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Is 'Calling Upon The Name of the Lord' salvation?


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2 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

I might also caution that it looks like we are getting into a bit of "thread drift" here. Brother Donald's OP asked a very specific question, and that question was, "Is Repentance part of the Gospel?:ot:

Having said that, I find that I am also guilty of contributing to this "thread drift". In this respect I would suggest that if we need to continue with another subject such as is found in  Romans 10:13 we need to open a new thread with this Scripture as its basis.

:sign0113:

Brother Jim,

I certainly appreciate your authority as a moderator on this matter, and I do not at all wish to stand in conflict with that authority.

However, the difficulty now in starting a new thread is how to provide that new-thread discussion with all of the previous context that has occurred within this thread.

I am not exactly certain how to do that.

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Thanks for your response Bro. Scott. I am not certain how to do it or if it can be done either. On my own forums I can separate and break apart threads and make new ones out of them. I will have to see if that can be done on this board, I am not all that familiar with what mods can do in this respect.

I just got a notice that GP said he will start a new thread on this subject. Perhaps we can just rehash everything even if it has been said before.

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And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Here is the answer to the jailors question in Acts 16:30.

What was his question?

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

No prayer. No proof at all of calling upon the name of the Lord for salvation.

Anyone else?

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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This is a very important issue and Scripture makes it very simple:
But, Satan has used “religion” to gum it all up.

Here is what the Bible says about Salvation...... Romans 10:8-11
V.8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart:
that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
V.9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
V.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
V.11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

➀This tells us, that Salvation includes a “verbal declaration” from us!
➁And that declaration includes the name of Jesus!
➂While simultaneously believing in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead!
➃And(V.11), that those who truly believe, will not be ashamed to make this declaration!
➄Then Verses 13, tells us that this declaration, comes in the form of a “call”(appeal)!
------------------------
Oh, by the way: Verse 14, does not say what most people thinks it says!
When you carefully study verses 14-21, you will see that verse 14 is a rebellious challenge to God, by a “disobedient and gainsaying people”.
The fact is, the whole world stands “guilty” before God; Even if they have not been visited by a preacher, because of “natural revelation”(V.18).

 

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On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

No. I am not saying that at all.

Do you have an example of one person calling upon the name of the Lord to get saved?

Brother Pittman,

Do you accept the example of the publican in Luke 18:13-14 who called upon the Lord God to be merciful unto him a sinner, and who was justified before the Lord God thereby?

Do you accept the example of the malefactor in Luke 23:42-43 who called upon the Lord Jesus Christ to remember him (with mercy), and who was "saved" thereby?
 

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

There is no doctrine, if there is no example.

 Really???  Is that a foundational point of logic that you hold for all doctrinal promise and precept in God's Word?  You do realize that I can provide a number of such promises and precepts from God's Word wherein no specific example is recorded in Scripture as having occurred.  For example:

1.  The book of the Proverbs provides a number of instructions concerning the discipline of children  by their parents with the rod (spanking).  Yet I am not aware of a single example of such a practice actually being recorded in Scripture.

2.  In James 5:14 one who is sick among the believers of the church are instructed to "call for the elders of the church," that those elders might "pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord."  Yet I am not aware of a single example of such a practice actually being recorded in Scripture.
 

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

There is no doctrine, if there is no example.

Otherwise it is a made up teaching, and the verse of Romans 10:13 must mean something else other than someone getting saved by calling upon the name of the Lord.

No, there is not "a made up teaching" if the teaching is actually accurate to the text and context.  Even so, I presented my questions concerning Romans 10:13-14, as follows:

1.  Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as something that precedes the being saved?

2.  Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as a requirement for the being saved?

3.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the believing as something that precedes the calling upon the name of the Lord?

4.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the hearing as something that precedes the believing on the Lord?

5.  Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the preacher's preaching as something that precedes the hearing about the Lord?
 

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 9:33 AM, Genevanpreacher said:

(Btw, you might want to look up the original 1611 text and notice the deleted comma in this verse, if you are using the common 1769 edition.)

Did you mean the removal of the comma after the whosoever phrase, such as also in John 3:15, John 3:16, John 4:14, John 12:46, and Acts 10:43 (just to list a few)?

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
grammar
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14 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

What if you are totally unable to speak; what then?

 

I may be wrong but I don't believe anyone here is actually trying to say that an inability to communicate via known linguistic structure invalidates the heart's expression.

 

If you've had much interaction with anyone "vocally handicapped" then you know that they have no problem expressing their emotions or desires -- they just have a real hard time finding another person who can understand what they "said".

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14 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

I may be wrong but I don't believe anyone here is actually trying to say that an inability to communicate via known linguistic structure invalidates the heart's expression.

 

If you've had much interaction with anyone "vocally handicapped" then you know that they have no problem expressing their emotions or desires -- they just have a real hard time finding another person who can understand what they "said".

...and I never said that someone who could not speak cannot express themselves. The point was, not everyone can verbally call upon the name of the Lord, a nd some cannot express themselves at all., but they can believe with the heart. Case in point, if someone 'trapped inside their body'', such as world renown scientist Steven Hawking, were to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ", in his heart, it may be several minutes before he could type the message out with his eyebrows, facial expression or however he does it. At what point would he be saved?And what if a person doesn't have the financial means to use a high tech gizmo like Hawking has?  I think the calling on the Lord takes place IN THE HEART before it reaches the "mouth". BUT, if something  really DID happen in the heart, the mouth or some type of "expression" will follow. That's all I'm saying. You don't "Do" anything to be saved: you do things because you ARE saved.

Edited by heartstrings
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16 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

...and I never said that someone who could not speak cannot express themselves.

 I think the calling on the Lord takes place IN THE HEART before it reaches the "mouth". BUT, if something  really DID happen in the heart, the mouth or some type of "expression" will follow.

Your question sounded to me as if you thought others were teaching, "No verbalized prayer in my language, no salvation". Now IF someone was actually teaching that (may be but I doubt it), then my question would be whether "Mr. Jones" went to Hell after the heart cry (during the sermon) of "Yes, this Jesus and His salvation is what I need and want" due to the fact that he died of a heart attack in the center aisle of the church before someone could "deal with him" during the "invitation".

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33 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

If you've had much interaction with anyone "vocally handicapped" then you know that they have no problem expressing their emotions or desires -- they just have a real hard time finding another person who can understand what they "said".

Yet the Lord God Himself has no problem whatsoever in understanding what they "said," right?

19 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

The point was, not everyone can verbally call upon the name of the Lord, a nd some cannot express themselves at all., but they can believe with the heart.

Indeed!  And if they can "believe with the heart," they can also "call upon the name of the Lord" from the heart.  Romans 10:13 does NOT require an individually to physically speak forth a "call upon the name of the Lord" with the vocalizations of the mouth.  Yet it does require an individual to "call upon the name of the Lord" in some manner, and calling upon the Lord IS by definition a prayer.

19 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

I think the calling on the Lord takes place IN THE HEART before it reaches the "mouth". BUT, if something  really DID happen in the heart, the mouth or some type of "expression" will follow. That's all I'm saying. You don't "Do" anything to be saved: you do things because you ARE saved.

AMEN!  Although I myself would express that last statement a little differently -- You do not "DO" a verbalized prayer (or any other work, for that matter) to be saved; but the faith of a sinner's heart for salvation from the Savior is by definition a prayer-expression (call) from the heart for the Savior to save.  Indeed, I myself would say that salvation is by the call of faith.

Now, concerning a verbalized prayer -- When I am presenting the gospel unto a lost sinners, I communicate that eternal salvation is by God's grace through faith without works.  Furthermore, I communicate that they may express their faith upon the Savior by calling upon him from and in the heart for salvation.  However, I request that they might prayer their prayer out loud in order that I might have the privilege to hear it, since although the Lord is able to "hear" their heart, I myself am not able to do so.  Yet I also make certain to communicate that the words of prayer are not some type of "magical" words that save, since the prayer itself is not that which provides salvation.

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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To all,

Please understand that I did not enter this discussion actually to engage over the matter of asking the lost sinner to pray some form of verbalized prayer, or not.  Rather, I entered this discussion because some appeared to be striking against (?cancelling out?) the specific teaching of Romans 10:13.  I myself am not overly interested to engage in doctrinal bantering for doctrinal bantering's sake.  However, I am often moved with interest to engage in discussion (?debates?) over the correct grammatical, contextual, Biblical understanding of a given passage or passages of Scripture.  My concern in this particular discussion is just that with which I entered -- What does Romans 10:13 actually say (grammatically), and what does Romans 10:13 actually mean?  The statement of Romans 10:13 carries the very authority of God's Holy Word.  Whatever it says (grammatically) and means is THE TRUTH in this matter.

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32 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

Your question sounded to me as if you thought others were teaching, "No verbalized prayer in my language, no salvation". Now IF someone was actually teaching that (may be but I doubt it), then my question would be whether "Mr. Jones" went to Hell after the heart cry (during the sermon) of "Yes, this Jesus and His salvation is what I need and want" due to the fact that he died of a heart attack in the center aisle of the church before someone could "deal with him" during the "invitation".

Maybe so, or maybe it just sounded to me like a step one step two... thing .   Personally, I can only speak for myself. Jesus came in my heart the split second I believed and a verbal YELL in the form of "JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!" followed the next second or two, or maybe a nanosecond.. I bet some folks were freaked out, shocked, whatever but I didn't care. I don't believe in a #1 repent #2 believe #3 call, #4 ............or any variation of such. Anyway, interesting discussion. Maybe we all can learn something.

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1 hour ago, heartstrings said:

Maybe so, or maybe it just sounded to me like a step one step two... thing .   Personally, I can only speak for myself. Jesus came in my heart the split second I believed and a verbal YELL in the form of "JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!" followed the next second or two, or maybe a nanosecond.. I bet some folks were freaked out, shocked, whatever but I didn't care.

Haha, I like it -- gotta tell my wife, she'll love it!

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