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Forgive?


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Not sure what catagory this should be in.

Do you ever hope that someone doesn’t get saved, so they can go to hell and get punished for what they did?

I used to take comfort in knowing that justice will be dealt out by God on Judgement day and in hell.

And child rapists well get a just reward from the hand of the Lord, but then the thought came to me, if that child rapist gets saved, then they won’t get a just reward. I recently met a Christian from one town along, he was telling me all his relatives, and making excuse for the last one he mentioned when he said his name, it was the same name as a bloke who many years ago when drunk took a car that wasn’t his and hit my brother who was out cycling, my brother was in intensive care and suffers some long term trauma, on effect was that he never wanted to learn to drive in case he ever had an accident and killed or injured someone.

It was a little awkward when he mentioned that, how would it have went if he was the drunk driver who almost killed my brother?

Thanks for your prayers, always appreciated.

 

Edited by Old-Pilgrim
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I have no doubt earlier in my walk with the Lord I would have had similar or worse thoughts.

In recent years I've faced some similar battles that took much prayer and time in the Word to get me to sincerely pray for their salvation. It's bad when someone seriously causes you harm, but it's so exponentially worse when someone causes harm to someone we love.

All can be saved, murderers, rapists, government leaders who have brought about mass rape and murder.

Apart from Christ we all deserve hell. Even our "smallest" sin condemns us to hell without Christ. As Jesus said, who loves more, the one forgiven the least or the one forgiven the most?

Even if a person commits a vile crime, and at some point are born again in Christ, that simply means they are spared the same hell we have been spared from. It doesn't mean there won't be other consequences. As we see with King David, who committed adultery and murder against a noble, trustworthy man. God spared King David's life but yet the consequences of his sin rippled throughout his family and caused much heartache, pain and death.

The Lord commands us to forgive. In some cases that can be relatively easy, yet in cases such as you mention that may be very difficult. We do have the assurance the Lord won't allow more to come upon us than we can handle. Commit yourself to prayer and time in the Word concerning these matters. Admit to the Lord (He already knows!) your frustration, your anger, your difficulty in forgiving, and ask the Lord for the help you need in this area. Be consistent in this and the Lord will bring you through.

I still marvel when I read of the response of Job when so much tragedy hit him in one day, including the death of all his children. While I don't think I've reached that level, I know I'm closer now than I once was and it's all by the grace of God, His instruction, His leading, His helping hand.

You, those involved and these matters are in my prayers. May the Lord hold you up, steady you, as you work your way through this dark valley.

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Not sure what catagory this should be in.

Do you ever hope that someone doesn’t get saved, so they can go to hell and get punished for what they did?

I used to take comfort in knowing that justice will be dealt out by God on Judgement day and in hell.

And child rapists well get a just reward from the hand of the Lord, but then the thought came to me, if that child rapist gets saved, then they won’t get a just reward. I recently met a Christian from one town along, he was telling me all his relatives, and making excuse for the last one he mentioned when he said his name, it was the same name as a bloke who many years ago when drunk took a car that wasn’t his and hit my brother who was out cycling, my brother was in intensive care and suffers some long term trauma, on effect was that he never wanted to learn to drive in case he ever had an accident and killed or injured someone.

It was a little awkward when he mentioned that, how would it have went if he was the drunk driver who almost killed my brother?

I recently found out that my daughter was raped as a child, when she was about 6 or 7, perhaps it is a good thing that she won’t tell me who it was. But I do find myself hopping that he never hears the Gospel and gets saved.

 

Strange feeling, ain't it

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A bitter pill to swallow:

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

I just picked a few here... 
"Be ye angry and sin not".... He knows we WILL be angry, we will have righteous anger for things which are sinful whether done to ourselves or done to those we love.
BUT "sin not"... that's the hard part. 
Is it sinful to wish another person ill will? To imagine actually murdering another person? Even if the ANGER is righteous... the sinful thoughts of retribution and "repayment" are sinful.

We see in Matthew 5:28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

This tells us thinking of an sinful action is like committing the sin itself.

Matthew 15:19-20 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man..."

Out of the heart... these thoughts come about before the action. Even if we wouldn't commit the sin (for instance, murder), we have thought about it. 

Romans 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
20 "Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head."
21 "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."

These are not easy things to do. Forgiveness requires something so deep we cannot fully do it ourselves, we have to ask the Lord to help us. 
AND forgiveness doesn't mean allowing that person who hurt us (or hurt someone we love, or an innocent or helpless victim) to be close enough to do the act again.
But we do have to remember... God forgave us ALL sins when we accepted/believed upon Christ for salvation. We didn't do anything to deserve it. Grace is unmerited favor.
We are not perfect as the Lord is, we cannot truly offer others grace (unmerited)... often times we hold grudges even over petty things, and we could all do better there as well as in the "bigger" things where there was true injustice done by an evil/unrepentant sinner.

But the final 2 things to consider:
"Vengeance is mine; I will repay"... It's God's "job", it's not our "job" to repay, and we are told NOT to.
And the second thing to consider is this: 1 Tim 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
Jesus offers salvation to ALL... God wants ALL to come to Him. We know they won't, but we should never wish that another person will "rot in hell" or not be saved. That is going against God's very will!!!
Dangerous ground.

Can we always overcome our sin nature and forgive others as we should? I shamefully admit, I myself struggle with some horrors committed not just on myself but on loved ones (which are even harder to forgive).
We need to take these thoughts to the Lord right away when we have them... admit we are angry and HAVE sinned (thinking ill will towards others, especially when/if we think murderous thoughts or desire that they will go to hell for eternity IS sin). God is the one who metes out righteous judgment. We are not in His position, nor should we ever think we know better than He does.

 

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One of the most freeing things I have ever experienced was to forgive a family member for committing a crime against one of my children.  Only by God's grace, mercy, and workmanship could the act of truly forgiving take place.  Indeed we should love, pray for, and bless our "enemies" (including family members) out of obedience to the Word...and to be pleasing and glorifying to our Lord.  When the Lord Jesus worked forgiveness into my heart....He also filled me with His love to such depth for the one that had committed the crime...that it's nothing short of miraculously amazing!  Even though my relationship with that family member was never the same after that....because of that forgiveness, I was free to love that one without reservation.  A quote that I shared in my testimony is a good one to remember: "Forgiveness is not forgetting, forgiveness is remembering it forgiven."  I'm sooooo glad that the Lord is so wondrously forgiving, and I want to grow to become more and more like Him!

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