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Why hide if you have the truth?


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I became a beleiver as a Seperated  KJV-Onlyists Independent Fundamentalst Baptist 26 years ago. I always heard through preaching and teaching that we were to be living a holy, separated life.

For years as I read in the Gospels and in the books of Acts, I actually saw Jesus and the disciples in Acts, actually doing the opposite; I actually saw them engaging the culture around them. I would question this and never heard a sufficient answer to my questions. I was also taught to never read anything from a Reformed writer. Calvin, Luther and Sproul were off limits.

my parents, both unbelievers, used to say, "If you have the truth, you have nothing to be afraid of." So why should I not read something if they are wrong? Shouldn't I be able to pick apart their argument and see where their inconsistency lies? 

a while back I posted a question about Apologetics which garnered little response. That spoke volumes to me. You see, I heard James White interviewed and he made the claim IFB do not engage in debates because the KJV Only stance is flawed and any scholarly argument can tear it apart. I have searched the Internet(YouTube)  to fund this out, to see if there are any debates between Muslims and IFB; Roman Catholics etc, and there are none. I started a post, nobody posted any videos. none. Somebody mentions David Cloud, but all there is David having a monologue, no dialogue with the other side. So as I ask, as my parents use to say,  If you have the truth, what do you have to be afraid of?

This website truly saddens me, there is no room for thought, engaging in any type of debate of thought or ideas. People are silenced or kicked off.

unfortunatley, the IFB-KJV movement I came up in, is considered a joke and a punchline to jokes. It is looked down on for its unwillingness to engaged the culture around it. I know, you are to be "holy separated", that doesn't mean running from a culture. Which the IFB has done. I have come here to encourage, engage and interact with a part of my past. I guess the old saying is true, " You can never go home again"

I know I'll probably be "asked" to leave again, that's ok, I'm in a far better place now.

Jeffrey Leonard Sylvia.

 

 

 

 

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We should separate from churches with false teachers.  That is false gospels or no gospel.  The Archbishop of Canterbury was in Africa a couple of days ago for a conference.  I heard climate change mentioned and the immigrant crisis and various other worldly matters, but nothing about the bible, the gospel or Christ.   The only time I heard him mention Christ was when he was talking about his father not being the man he thought and then he said, something like  "I am what I am because I am in Christ." 

We walk in the world and we get our feet dirty and we need to go to the Lord for cleaning, 

1 ¶  Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
2  And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray him;
3  Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
4  He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
5  After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples’ feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.
6  Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
7  Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
8  Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9  Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10  Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

We have to reach the world with the gospel, but we should't get involved with the world.
 

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Engaging the lost around us and maintaining separation are compatible with Scripture. Christians are to take the Gospel to the lost, which we see Jesus and the Apostles did. At the same time they maintained separation: they maintained their Christian identity, they didn't entangle themselves in the world.

As to debates and discussions on this forum, oftentimes it's the bad, obnoxious, inconsiderate, uncivil tone and wording of posts by one or more involved that ruins a thread, gets a thread locked, gets someone warned or kicked out, rather than the actual topic at hand.

 

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6 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Does this mean that you are Christ Follower, aka Leonard Sylvia, aka Jeffrey2.0, aka Jeffrey, aka Mr. Mojo Rison, aka some athletic name that I don't remember right now?

I don't think I used an athletic name before.

5 hours ago, John81 said:

Engaging the lost around us and maintaining separation are compatible with Scripture. Christians are to take the Gospel to the lost, which we see Jesus and the Apostles did. At the same time they maintained separation: they maintained their Christian identity, they didn't entangle themselves in the world.

As to debates and discussions on this forum, oftentimes it's the bad, obnoxious, inconsiderate, uncivil tone and wording of posts by one or more involved that ruins a thread, gets a thread locked, gets someone warned or kicked out, rather than the actual topic at hand.

 

John, I always appreciated your posts and you attitude. You are always considerate and give thought to your posts.

i agree with you. We do maintain our righteousness in high regard. But Scripture is clear that we are to abstain from brothers who are not living right, via church discipline. Or as Paul said, we would have to leave this world to get away from sinners. As Paul said in Romans 7, we can't help but sin, our flesh is sinful. And that is why Christ washed the disciples feet. Their feet would pick up the dirt of this world.

 

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3 hours ago, Christ Follower said:

I don't think I used an athletic name before.

Okay...maybe you just changed your avatar to a football helmet at one time?

Why are you so interested in debates? They rarely (if ever) pursuade one party to change their views/beliefs, and generally only serve to feed the flesh and stir up strife. James White has never convinced me that the King James only position is wrong or in error. The only thing that he has convinced me of is that he's prideful.

I'll be the first to admit that there are problems with IFBs; however, they're not alone. There are problems with each and every denomination, movement, sect, etc. IFBs may be a laughing stock to others (I laugh at some of the things I see within the IFB movement myself); however, that doesn't negate what they're right about. James White, MacArthur, Sproul, you or any other Reformed believer can convince me that I'm wrong about salvation, the version issue, or any preterist view.

You said that part of your reason for coming here was to encourage others; however, your past here tells a different story. You came to debate and try to convince IFBs that they are wrong. Perhaps you came to "encourage" others toward Reformed doctrine? My days of debating are over. I get nothing from it. In fact, the Bible speaks against it. I still get into discussions from time to time, but even that's becoming more rare these days.

If anything, remember this...you will never convince anyone that they're wrong by putting them down...you probably didn't help yourself by the James White laughing stock quote.

 

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17 hours ago, John81 said:
8 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Okay...maybe you just changed your avatar to a football helmet at one time?

Why are you so interested in debates? They rarely (if ever) pursuade one party to change their views/beliefs, and generally only serve to feed the flesh and stir up strife. James White has never convinced me that the King James only position is wrong or in error. The only thing that he has convinced me of is that he's prideful.

I'll be the first to admit that there are problems with IFBs; however, they're not alone. There are problems with each and every denomination, movement, sect, etc. IFBs may be a laughing stock to others (I laugh at some of the things I see within the IFB movement myself); however, that doesn't negate what they're right about. James White, MacArthur, Sproul, you or any other Reformed believer can convince me that I'm wrong about salvation, the version issue, or any preterist view.

You said that part of your reason for coming here was to encourage others; however, your past here tells a different story. You came to debate and try to convince IFBs that they are wrong. Perhaps you came to "encourage" others toward Reformed doctrine? My days of debating are over. I get nothing from it. In fact, the Bible speaks against it. I still get into discussions from time to time, but even that's becoming more rare these days.

If anything, remember this...you will never convince anyone that they're wrong by putting them down...you probably didn't help yourself by the James White laughing stock quote.

 

 

I never said that James White said that. Please re-read my post, I called it a joke. And I didn't call it that to be insulting: rather than to show what I run into when I talk with other believers and I tell them about myself. James White said it could never stand up to scholarly scrutiny.

and actually, I do believe debates do accomplish much. It forced one to consider other veiw points. To truly engage with people and to truly represent them and understand their argument, you have to know their viewpoint. Too many times we as beleivers, we just blast them without truly hearing them. Now, admit it, if you were arguing with somebody and they were not representing you correctly, you would shut down the discussion and not listen, right? Well, other people do the same.

You can read in Scripture were the disciples debated. It's littered throughout.

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You're right...I was on my phone (as I am now), and I hate using a phone to post with...

I meant to separate James White and the laughing stock quote (which is the same as being a joke and a punchline of jokes). It should have read "the James White and laughing stock quotes".

Still...my mistake whether on a phone or not. I apologize.

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23 hours ago, Christ Follower said:

I know I'll probably be "asked" to leave again

Jeffrey Leonard Sylvia.

Just so there is no misunderstanding, the following has NOTHING to do with the KJV, White, or whatever else you mentioned in your posts (I'm not backing up to re-read them because it is not relevant to the subject of this post.)

 

There are warnings, temporary suspensions and bans (permanent). I don't know who banned you, I don't know why they did and honestly, I don't even care.

While you are to be commended for being up front with who you are (as was Ian Day), it doesn't change the fact that if you were banned it doesn't matter how many names you wish to create.

 

Here is the way to be allowed back - appeal to the owner (Bro. Matt). If Bro. Matt allows you (or any other banned individual) back, it doesn't matter if a mod or other member doesn't agree, it's Bro. Matt's site. Is that really all that hard to understand?????? If he doesn't get back on your e-mail or PM or whatever for few weeks, so what?? Your house ain't burning down, you're not bleeding out, the bill ain't past due, you ain't dying. He's busy with real life.

 

This has NOTHING to do with anything posted, this has to do with your presence here after being banned without first obtaining proper re-admittance (you know, "Go talk to the boss [Bro. Matt]")

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Here is my thing with debates: If you are not a 'good debater', even having the truth, you will often lose to a good debater. People who learn the art of debate are taught how to even debate things they don't believe in, because true debating is about winning the debate, not convincing of truth. I am rock solid in by beliefs, and don't fear reading the writings of others I disagree with, but I shun debates, because I am a preacher, not a debater.

Now, having been myself an IFB for the last 31 years, I have to say that I have never been told not to engage the lost-it is the lost to whom we are called, so that would be ridiculous. But we are not to participate in the things of the world. So I can have friends who are drinkers, but I don't go drinking with them-my goal is to seek to show Christ in my life, and I can't see Christ hanging at the Buck Inn, sipping a brewski while discussing theology. What we DID see with Christ was people, (Pharisees and Publicans, et al,) inviting Jesus and His disciples to their HOMES for SUPPER, where Jesus would speak to them about His Father-and this was, in fact, the reason they invited Him over to their homes-they knew He was a teacher and desired to know what He taught. And Paul would resort to where prayer was wont to be made, and would speak to them about Jesus Christ.

Now I WILL advise newer believers away from certain writers because they haven't yet practiced discernment enough to be able to properly see the careful, subtle errors that some writers sneak into their books. I will also recommend our whole church away from certain books, primarily because its not our job to read every piece of trash out there. I was very dismayed to see how many pastor's wives were so taken by The Shack-what a piece of trash! Blasphemous, yet so emotionally-driven that people just thought it was wonderful. But I in no way have ever forbidden anyone from anything-ultimately they need to make that final decision between themselves and the Lord.

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4 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

 

Just so there is no misunderstanding, the following has NOTHING to do with the KJV, White, or whatever else you mentioned in your posts (I'm not backing up to re-read them because it is not relevant to the subject of this post.)

 

There are warnings, temporary suspensions and bans (permanent). I don't know who banned you, I don't know why they did and honestly, I don't even care.

While you are to be commended for being up front with who you are (as was Ian Day), it doesn't change the fact that if you were banned it doesn't matter how many names you wish to create.

 

Here is the way to be allowed back - appeal to the owner (Bro. Matt). If Bro. Matt allows you (or any other banned individual) back, it doesn't matter if a mod or other member doesn't agree, it's Bro. Matt's site. Is that really all that hard to understand?????? If he doesn't get back on your e-mail or PM or whatever for few weeks, so what?? Your house ain't burning down, you're not bleeding out, the bill ain't past due, you ain't dying. He's busy with real life.

 

This has NOTHING to do with anything posted, this has to do with your presence here after being banned without first obtaining proper re-admittance (you know, "Go talk to the boss [Bro. Matt]")

You just proved my point

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1 hour ago, Christ Follower said:

You just proved my point

No, actually I didn't  ----- please read s-l-o-w-l-y and c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y. It wouldn't matter if you were banned for saying Catholic doctrine on salvation will send you to Hell, your ONLY recourse for re-admission would be "Talk to the owner".

If a job site superintendent said that your drywall company wasn't allowed on the site then it wouldn't matter if you changed the name of the company and repainted the trucks -- you and your drywallers would be forbidden. Your ONLY recourse would be to go to the top of the chain -- the OWNER of the property.

Now, you can tell people you were thrown out again because of a doctrinal disagreement (or whatever other lie you want to tell), but you are leaving (in an hour or less) because you REFUSE to seek re-admission properly (through Bro. Matt).

I would ask if you were born this stupid or if it was an acquired trait, but I'll refrain.

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40 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

No, actually I didn't  ----- please read s-l-o-w-l-y and c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y. It wouldn't matter if you were banned for saying Catholic doctrine on salvation will send you to Hell, your ONLY recourse for re-admission would be "Talk to the owner".

If a job site superintendent said that your drywall company wasn't allowed on the site then it wouldn't matter if you changed the name of the company and repainted the trucks -- you and your drywallers would be forbidden. Your ONLY recourse would be to go to the top of the chain -- the OWNER of the property.

Now, you can tell people you were thrown out again because of a doctrinal disagreement (or whatever other lie you want to tell), but you are leaving (in an hour or less) because you REFUSE to seek re-admission properly (through Bro. Matt).

I would ask if you were born this stupid or if it was an acquired trait, but I'll refrain.

Nice...refraining. Lol

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2 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Here is my thing with debates: If you are not a 'good debater', even having the truth, you will often lose to a good debater. People who learn the art of debate are taught how to even debate things they don't believe in, because true debating is about winning the debate, not convincing of truth. I am rock solid in by beliefs, and don't fear reading the writings of others I disagree with, but I shun debates, because I am a preacher, not a debater.

Now, having been myself an IFB for the last 31 years, I have to say that I have never been told not to engage the lost-it is the lost to whom we are called, so that would be ridiculous. But we are not to participate in the things of the world. So I can have friends who are drinkers, but I don't go drinking with them-my goal is to seek to show Christ in my life, and I can't see Christ hanging at the Buck Inn, sipping a brewski while discussing theology. What we DID see with Christ was people, (Pharisees and Publicans, et al,) inviting Jesus and His disciples to their HOMES for SUPPER, where Jesus would speak to them about His Father-and this was, in fact, the reason they invited Him over to their homes-they knew He was a teacher and desired to know what He taught. And Paul would resort to where prayer was wont to be made, and would speak to them about Jesus Christ.

Now I WILL advise newer believers away from certain writers because they haven't yet practiced discernment enough to be able to properly see the careful, subtle errors that some writers sneak into their books. I will also recommend our whole church away from certain books, primarily because its not our job to read every piece of trash out there. I was very dismayed to see how many pastor's wives were so taken by The Shack-what a piece of trash! Blasphemous, yet so emotionally-driven that people just thought it was wonderful. But I in no way have ever forbidden anyone from anything-ultimately they need to make that final decision between themselves and the Lord.

This is why I prefer discussions. An actual debate is at least two sides trying to argue their point while typically trying to refute the others. In such there really isn't an openness to the other sides positions or openness to accept the other sides arguments regardless if they are valid or not. In a debate one side typically listens to the other sides argument with the intent of finding holes, gaffes, mistakes, any weakness that can be exploited to attack that side and bolster their own.

In a discussion, an actual discussion not a debate called a discussion, the parties actually tend to listen to one another with the intent of coming to the truth or getting at the facts no matter who turns out to be right or wrong in their original position.

Unfortunately, many these days won't discuss, they only want to debate or simply argue.

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