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From the very beginning(Genesis 3:1), the target of Satan’s attack has not been on the institution of the Church, but on the Church’s foundation; God’s Word, ... “Yea, hath God said?”

The “subtle attack”, that this thread is about is the lie, that Luke was a gentile!
On the surface, this may not seem like a very important issue or question; But the door that this opens, is very important.

If a Believer is convinced that Luke was a gentile, the door that this opens, is the lie that everything that God used Luke to write, will be influenced by the fact that He is a gentile.
------------------------
The Lord foresaw this lie, therefore he gave us Luke 1:1-4
V.1 ¶ Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
V.2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
V.3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
V.4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

On the surface, this passage seems to support the notion, that the book of Luke, was influenced by Luke’s personal opinions....
“Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word”

This appears to be saying, that Luke was going to relay to Theophilus, information that he had acquired by interviews with “eyewitnesses”.  But just as with the rest of the entire Bible, you need to dig deeper(pay closer attention), to get the truth about what is being said.  

Therefore, it becomes clear when you closely study verses 1-4, that Verse 2, is talking about all the secular writings about the Lord and His life that were being written.  But then we come to verses 3 & 4.  In Luke 1:3, Luke tells us, that what he says in Luke, comes from a “perfect understanding of all things”.  

By the way, no human being can have “a perfect understanding of all things”!  We are all sinners and all of “our opinions” have been tainted by sin!  Therefore, where did Luke get this “perfect understanding”.  Look at the next 4 words, “from the very first”.  These 4 English words, are translated from 1 Greek word(anothen), and in this context, that means “from the LORD”!

Other places you find this word is.......
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." (John 3:7)
and
"Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." (John 19:11)
------------------------
Therefore the LORD used Luke to give us GOD’S WORDS, not man’s words!
And if we can be convinced that Luke was a Gentile, than this is a subtle attack on God’s Word!

 

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Why does it matter who Luke was? He was just the one giving the info to Theo.

The reference about the 'holy oracles' was speaking about God's people in the OT, not the Apostles and Disciples of the NT.

I have heard he was a gentile for years, but that doesn't make him one.

As a gentile means someone who is not a Jew, in most modern thinking, then he could still be an Israelite from another tribe. Since Jews weren't mentioned til later in the OT timeline, anyone from the tribes of Israel could be a 'carrier' of the word of God.

I think nit picking is wrong and a waste of time. There is NO evidence that the Book of Luke or Acts was influenced by WHO Luke was. It is by the Spirit of God that the scriptures exist!

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You said, Donald -

"By the way, no human being can have “a perfect understanding of all things”!  We are all sinners and all of “our opinions” have been tainted by sin!  Therefore, where did Luke get this “perfect understanding”.  Look at the next 4 words, “from the very first”.  These 4 English words, are translated from 1 Greek word(anothen), and in this context, that means “from the LORD”! "

 

    The above section of your post is not a correct understanding of what Luke was saying.

   He is just stating he searched it out til he had all the correct information. Not any special spiritual magic.

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Every book of the Bible was written by inspiration of God. None of the books of the Bible are simply mans opinion or preferences regardless of who the writer is.

I've heard far more attacks against the Bible regarding Paul than Luke. So many try to claim Paul's personal bias and preference heavily influence his letters. Naturally this leads some to declare those parts of Paul's letters can be, and should be rejected. Also, naturally, these people declare themselves able to tell what portions of Paul's letters are from God and that which Paul added on his own.

In both cases, Paul and Luke (and all biblical writers) the author must be accepted as the Holy Ghost and that which they wrote as perfect, without error, from God.

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Luke was a Jew with, for whatever reason, a Gentile name.

John the Baptist was a Jew with a Gentile name.

John the Apostle was a Jew with a Gentile name.

Paul the Apostle was a Jew with a Gentile name.

The scriptures plainly state that all of the writers of the scriptures, "the oracles of God," were Jews. "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God." Romans 3:1 & 2

Donald was entirely correct. To claim that Luke was a Gentile is a subtle attempt to undermine the scriptures. Donald, thank you very much for your post. We commend you. :goodpost: Keep up the good work! :clap:

 

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What does Romans 3:1&2 have to do with Luke? He was not one of the 2 Peter 1:21 guys. Those were men from "old time", from the OT and did not refer to the NT guys. The 2 Peter 1:21 prophets are who were referred to as those that were committed the oracles of God.

I don't see any undermining of Lukes authority to portray the true Gospel story at all.

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What does Romans 3:1&2 have to do with Luke? He was not one of the 2 Peter 1:21 guys. Those were men from "old time", from the OT and did not refer to the NT guys. The 2 Peter 1:21 prophets are who were referred to as those that were committed the oracles of God.

I don't see any undermining of Lukes authority to portray the true Gospel story at all.

God made a declaration...his oracles were entrusted to the Jews. There is no indication in scripture that the Lord ever changed to whom he would entrust his oracles; therefore, all oracles of God were committed unto the Jews. In fact, that declaration has no time stamp. The oracles of God were committed unto the Jews.

Just as God also set the standard for how those oracles would be conveyed...through holy men as they were moved by the Holy Ghost...he set the standard and declared who those holy men would be...Jews. We have no indication in scripture that God ever chose anyone other than holy men who were Jews.

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Ok, first, "unto them were committed the oracles of God", does not mean those men were the one's who wrote them nor the one's who spoke with the Lord. The scriptures were entrusted to them for them to pass on to the next generation.

The scriptures were committed to their trust.

If it weren't for God using the believing Jews, actually the tribe of Levi who were part of the Jews, made up of Judah, Benjamin, and some of Levi, (the one's who were dedicated to really following the Lord), we would have no OT. (Since all the other tribes were scattered all over the place and the scriptures couldn't be committed to their trust.) 

And if it weren't for the dedicated believer's in the Lord Jesus, to whom the Lord trusted down the centuries til now, we wouldn't have the NT scriptures.

The scriptures are committed to our trust now. So the verse is not saying that the Lord used only Jewish men to write his word, but to carry it on for the prophets who wrote them. Those prophets being Israelites and not just Jews.

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It was you that drew the parallel between the two verses regarding the oracles of God and holy men of old. As such, I then expounded upon the thought that you introduced...not only drawing the parallel, but tying the two together also.

Now you've introduced another thought...

The difference today is that God is no longer inspiring men to record new revelation (unless you're a sadly deluded Charismatic). His written word is finished. There is no more inspiration. While God's word was being given, it was given under inspiration to Jewish men. He entrusted them with his word...no one else. He entrusted them to write it and keep it. We are now instructed by God to share his word with the world.

If someone wants to believe that Luke was a Gentile, that's their prerogative. If someone wants to believe that Hebrews was written by a woman (as has been put forth on this forum in the past), that's also their prerogative. Scriptural evidence is that God used Jewish men and Jewish men only to record his inspired word. If one wants to believe that only refers to the Old Testament writings, that's also their prerogative. I find that God set a standard in his word...to use holy men...holy Jewish men...and I see no scriptural reason (or proof) that God deviated from the standard that he set.

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From the very beginning(Genesis 3:1), the target of Satan’s attack has not been on the institution of the Church, but on the Church’s foundation; God’s Word, ... “Yea, hath God said?”

True.

The “subtle attack”, that this thread is about is the lie, that Luke was a gentile!

So what if he was?  

On the surface, this may not seem like a very important issue or question;

It's not

But the door that this opens, is very important.

It isn't.

If a Believer is convinced that Luke was a gentile, the door that this opens, is the lie that everything that God used Luke to write, will be influenced by the fact that He is a gentile.

I have no problem with Luke's potential status as a gentile being an influence upon him.  By any reasonable measure, Mark, the Evangelist of the oldest gospel was at least nominally a gentile, and not every word of Scripture was originally penned by a Jew.

There is no doubt that the influence of the original human author is prevalent throughout the Scripture.  God uses humans, real humans, and they aren't all the same.

The Lord foresaw this lie, therefore he gave us Luke 1:1-4
V.1 ¶ Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
V.2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
V.3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
V.4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

On the surface, this passage seems to support the notion, that the book of Luke, was influenced by Luke’s personal opinions....
No, Luke refers to previous accounts as authentic.  He refers to the original accounts as accurate and he explains that he is setting forth (since he has perfect understanding of things from the first) to render a further accurate account of those same events.

Luke no where implies that it is influenced by personal opinions......

That's nowhere in the text.

“Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word”

This appears to be saying, that Luke was going to relay to Theophilus, information that he had acquired by interviews with “eyewitnesses”

It appears that Luke was saying that......

because that is exactly what Luke is actually saying.

I'll take Luke at his word.  I'll take God at his word, and that is exactly what Luke said in so many words.  He is referring to accounts from eyewitnesses.  Nothing wrong with that.

But just as with the rest of the entire Bible, you need to dig deeper(pay closer attention), to get the truth about what is being said.  

As with the rest of the entire Bible, you need to accept what is written in its most basic and clear and simple meaning and believe it.  "Digging deeper" is often the catalyst to heresy.

Therefore, it becomes clear when you closely study verses 1-4, that Verse 2, is talking about all the secular writings about the Lord and His life that were being written

There were few or no "secular" writings abour the Lord and his life at that time.  No respectable New Testament Historian or Theologian will tell you that "secular" writings about Christ were extant until the middle of the second century....long after Luke wrote his treatise.

But then we come to verses 3 & 4.  InLuke 1:3, Luke tells us, that what he says in Luke, comes from a “perfect understanding of all things”.  

Yes, because Luke has done his homework.  Luke knows what he's talking about.  He's insisting on it; Scripture writers do this all the time.

By the way, no human being can have “a perfect understanding of all things”! 

No kidding, was Luke then, actually claiming to have a "perfect understanding of ALL THINGS"...or more reasonably was he referring to his perfect understanding of the life and teachings of Christ?  Did Luke know "all things"?  Is that his claim? I doubt it, he was simply saying that he had an accurate account of the life and teachings of Christ as, that's all he is setting out to do.

We are all sinners and all of “our opinions” have been tainted by sin! 

Are you of the opinion that 2+2=4?

Were you of that selfsame opinion before you were saved?

If so, was it therefore tainted by sin and therefore not to be believed?

Are you of the same opinion about the sum of 2 and 2 as you were prior to salvation?

If an unregenerate historian insists that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was crucified by Pontius Pilate in roughly 30 A.D. are we to ignore him and insist that that did not occur inasmuch as his opinions were tainted by sin?

Therefore, where did Luke get this “perfect understanding”.  Look at the next 4 words, “from the very first”.  These 4 English words, are translated from 1 Greek word(anothen), and in this context, that means “from the LORD”!

Other places you find this word is.......
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." (
John 3:7)
and
"Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." (
John 19:11)

It's also used rather generically in Matthew 27:51 meaning merely and simply "from the top"....

Mat 27:51

And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Or "from the beginnning" or as Luke is using it...form "eyewitnesses" from the beginning as he stated so very clearly.

Luke knows that his account is "from original sources", from the "eyewitnesses" according to the apostles who were "at the first" and "from the top" and "from the Lord" etc....

No reason to dig deeper than that.
Therefore the LORD used Luke to give us GOD’S WORDS, not man’s words!

Agreed..............but why must "God's words and 'man's words" always conflict?  God can superintend the work of a man such that the Scriptures are both inspired and also CONFLUENT.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/men-moved-by-the-holy-spirit-spoke-from-god

Maybe God superintended Luke's work and writing in such a way that God ensured that Luke (even if he was a gentile) related the story perfectly and clearly?

And if we can be convinced that Luke was a Gentile, than this is a subtle attack on God’s Word!

Only if the Scriptures somewhere state that only a Jew can pen down words of Scripture, a passage I've no where seen.  Maybe Luke is confident in his work and words since he knows them to be true (anothen) and he's done his homework.

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And if it weren't for the dedicated believer's in the Lord Jesus, to whom the Lord trusted down the centuries til now, we wouldn't have the NT scriptures.

The scriptures are committed to our trust now. So the verse is not saying that the Lord used only Jewish men to write his word, but to carry it on for the prophets who wrote them. 

YUP!

I've no idea where this "only Jews can pen Scripture" idea comes from.

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I color coded words to make a point to show that I would have to disagree with everything that  has been said that Luke had to be a jew. Here are the words used to convey such an argument to portray him as a jew.  Jew, and  those of the circumcision.   I believe Paul separates Luke and Epaphras, Demas, Nymphus, and Archippus from "of the circumcision", namely Aristarchus, Marcus, and  Justus.  

Colossians 4 :10 Aristarchus my fellowprisoner saluteth you, and Marcus, sister's son to Barnabas, (touching whom ye received commandments: if he come unto you, receive him;)

Colossians 4 :11 And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. these only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.

Colossians 4 :12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

Colossians 4 :13 For I bear him record, that he hath a great zeal for you, and them that are in Laodicea, and them in Hierapolis.

Colossians 4 :14 Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

Colossians 4 :15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

Colossians 4 :16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
Colossians 4 :17 And say to Archippus, Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord, that thou fulfil it.

Colossians 4 :18 The salutation by the hand of me Paul. Remember my bonds. Grace be with you. Amen. 

The brown words are the present or first person narrative, whereas the blue words are the past, away from, or third person narrative

 I believe that Luke separates himself  as well, at least from the physical ministry of Jesus Christ and apostles shortly after the Resurrection.  When you read the narrative of Acts you will notice it starts off as a first person narrative to Theophilus, in the introduction. Then immediately changes to a third person narrative until chapter 16, after Paul lands at Troas and after he see the vision of a man from Macedonia, it then changes to a first person narrative, and then finally back to a third person narrative, within the same chapter, when Paul and Silas are put into custody and then released.  Why is it written that way, or is it a mistake? Acts shows that Luke was not with them in the upper room, nor counted with the 120, he doesn't even put himself in amoung those where were  with Jesus Christ even in this chapter, nor was with them at the day of Pentacost in Acts 2.   If by the argument given, that becaise Luke had "perfect understanding" and “from the very first” proves he is a jew or was there with them at the time of Jesus's physical ministry.  Why wasn't he chosen amoung Justus and Mathias to be numbered with the eleven? The reason one was chosen is to have been a witness with them of the resurrection of Christ as stated in verse 22 below. Even verse 21 says they accompanied them during Jesus ministry.

 

Acts 1 :1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

Acts 1 :2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1 :3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Acts 1 :4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Acts 1 :5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 1 :6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Acts 1 :7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Acts 1 :8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 1 :9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Acts 1 :10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Acts 1 :11 Which also said, ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 1 :12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Acts 1 :13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.

Acts 1 :14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Acts 1 :15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

Acts 1 :16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Acts 1 :17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

Acts 1 :18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

Acts 1 :19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Acts 1 :20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Acts 1 :21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

Acts 1 :22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 1 :23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

Acts 1 :24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

Acts 1 :25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Acts 1 :26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Acts 2 :1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

 

Acts 2 :2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

Acts 2 :3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Acts 2 :4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2 :5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Acts 2 :6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Acts 2 :7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

Acts 2 :8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Acts 2 :9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

Acts 2 :10  Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Acts 2 :11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 2 :12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Acts 2 :13  Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Acts 2 :14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Acts 2 :15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Acts 2 :16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Acts 2 :17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Acts 2 :18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Acts 2 :19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

Acts 2 :20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Acts 2 :21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2 :22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Acts 2 :23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts 2 :24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 2 :25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

Acts 2 :26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

Acts 2 :27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2 :28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

Acts 2 :29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2 :30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Acts 2 :31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Acts 2 :32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 2 :33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 2 :34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Acts 2 :35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Acts 2 :36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Acts 2 :37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2 :38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2 :39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 2 :40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Acts 2 :41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 2 :42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Acts 2 :43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Acts 2 :44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

Acts 2 :45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 2 :46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Acts 2 :47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

This third person narrative ends briefly in Acts chapter 16. Starting in verse:10 a first person narrative begins and ends on verse 18.  The third person narrative picks up again on verse 19 and continues through to the end of the book The Acts.

 

Acts 16 :1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:

Acts 16 :2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.

Acts 16 :3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

Acts 16 :4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

Acts 16 :5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Acts 16 :6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,

Acts 16 :7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.

Acts 16 :8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.

Acts 16 :9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.

Acts 16 :10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

Acts 16 :11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis;

Acts 16 :12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.

Acts 16 :13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Acts 16 :14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Acts 16 :15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Acts 16 :16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

Acts 16 :17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Acts 16 :18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

Acts 16 :19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,

Acts 16 :20 And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city,

Acts 16 :21 And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.

Acts 16 :22 And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them.

Acts 16 :23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:

Acts 16 :24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.

Acts 16 :25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.

Acts 16 :26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

Acts 16 :27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

Acts 16 :28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

Acts 16 :29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

Acts 16 :30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Acts 16 :31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Acts 16 :32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Acts 16 :33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Acts 16 :34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Acts 16 :35 And when it was day, the magistrates sent the serjeants, saying, Let those men go.

Acts 16 :36 And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace.

Acts 16 :37 But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out.

Acts 16 :38 And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans.

Acts 16 :39 And they came and besought them, and brought them out, and desired them to depart out of the city.

Acts 16 :40 And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.

If Luke was amoung them after they were released from prison, why then does he not continue with a first person narrative when Paul and Silas depart from the city? From  this point on the third person narrative continues to the end of The Acts.


 The book of Luke starts out as a first person narrative much like The Acts, and immediately turns to third person narrative  through to the end of  the book of Luke.  It is pretty clear that Luke was not with the twelve during the ministry of Jesus Christ in this narrative as well.

Luke 1 :1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

Luke 1 :2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

Luke 1 :3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

Luke 1 :4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Luke 1 :5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

Luke 1 :6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Luke 1 :7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.

Luke 1 :8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,

Luke 1 :9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

Luke 1 :10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.

Luke 1 :11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.

Luke 1 :12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.

Luke 1 :13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

Luke 1 :14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

Luke 1 :15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Luke 1 :16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

Luke 1 :17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Luke 1 :18 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.

Luke 1 :19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

Luke 1 :20 And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

Luke 1 :21 And the people waited for Zacharias, and marvelled that he tarried so long in the temple.

Luke 1 :22 And when he came out, he could not speak unto them: and they perceived that he had seen a vision in the temple: for he beckoned unto them, and remained speechless.

Luke 1 :23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.

Luke 1 :24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,

Luke 1 :25  Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.

Luke 1 :26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

Luke 1 :27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Luke 1 :28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Luke 1 :29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

Luke 1 :30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Luke 1 :31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luke 1 :32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Luke 1 :33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luke 1 :34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Luke 1 :35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luke 1 :36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Luke 1 :37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Luke 1 :38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Luke 1 :39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;

Luke 1 :40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

Luke 1 :41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Luke 1 :42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

Luke 1 :43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Luke 1 :44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Luke 1 :45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

Luke 1 :46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

Luke 1 :47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Luke 1 :48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Luke 1 :49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

Luke 1 :50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.

Luke 1 :51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.

Luke 1 :52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

Luke 1 :53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

Luke 1 :54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

Luke 1 :55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Luke 1 :56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.

Luke 1 :57 Now Elisabeth's full time came that she should be delivered; and she brought forth a son.

Luke 1 :58 And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.

Luke 1 :59 And it came to pass, that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child; and they called him Zacharias, after the name of his father.

Luke 1 :60 And his mother answered and said, Not so; but he shall be called John.

Luke 1 :61 And they said unto her, There is none of thy kindred that is called by this name.

Luke 1 :62 And they made signs to his father, how he would have him called.

Luke 1 :63 And he asked for a writing table, and wrote, saying, His name is John. And they marvelled all.

Luke 1 :64 And his mouth was opened immediately, and his tongue loosed, and he spake, and praised God.

Luke 1 :65 And fear came on all that dwelt round about them: and all these sayings were noised abroad throughout all the hill country of Judaea.

Luke 1 :66 And all they that heard them laid them up in their hearts, saying, What manner of child shall this be! And the hand of the Lord was with him.

Luke 1 :67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

Luke 1 :68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

Luke 1 :69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

Luke 1 :70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

Luke 1 :71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

Luke 1 :72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

Luke 1 :73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Luke 1 :74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

Luke 1 :75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Luke 1 :76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

Luke 1 :77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Luke 1 :78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

Luke 1 :79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Luke 1 :80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.

In the end all I am trying to show.  Is that one cannot make an argument fool proof that Luke was a  jew or was present during Jesus Christ's ministry.  He could  have been a jew, but no where does it say he is a jew. Nor does it say he is a gentile, even though it could hint to it in Colossians.  There are far more blue words than brown ,which shows the bible is clear he was not present with the apostles either during the physical ministry of Jesus or after His Resurrection. Not even up to or before Paul "the late bloom apostle" landed in Troas. He sure doesn't put himself with Paul after he leaves the city and through out the rest of the book either. At any rate are we not all counted with Abraham's seed after we are born again?

Galatians 3 :24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3 :25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3 :26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3 :27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Galatians 3 :28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3 :29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

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In the end all I am trying to show.  Is that one cannot make an argument fool proof that Luke was a  jew or was present during Jesus Christ's ministry.  He could  have been a jew, but no where does it say he is a jew. Nor does it say he is a gentile, even though it could hint to it in Colossians.  There are far more blue words than brown ,which shows the bible is clear he was not present with the apostles either during the physical ministry of Jesus or after His Resurrection. Not even up to or before Paul "the late bloom apostle" landed in Troas. He sure doesn't put himself with Paul after he leaves the city and through out the rest of the book either. At any rate are we not all counted with Abraham's seed after we are born again?

 

Not present you say? Help me out here friend because I could make little sense of what your point is based on its abundance.

So the writer of the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts was not present during the Lord's earthly ministry? Or is this a different Luke or what is it that you are saying? The vast majority of the Bible from head to toe was actually experienced by the writers God chose so why would you make this argument?

Why is it significant that Luke not be a Jew, I don't get it.

 

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Greetings to all, and thanks to each of you for sharing in this discussion.

Sorry for the confusion, but the main point of this thread is the issue of being drawn away from the "awe", that we should have for God’s Word!

The fact is, because it is “God’s Word”, means that not a single word of it, can be a result of man’s intellect or investigation...... (2 Peter 1:20)
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”

------------------------
Peter, in trying to get this point across, tells us that any information from “any source”, can not be compared to the supernatural reliability of God’s Word:
Not even GOD’S VOICE, SPOKEN FROM HEAVEN! ...... (2 Peter 1:16-19)
V.16 ¶ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
V.17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
V.18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
V.19 ¶ We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Even though Peter was an “eyewitness” of God’s voice from heaven, declaring who Jesus was; Peter tells us, that this eyewitness account, “holds less validity” than the words of the Bible!
------------------------
The fact that this is even an issue, on a IFB forum, demonstrates how our attitude about the Bible has been effected by today’s Satanic attacks.

 

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Not present you say? Help me out here friend because I could make little sense of what your point is based on its abundance.

So the writer of the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts was not present during the Lord's earthly ministry? Or is this a different Luke or what is it that you are saying? The vast majority of the Bible from head to toe was actually experienced by the writers God chose so why would you make this argument?

Why is it significant that Luke not be a Jew, I don't get it.

 

When I say present. I mean he wasn't walking around with Jesus Christ or was within the same area as Jesus Christ.  I believe he was present or alive during Jesus's earthly ministry.  I'm am just showing that he writes as if he was present with Theophilus and he wrote the rest of the narrative as if he was not present with the apostles as a witness. Now in the way he wrote in chapter 16, it shows he was present with Paul through some of Paul's gospel journeys.  I know Paul was converted when Jesus Christ  personally contacted him on the way to Damascus.  Could Paul have taught Luke about Jesus Christ's ministry and resurrection?  As I said Luke could have been a jew or he could have been a gentile. I am not making an argument on whether or not Luke was chosen by God.  He was chosen by God  to write both books or I wouldn't be quoting him from the Bible. I am not saying it is significant whether he is a jew or not.  If he is a jew will I look at his books with a frown? Absolutely not.  If he is a gentile will I look at his books with a frown? Absolutely not. There isn't enough evidence for anyone to say for certain he was a jew.  Look at the title of this post and read the body of what posted.  Did I make the argument? Or did I just simply make a point to show otherwise?

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Greetings to all, and thanks to each of you for sharing in this discussion.

Sorry for the confusion, but the main point of this thread is the issue of being drawn away from the "awe", that we should have for God’s Word!

The fact is, because it is “God’s Word”, means that not a single word of it, can be a result of man’s intellect or investigation...... (2 Peter 1:20)
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”

------------------------
Peter, in trying to get this point across, tells us that any information from “any source”, can not be compared to the supernatural reliability of God’s Word:
Not even GOD’S VOICE, SPOKEN FROM HEAVEN! ...... (2 Peter 1:16-19)
V.16 ¶ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
V.17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
V.18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
V.19 ¶ We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Even though Peter was an “eyewitness” of God’s voice from heaven, declaring who Jesus was; Peter tells us, that this eyewitness account, “holds less validity” than the words of the Bible!
------------------------
The fact that this is even an issue, on a IFB forum, demonstrates how our attitude about the Bible has been effected by today’s Satanic attacks.

 

Peter is talking about the mount of transfiguration.  Which is written in three Gospels of the Bible. So in this case it holds just as much validity because it is recorded in the Bible three times and by three different writers.

Matthew 17 :1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

Matthew 17 :2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Matthew 17 :3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Matthew 17 :4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Matthew 17 :5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Matthew 17 :6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

Matthew 17 :7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

Matthew 17 :8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

Matthew 17 :9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

 

Mark 9 :1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Mark 9 :2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

Mark 9 :3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

Mark 9 :4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Mark 9 :5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Mark 9 :6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

Mark 9 :7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Mark 9 :8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

Mark 9 :9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

Luke 9 :28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

Luke 9 :29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

Luke 9 :30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

Luke 9 :31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Luke 9 :32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

Luke 9 :33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

Luke 9 :34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

Luke 9 :35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Luke 9 :36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

Even Luke writes about it. 

Who started this thread to make it an issue anyway?

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When I say present. I mean he wasn't walking around with Jesus Christ or was within the same area as Jesus Christ.  I believe he was present or alive during Jesus's earthly ministry.  I'm am just showing that he writes as if he was present with Theophilus and he wrote the rest of the narrative as if he was not present with the apostles as a witness. Now in the way he wrote in chapter 16, it shows he was present with Paul through some of Paul's gospel journeys.  I know Paul was converted when Jesus Christ  personally contacted him on the way to Damascus.  Could Paul have taught Luke about Jesus Christ's ministry and resurrection?  As I said Luke could have been a jew or he could have been a gentile. I am not making an argument on whether or not Luke was chosen by God.  He was chosen by God  to write both books or I wouldn't be quoting him from the Bible. I am not saying it is significant whether he is a jew or not.  If he is a jew will I look at his books with a frown? Absolutely not.  If he is a gentile will I look at his books with a frown? Absolutely not. There isn't enough evidence for anyone to say for certain he was a jew.  Look at the title of this post and read the body of what posted.  Did I make the argument? Or did I just simply make a point to show otherwise?

I see, thanks

 

 

Greetings to all, and thanks to each of you for sharing in this discussion.

Sorry for the confusion, but the main point of this thread is the issue of being drawn away from the "awe", that we should have for God’s Word!

The fact is, because it is “God’s Word”, means that not a single word of it, can be a result of man’s intellect or investigation...... (2 Peter 1:20)
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”

------------------------
Peter, in trying to get this point across, tells us that any information from “any source”, can not be compared to the supernatural reliability of God’s Word:
Not even GOD’S VOICE, SPOKEN FROM HEAVEN! ...... (2 Peter 1:16-19)
V.16 ¶ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
V.17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
V.18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
V.19 ¶ We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Even though Peter was an “eyewitness” of God’s voice from heaven, declaring who Jesus was; Peter tells us, that this eyewitness account, “holds less validity” than the words of the Bible!
------------------------
The fact that this is even an issue, on a IFB forum, demonstrates how our attitude about the Bible has been effected by today’s Satanic attacks.

 

Thanks for clarifying Don, I understand the issue and points now

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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 1:42 AM, Alan said:

Luke was a Jew with, for whatever reason, a Gentile name.

Donald was entirely correct. To claim that Luke was a Gentile is a subtle attempt to undermine the scriptures.

 

  Has clear, convincing proof been presented from the Scriptures that Luke could only be a natural-born Jew? 

The understanding that Luke was likely a Gentile may come from the New Testament itself.  The apostle Paul first listed certain believers and fellow workers (Col. 4:9-11) as those "who are [plural] of the circumcision" [Jews] (Col. 4:11) and then he listed afterwards some other fellow workers who evidently were not of the circumcision [not Jews] and included Luke in those (Col 4:14).

Would it be claimed that David should not have been an writer of part of the Old Testament because his great-grandmother Ruth was a Moabitess [a Gentile] and his great-great-grandmother Rahab was also a Gentile?

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On ‎2016‎年‎4‎月‎2‎日 at 1:42 PM, Alan said:

Luke was a Jew with, for whatever reason, a Gentile name.

John the Baptist was a Jew with a Gentile name.

John the Apostle was a Jew with a Gentile name.

Paul the Apostle was a Jew with a Gentile name.

The scriptures plainly state that all of the writers of the scriptures, "the oracles of God," were Jews. "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God." Romans 3:1 & 2

 

7 hours ago, Tyndale said:

 Has clear, convincing proof been presented from the Scriptures that Luke could only be a natural-born Jew?

Your reasoning concerning the lising of Gentile and non-Gentile names in  Colossians 4:9-11 is not convincing proof that Luke was a Gentile. If that be the case, than why stop at verse 11? what about the brethren at Laodicea and Nymphas and the church (brethren), in his house in verse 15? What about Archippus in verse 17? Your resasoning that Luke was a Jew due to the listing in Colossians 4:9-15 is not convincing proof.

You have read too much into Colossians 4:11

 

7 hours ago, Tyndale said:

and then he listed afterwards some other fellow workers who evidently were not of the circumcision [not Jews] and included Luke in those (Col 4:14).

"evidently," is not convincing proof. Luke, as Paul, were Jews ministering to Gentiles, in Gentile churches, in Gentile countries; therefore, the mixing of names, and supposably nationalities,  is not convincing proof that Luke was a Gentile.

Brethren,

There has been no clear and convincing proof that Luke was not a Jew. If Luke was not a Jew simply since he had a "quote, un-quote," Gentile name, than John the Baptist, John the Apostle and Paul the Apostle was a Gentile for the same reasoning.

By the way, that makes me also a Chinese as I have a Chinese name. All of the foreign missionaires here on Taiwan have Chinese names but that does not make us a Chinese. I have been included in lists of Chinese people on a few occasions, but that does not make me a Chinese either.

Alan

 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Brethren,

Let us look at Colossians 4:11 and 14 more closely.

Verse 11. "And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcism. These only are my fellow-workers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me." Paul stated simply stated that they were of the 'circumcism.' Paul did not state, nor even imply, that he was separating the lists of names into Jew and Gentile. That separating of nationalities is a reasoning that has been suggested; not written. Furthremore, these individuals are listed as  "fellow-workers.'

Verse 14. "Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you." Paul was stating the Luke was his beloved physician. Paul stated two things about Luke that he wanted all of the brethren to take sepcial note of.

Luke was traveling with Paul as a physician; not necessarily as a 'fellow-worker.'  

Luke was traveling with Paul in a special capacity besides a physician; Luke was 'beloved.'

In conclusion, the Apostle Paul wanted to give special emphasis to Luke and his capacity as his own special 'beloved physician' instead of just as a 'fellow-worker.' The apostle Paul separated Luke from the rest of the list, not because he was Gentile, but because Luke was particulary special to him and he wanted all of the brethren (including us), to know this fact.

To me, the apostle Paul wanted to emphasize the special relationship that existed between him and Luke. Luke was more than just a 'fellow-worker,' he was, 'beloved.' 

Alan 

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