can provide a number of such promises and precepts from God's Word wherein no specific example is recorded in Scripture as having occurred.  For example:

1.  The book of the Proverbs provides a number of instructions concerning the discipline of children  by their parents with the rod (spanking).  Yet I am not aware of a single example of such a practice actually being recorded in Scripture.

2.  In James 5:14 one who is sick among the believers of the church are instructed to "call for the elders of the church," that those elders might "pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord."  Yet I am not aware of a single example of such a practice actually being recorded in Scripture.
 

No, there is not "a made up teaching" if the teaching is actually accurate to the text and context.  Even so, I presented my questions concerning Romans 10:13-14, as follows:

1.  Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as something that precedes the being saved?

2.  Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as a requirement for the being saved?

3.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the believing as something that precedes the calling upon the name of the Lord?

4.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the hearing as something that precedes the believing on the Lord?

5.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the preacher's preaching as something that precedes the hearing about the Lord?
 

Did you mean the removal of the comma after the whosoever phrase, such as also in John 3:15, John 3:16, John 4:14, John 12:46, and Acts 10:43 (just to list a few)?

I get your point Bro. Scott.

But is there somewhere where someone is led to the Lord in a prayer for Jesus to save them?

No.

Surely after all the generations of church people leading the lost to Jesus by having them call upon his name to save them there should be verses upon which to base that system upon.

And if Romans 10:13 is it, I don't think it is true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

I get your point Bro. Scott.

But is there somewhere where someone is led to the Lord in a prayer for Jesus to save them?

No.

Surely after all the generations of church people leading the lost to Jesus by having them call upon his name to save them there should be verses upon which to base that system upon.

And if Romans 10:13 is it, I don't think it is true.

Brother Pittman,

1.  Our responsibility as believers is to go into the world and to preach and teach the gospel unto lost sinners, as per Matthew 28:19-20 & Mark 16:15.  If Romans 10:13 is a part of that Biblical gospel, then we are responsible to preach and teach the truth of that verse unto the lost (just as any other truth of the gospel).

2.  I am not exactly certain of the meaning in your question -- "But is there somewhere where someone is led to the Lord in a prayer for Jesus to save them?" 

(1) Do you mean -- Is there a Biblical example of someone who is instructed to pray unto the Lord to save them? 
(2) Or, do you mean -- is there a Biblical example of someone who is instructed to repeat after another in praying a prayer unto the Lord to save them?

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
grammar & layout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if this would be considered throwing this off topic or not, but a thought occurred to me when reading all of the responses here.  I've listened to countless sermons over my lifetime, and back when I could attend (physically, in person) I was always a little miffed when a "guest pastor" or "special speaker" would neglect to give an altar call at the end of the service.  I was always even more upset when the "new" pastor took over at the local church and also neglected to give an altar call most of the time.  I am wondering if this upsets anyone else?

I am not a proponent of "easy-believe-ism" nor of a "1-2-3-repeat after me" type of message of salvation.  I do think that if an altar call is given there should be elders (and in the best case scenario a woman speaking to a woman or a man speaking to a man) to help lead these people to Christ should one feel compelled to come forth for an altar call for salvation.  I think those in the position of helping them should be able to show them (people coming forth) Bible verses pertaining to salvation, and that they should be able to explain very well that it's not a "magical" "say this" and "get saved" thing, but is instead a heart AND head belief that Jesus died (willingly) on the cross for ANYONE who will accept His payment for our sin, that He was resurrected thereby defeating death and the grave, so that we too will be resurrected. And also to make certain to bring forth verses showing how there are NO WORKS which "help" us in our salvation in any way, but that Christ did ALL the work and was the only acceptable perfect sacrifice God accepted for the remission of sins, and that Jesus' righteousness is imputed upon us when we accept/believe upon Him for salvation.  This will likely take longer than 2 minutes to discuss unless the person has been going to church or has read the Bible enough to understand these basic things (and in the first church I went to, the elders/and women would take these people who came forth during an altar call to the open side room where they could discuss with a bit more privacy such an important decision).  

The reason I bring this up is (again) because of the lack of altar calls I've seen (in the past) as well as some of the ones I did see later on which were so short in length that it  left me wondering if the person really DID accept and believe upon Jesus for salvation. I don't think it's rocket science, I do think it's uncomplicated enough a child can understand at a certain point, and it does require calling upon Jesus for salvation along with believing He can and does save. So again... I am not into "easy believe-ism", but I would like to know if an altar call SHOULD be given often (if not every time)? And does it bother anyone else when it is neglected?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Pittman,

1.  Our responsibility as believers is to go into the world and to preach and teach the gospel unto lost sinners, as per Matthew 28:19-20 & Mark 16:15.  If Romans 10:13 is a part of that Biblical gospel, then we are responsible to preach and teach the truth of that verse unto the lost (just as any other truth of the gospel).

2.  I am not exactly certain of the meaning in your question -- "But is there somewhere where someone is led to the Lord in a prayer for Jesus to save them?" 

(1) Do you mean -- Is there a Biblical example of someone who is instructed to pray unto the Lord to save them? 
(2) Or, do you mean -- is there a Biblical example of someone who is instructed to repeat after another in praying a prayer unto the Lord to save them?

Number (1) Bro. Scott.

Number (2) is not even worthy of asking.

Thanks.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/11/2016 at 3:42 PM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Pittman,

Really???  Is that a foundational point of logic that you hold for all doctrinal promise and precept in God's Word?  You do realize that I can provide a number of such promises and precepts from God's Word wherein no specific example is recorded in Scripture as having occurred.  

I am sorry Bro. Scott, but I thought it was understood we were talking about salvation. Not just about any teaching.

Yes I am sure there are plenty of teachings without examples, but we are talking about eternity, not earthy things.

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...