Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted April 9, 2016 Members Share Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) Just some questions about Romans 10:13 itself: Romans 10:13 -- "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." 1. Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as something that precedes the being saved? 2. Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as a requirement for the being saved? Edited April 9, 2016 by Pastor Scott Markle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted April 9, 2016 Administrators Share Posted April 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Just some questions about Romans 10:13 itself: Romans 10:13 -- "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." 1. Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as something that precedes the being saved? 2. Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as a requirement for the being saved? I am not a grammarian by any means Bro. Scott. But in my unlearned opinion Romans 10:13 Means exactly what it says in plain English and nothing more or less. Pastor Scott Markle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Nicolaitans Posted April 9, 2016 Members Share Posted April 9, 2016 19 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said: I shall try brother. In our modern churches, there is this teaching that the Lord requires a person to ask him to save them. I don't see it in scripture. All through the Gospels before the cross, no one was required to pray, nor talk to Jesus, and ask him to save them. All through the books following the Gospels, no one ever prayed to the Lord save them. No where. Yes, the jailor in Acts did ask what he must do to get saved. It wasn't to pray. The eunuch asked why he couldn't be baptized. And others throughout the scriptures were told how to be saved. But never were the lost told to ask or pray for Jesus to save them. Salvation is by hearing and believing the word of God about Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for the redemption of those who cannot save themselves - which includes his resurrection of course, for only God can come back alive after death. That is what produces a born again child of God. The after effect is a relationship with God by calling upon his name and conversing with God himself. Not calling upon the Lord to save you. Look up the verses in the OT about calling upon God and you will see that it is a relationship of conversing with God, whom they already believed in. It is called prayer. Romans 10:13 ? For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord pray shall be saved. (?) Doesn't your definition negate what you were trying to say? Pastor Scott Markle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wretched Posted April 9, 2016 Members Share Posted April 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Jim_Alaska said: I am not a grammarian by any means Bro. Scott. But in my unlearned opinion Romans 10:13 Means exactly what it says in plain English and nothing more or less. I may be wrong but what I think GP is saying is opposing a verbal head acknowledgement and "sinners" prayer and standing for a true "calling" upon God in the heart that does not have to be verbal per se but it has to be born of the Spirit and from the heart only. There are no examples anywhere of a "sinners" prayer as commonly taught in the IFB sales classes. Certainly the verses you quote are a calling upon God, anyone can see that, but the gist is that it must be a heart calling from inside, whether an outward verbalization occurs or not. Once the heart calling occurs, then the verbal profession (to others) will come or it was not real. Have you ever met someone who remembers saying a "sinners" prayer at some point in their life but who never thought to warn their own loved ones of hell? Have you ever met someone who remembers saying a "sinners" prayer or who has "begun their relationship with Jesus" but when you show them from the Word something about sin like fornication or homo behavior they don't agree with it? Or that women cannot pastor, they don't agree with it? I have met these types above 1000s of times to one who profess but never changed. They got some religion but never changed. This type of "calling" is what is in opposition here IMO. heartstrings and John81 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted April 9, 2016 Members Share Posted April 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Just some questions about Romans 10:13 itself: Romans 10:13 -- "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." 1. Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as something that precedes the being saved? 2. Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as a requirement for the being saved? The very next verse gives your answer. I'm not too good at grammar, but I can compare scripture with scripture. The scriptures say that when one "believes", they "hath" everlasting life and they say that one cannot "call" until they've heard and believed. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? wretched 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted April 9, 2016 Members Share Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) 39 minutes ago, heartstrings said: The very next verse gives your answer. I'm not too good at grammar, but I can compare scripture with scripture. The scriptures say that when one "believes", they "hath" everlasting life and they say that one cannot "call" until they've heard and believed. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? So then, let me ask some questions about Romans 10:13 & 14: 1. Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as something that precedes the being saved? 2. Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as a requirement for the being saved? 3. Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the believing as something that precedes the calling upon the name of the Lord? 4. Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the hearing as something that precedes the believing on the Lord? 5. Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the preacher's preaching as something that precedes the hearing about the Lord? Or, were you seeking to communicate that the statements and teaching of John 5:24 & Romans 10:14 cancel out the statement and teaching of Romans 10:13? Edited April 9, 2016 by Pastor Scott Markle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted April 9, 2016 Members Share Posted April 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: So then, let me ask some questions about Romans 10:13 & 14: 1. Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as something that precedes the being saved? 2. Does Romans 10:13 grammatically present the calling upon the name of the Lord as a requirement for the being saved? 3. Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the believing as something that precedes the calling upon the name of the Lord? 4. Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the hearing as something that precedes the believing on the Lord? 5. Does Romans 10:14 grammatically present the preacher's preaching as something that precedes the hearing about the Lord? Or, were you seeking to communicate that the statements and teaching of John 5:24 & Romans 10:14 cancel out the statement and teaching of Romans 10:13? absolutely not. Pastor Scott Markle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted April 10, 2016 Administrators Share Posted April 10, 2016 On 4/8/2016 at 5:51 PM, Genevanpreacher said: 9 hours ago, wretched said: I may be wrong but what I think GP is saying is opposing a verbal head acknowledgement and "sinners" prayer and standing for a true "calling" upon God in the heart that does not have to be verbal per se but it has to be born of the Spirit and from the heart only. There are no examples anywhere of a "sinners" prayer as commonly taught in the IFB sales classes. Certainly the verses you quote are a calling upon God, anyone can see that, but the gist is that it must be a heart calling from inside, whether an outward verbalization occurs or not. Once the heart calling occurs, then the verbal profession (to others) will come or it was not real. Have you ever met someone who remembers saying a "sinners" prayer at some point in their life but who never thought to warn their own loved ones of hell? Have you ever met someone who remembers saying a "sinners" prayer or who has "begun their relationship with Jesus" but when you show them from the Word something about sin like fornication or homo behavior they don't agree with it? Or that women cannot pastor, they don't agree with it? I have met these types above 1000s of times to one who profess but never changed. They got some religion but never changed. This type of "calling" is what is in opposition here IMO. Bro. Wretched, I did understand Bro. Genevanpreacher's position in this matter. I also do not hold with any type of "easy believe" nonsense or silly sinners prayer type of witnessing. I have never been to any IFB sales classes and indeed have never even heard of such a thing. I was saved, taught and called to preach in an Independent Baptist Church. What I was specifically referencing in my reply was this that Genevanpreacher presented as a challenge: "One verse will prove me wrong. One verse that tells or shows someone praying to Jesus or speaking to Jesus and asking him to save them and him giving them salvation." I was in no way advocating the type of so called "soul winning" that I see so prevalent today. I am fully convinced that God, through His Holy Spirit is fully able to convict men of sin and their need for a Savior. God does not need any kind of salesmanship on the part of me or any so called "soul winner". I do hope that this clarifies my position as well as the real reason for the response I made to Bro. Genevanpreacher. Pastor Scott Markle and Ronda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted April 10, 2016 Moderators Share Posted April 10, 2016 If we are to call upon Jesus to be saved, what is the call then, but a call to be saved? It doesn't seem that hard. If the end result is being saved, should not the call be to that end? Otherwise what ARE we calling for? A ham on rye, hold the mayo? Pastor Scott Markle and Jim_Alaska 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Genevanpreacher Posted April 10, 2016 Author Members Share Posted April 10, 2016 A simple answer Bro. Scott. You get that simple answer, grammatically or not, by quoting one verse as a true example of someone in the NT doing that very thing. If there is no verse, there is no 'calling upon the name of the Lord' to get saved. Men have made up SO many false doctrines, not really doctrines at all, but just like in Galatians 1, they have preached another Gospel, not a real Gospel, but they have perverted the Gospel of Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted April 10, 2016 Members Share Posted April 10, 2016 Just now, Genevanpreacher said: A simple answer Bro. Scott. You get that simple answer, grammatically or not, by quoting one verse as a true example of someone in the NT doing that very thing. If there is no verse, there is no 'calling upon the name of the Lord' to get saved. Men have made up SO many false doctrines, not really doctrines at all, but just like in Galatians 1, they have preached another Gospel, not a real Gospel, but they have perverted the Gospel of Christ. Ahhh. So then, are you seeking to communicate that if I cannot produce a second verse, specifically one that shows an example of a person "calling upon the name of the Lord" and being saved through that call, THEN we can cancel out the teaching of Romans 10:13? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Genevanpreacher Posted April 10, 2016 Author Members Share Posted April 10, 2016 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said: Ahhh. So then, are you seeking to communicate that if I cannot produce a second verse, specifically one that shows an example of a person "calling upon the name of the Lord" and being saved through that call, THEN we can cancel out the teaching of Romans 10:13? No. I am not saying that at all. Do you have an example of one person calling upon the name of the Lord to get saved? There is no doctrine, if there is no example. Otherwise it is a made up teaching, and the verse of Romans 10:13 must mean something else other than someone getting saved by calling upon the name of the Lord. (Btw, you might want to look up the original 1611 text and notice the deleted comma in this verse, if you are using the common 1769 edition.) Edited April 10, 2016 by Genevanpreacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted April 10, 2016 Administrators Share Posted April 10, 2016 This is getting a bit childish GP. If we have to have the exact words you insist on, I believe we can look to Peter's plea that is duly recorded as Scripture in the NT. Mat. 14:30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. 31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? Ronda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ronda Posted April 10, 2016 Members Share Posted April 10, 2016 (edited) Just wondering how Romans 10:13 can be the basis without looking 4 verses up from it to verse 9 which tell us how it is done: Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Pretty clear (to me anyways) that "confessing with the mouth" AND believing in the heart actually IS calling upon the Lord for salvation. Edited April 10, 2016 by Ronda spelling John Young and Ukulelemike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted April 10, 2016 Administrators Share Posted April 10, 2016 I might also caution that it looks like we are getting into a bit of "thread drift" here. Brother Donald's OP asked a very specific question, and that question was, "Is Repentance part of the Gospel?" Having said that, I find that I am also guilty of contributing to this "thread drift". In this respect I would suggest that if we need to continue with another subject such as is found in Romans 10:13 we need to open a new thread with this Scripture as its basis. Ronda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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