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The Two Witnesses of Revelation 11

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And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.  Revelation 11:3
 
Malachi 4:4-5 Mentions Moses and Elijah:
Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

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In addition, Rev 11 makes it pretty clear to me that these 2 witnesses are Moses and Elijah and will demonstrate God's power in signs and wonders in the same manner in which they did in the OT:

3, And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.2
4, These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5, And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6, These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Coincidence? I doubt it. Sure sounds like Elijah and Moses to me.

 

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I do agree that Moses and Elijah are the 2 most likely candidates. I also note that Moses and Elijah were the 2 seen during the transfiguration. (Matt. 17:1-3) Even with all the indicators and information which does appear to point to Moses and Elijah, I still won't go as far as to say "it has to be"  Moses and Elijah, because they are not specifically named in Revelation. And I wonder why the Holy Spirit did not inspire John to write the names "Moses" and "Elijah" (nor any other names) when describing the 2 witnesses. Yes, plenty of clues, and yes, they are the two most likely candidates. But to claim that "God hath said" (when He didn't actually say "Moses and Elijah" in Revelation) would be an error. I have heard/read Bible studies and sermons where a teacher/preacher will actually say "it HAS to be" Moses and Elijah, and that (even with all the "clues") is putting words in God's mouth. I'm not willing to go there. I will just say that Moses and Elijah are the 2 most likely candidates. 

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5 hours ago, Rosie said:

I've heard that they will be Enoch and Elijah but don't agree as Enoch was not a Jew

Neither was Elijah. Elijah was from Gad's lineage (as per the Jewish Enc.) not Judah's (where we get the term Jew [Ju].

Edited by Genevanpreacher

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18 hours ago, Ronda said:

I do agree that Moses and Elijah are the 2 most likely candidates. I also note that Moses and Elijah were the 2 seen during the transfiguration. (Matt. 17:1-3) Even with all the indicators and information which does appear to point to Moses and Elijah, I still won't go as far as to say "it has to be"  Moses and Elijah, because they are not specifically named in Revelation. And I wonder why the Holy Spirit did not inspire John to write the names "Moses" and "Elijah" (nor any other names) when describing the 2 witnesses. Yes, plenty of clues, and yes, they are the two most likely candidates. But to claim that "God hath said" (when He didn't actually say "Moses and Elijah" in Revelation) would be an error. I have heard/read Bible studies and sermons where a teacher/preacher will actually say "it HAS to be" Moses and Elijah, and that (even with all the "clues") is putting words in God's mouth. I'm not willing to go there. I will just say that Moses and Elijah are the 2 most likely candidates. 

I thought you believed in  a literal interpretation,

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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

I thought you believed in  a literal interpretation

Exactly. Nowhere (in Revelation) when describing the 2 witnesses does John (inspired of the Holy Spirit) use the actual names "Moses" or "Elijah". He does give many clues which indicate it is most likely Moses and Elijah, but the difference is he did not name them specifically or literally.

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1 hour ago, Ronda said:

Exactly. Nowhere (in Revelation) when describing the 2 witnesses does John (inspired of the Holy Spirit) use the actual names "Moses" or "Elijah". He does give many clues which indicate it is most likely Moses and Elijah, but the difference is he did not name them specifically or literally.

The literal interpretation would be literal, i.e. the witness are two candlesticks and two olive trees.  That is what the angel said.  

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4 minutes ago, Invicta said:

The literal interpretation would be literal, i.e. the witness are two candlesticks and two olive trees.  That is what the angel said.  

And their LITERAL names are not given in Revelation. Even though I already agreed that the clues given point to the most likely candidates of Moses and Elijah, the fact that Revelation does NOT name their literal names is an issue. LITERALLY.  

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3 hours ago, Ronda said:

And their LITERAL names are not given in Revelation. Even though I already agreed that the clues given point to the most likely candidates of Moses and Elijah, the fact that Revelation does NOT name their literal names is an issue. LITERALLY.  

Not so sister. That is not an interpretation, it is a guess.The literal interpretation is what the scripture says and that is not Moses and Elijah.  

If we look at the previous reference to the two olive trees we find:

1 ¶  And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,
2  And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3  And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4  So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5  Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6  Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power,
but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
7  Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
8  Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9  The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10  For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
11 ¶  Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12  And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13  And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14  Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

 I have highlighted a few clues above. Another will be found in

Revelation 1:20  The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Note that it is a mystery, but part of the mystey is given here, the candlestiks are churches.

Edited by Invicta

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It's amazing that I've answered this 3 times now... literal literally means literal. You have quoted Zech 4, and even in Zech. 4 it does NOT give the names of the two olive trees. Nor the 2 candlesticks. Does it? I'm not trying to be facetious here, I really don't see what you are attempting to say. I literally do not see any names given in either Rev. 11:4 nor in Zech. 4. There are plenty of clues... but no literal names.

 I do not understand how you can attempt to tie in either Zech. 4 nor Rev. 11 with Rev. 1:20. There are SEVEN candlesticks given in Rev. 1:20 and they are named. However there are only TWO candlesticks given in Zech. 4 and Rev. 11 and they are NOT named. I'm not even sure what exactly you are trying to argue? So if you have any wisdom that you would like to impart about whom YOU believe the 2 witnesses to be... please feel free to give your thoughts on the matter. I would certainly hope if you are trying to proclaim that the TWO witnesses are the SAME as the SEVEN churches, that you would have more literal biblical proof to so name them.  The churches given in Rev. 1 are not the ONLY candlesticks mentioned throughout scripture. Should we take all references to all candlesticks throughout scripture into consideration? Even if they are clearly not speaking of the same 2 witnesses? There are clues both in Revelation, Zechariah, (and there may be other scripture which may or may not have relevance). But I respectfully do not see any names given in either of the verses. And I also refuse to give a name/names where the Holy Spirit has not inspired the names to be given. 

Zech. 4:14 "Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth."

Rev. 11:4 "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

 

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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

Well if you look at Rev 1 you will see that candlesticks are INTERPRETED and I may add divinely interpreted at Churches.  In Zech you will see that the olive trees pour oil into the candlesticks.  The oil of the Holy Spirit.  

Sir, I've had a busy day, and had to wait until my home health aide left to be able to give this my undivided attention/thought.
After having prayerfully re-studied the topic this evening, I now have some questions pertaining to your answer I hope you can answer for me.

So... if I were to entertain your theory that the 2 witnesses were 2 churches... I would also have to entertain the thought that these 2 churches would lie in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 days, AND that the entire world would see these churches' dead bodies for 3 days (before God resurrects them). 
That is an entertaining thought, but it doesn't fit the parameters given.
How could a dead church (or TWO churches) lie in the street for 3 days while the world beheld? People of kindreds, tongues, and NATIONS shall see their dead bodies for 3 days. 

So my questions to you would be:
#1 How does one church (much less 2 churches) lie in a street?
#2 How can a church (much less 2 churches) be a (physically) dead body?
    *I say physically dead because v.9 states that they "not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves". This clearly denotes physical dead bodies.
#2 How could people and kindreds and tongues and nations behold them?
     A second part of that question would be (assuming you believe this event has already taken place) how could people/kindreds/tonuges/nations have beheld this in the past?
#3 How do you reconcile that there are only two witnesses/candlesticks noted in Rev. 11 yet SEVEN churches noted in Rev. 1?

These questions are not to ridicule you in any way... these are just questions which need to be addressed to support your theory. How would these things be possible?
Thank you for your time.

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Firstly I would remind you that some of the symbols in Revelation have two meanings. For instance the Seven heads represent seven kings and also seven hills.  The witnesses represent two   items also.  1st candlesticks, 2nd Olive trees.   I have already shown that the candlesticks are churches.  If we look back to Zech. we see that the olive trees feed the candlestick. The fact that these are always before the Lord means that God will always have faithful ministers to teach his people with the guiding of the Holy Spirit. In Zech there was only one candlestick but being fed with oil from two pipes.  Two being the minimum number of witnesses in the law.  In Revelation the witness is kept going through the dark ages of the great tribulation of the church from the papacy.  I suppose you have been taught that in the dark ages 50,000,000, to 100,000,000 died under the various papal campaigns and crusades.  Foxe names many of those whose names were known at his time but there were millions more since then such as the Huguenots, the Camisards, the Albigenses, the Cathars, the Bogomils, the millions who suffered under the inquisition in Spain, Germany, Poland, even in Mexico,  and no doubt in other S American countries, wherever Catholicism held sway.  Remember that the book of Revelation is signified, taught in sins or figures is another word the scripture uses in other places. During all this time the Lord had his witnesses, two being the legal minimum, not necessarily two, but just enough to keep the witness going through the dark ages.  Then one day, the church was apparently dead.  The witnesses were dead.  The little horn has made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; and worn out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. He has worn down the saintsRev 11:7. 13:7, 17:14.  

It is late now, I will come back to this sometime.

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On 2/28/2016 at 7:29 AM, beameup said:
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackclothRevelation 11:3
 
Malachi 4:4-5 Mentions Moses and Elijah:
Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Yup. The same two who met Jesus and the disciples on the mount of transfiguration. Also, the miracles performed in Revelation by the "two candlesticks" are like those Moses and Elijah performed. The two represent "the law and the prophets" which will be back into play during the Great Tribulation.

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22 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Invicta,

 

You gave your interpretation concerning this twice in this thread, but you neglected to answer Sister Ronda's questions.

I was intending to include my answer in my next post, but I have been studying the chapter and find it is a much larger subject than I thought and was intending to answer in my next post, however as I am hoping to take the points in the prophecy in order I will put the answer in its place in order.  However if I find the task may mbetoo great for me and I probably will, I will make a separate reply.  

 

Edited by Invicta

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On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 4:09 AM, Critical Mass said:

Yup. The same two who met Jesus and the disciples on the mount of transfiguration. Also, the miracles performed in Revelation by the "two candlesticks" are like those Moses and Elijah performed. The two represent "the law and the prophets" which will be back into play during the Great Tribulation.

We are unlikely to come to an agreement regarding interpretation as to the future identities of the two, BUT
what can we apply as practical instruction for ourselves & our generation while we wait & work & watch & pray in expectation of our Lord's return to a world ever condemned by the Law & the Prophets?

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

 

 

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[on the road to Emmaus, Jesus speaking]  Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.  Luke 24:25-27

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MY TWO WITNESSESS

3 ¶  And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth 4  These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5  And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6  These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

 

In scripture, witnesses always refer to personages, not to inanimate objects like the two testaments or the law and the prophets as some would claim.

The first thing I wish to note about these witnesses, is that Christ calls the My Witnesses. Witnesses who would testify to Lord Jesus Christ, His Glory, His Grace and Salvation.  This does not mean that they would not also testify against the prevailing apostasy of their day, but their grand mission was to testify to Christ.  In Revelation 12:17 we read 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ, undoubtedly the same personages. have already drawn our attention to them being two candlesticks and two olive trees.  In Zech. 4:14 we read that the two olive branches are also two anointed ones that stand before the Lord of the whole earth, but the margin dds “Heb. Sons of oil. From the union of the two symbols I conclude that they include ministers, or gospel preachers as well as the churches or communities of believers taught by them.

The number of the witnesses given as two shows that the church was vastly reduced from its complete stage in Rev 1:20 when there were seven churches, the number of completeness, to the minimum number of two witnesses required under the law. 

We next note the time of their witnessing and their condition.  Firstly they were given power by the Lord. 3 ¶  And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. During the great tribulation of the church under the papists, their enemies often said that they seemed to have power to defy the flames and other tortures. Next, the duration of their prophecy.  As we see the candlesticks and olive trees were representative, so the days are representative of a greater period.  Our forefathers took the days as representing years as in the ‘seventy weeks’. That is  1260 years. Next we note that they were to prophecy in sackcloth, the universal sign of mourning, as we see by Daniel, Morecai and the people of Nineva, as were as the prophets, as their condition was usually one of trial, who were often vexed about the apostasy of their day.  So we see the witnesses were mourning for their co-workers and loved ones as well as the developing apostasy of their days.

Next we note the avenging power given to them against their enemies..

 5  And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 

Fire.  As in Jeremiah 5:14  Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them. God’s fiery judgments on their persecutors.

Lack of rain. As in Isaiah 5:5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down: And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.7  For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.  As in Amos 8: 11 ¶  Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: 12  And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

Still to come, Rev 11:7-12

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Revelation 11:7-12

7  And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9  And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12  And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Before we look at the above verses I would like to refer to the time of the beginning of their testimony. 

Revelation 12: 14.  And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

We see here that the period when the woman, the church, was nourished in the wilderness is the same as that of the witnesses’ testimony. The occasion was the flood coming from the dragon’s mouth, the doctrine of baptismal regeneration.  The woman fled to the wilderness, the mountains and deserts, while the beast made war upon her

13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Again we see the beast making was with the saints for the same period those whose names were not in the book of life would worship him. The same as the little horn speaking great things in Dan 7.

Revelation 7:12

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.10  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.11  And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; 12  And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The great problem with verse 7 is the word ‘finished’.  We know that they could not have finished their testimony before the beast made war on them because their testimony lasted throughout the period. Commentators in the past have suggested various meanings, such as “When they shall be about finishing” or “Whilst they shall perform their testimony” or “completed”.  I would perhaps think we could say ‘finalised’.  Their message was finalised in the 13th century when the papacy reached its most degraded stage and the saints recognised it as Antichrist.  This was about the beginning of the 13th century.

Then the beast made war with them unleashing the inquisition and other murders.  It had always persecuted the saints but from that time is was revitalized with devilish power.  He overcame them and killed them. In 1489, the Bohemian witness-churches sent deputies to search throughout Europe for other kindred witnessing churches, but they found none.  The Waldensians and other witnessing churches had been silenced by the crusades and inquisition. Others had accepted the mass[HR1] .  The Bohemians passed a resolution in their synod that if anywhere God should raise up faithful teachers of the church, they would make common cause with them.  Soon after, the Bohemian Brethren themselves were extinguished.  The witnesses were dead. Milner wrote “The XVIth opened with a prospect of all others the most gloomy, in the eyes of every true Christian.”  Mosheim adds “At the commencement of this century, no danger seemed to threaten the Roman Pontiffs.”  Cuninghame said “Europe reposed in the deep sleep of spiritual death. “ The Encylopaedia Britannica  “Everything    was quiet, every heretic exterminated: and the whole Christian world supinely acquiesced in the enormous absurdities inculcated by the Romish Church: …….”   

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.  Not Jerusalem. Our Lord was crucifed outside Jerusalem, as was Stephen dragged outside the city and stoned.  Rome was the Great City, or Megatropolis, or greater Rome where they still claim to sacrifice the Lord in the mass.  This is confirmed by the angel in chapter 17:18, where the great city was the one ruling over the earth at that time. It is called the Great City in contrast to the Holy City,  .Rev 11:2.

Lie in the street or broad place; presumably equivalent of the open place in Jewish towns where judgment was dispensed. In this case the forum of the anti Christian empire. As Gibbon records, “the nations began once more to seek, on the banks of the Tiber the kings, the laws, and the oracles of their fate.”

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.  Just at this time there was the Lateran council 1512-1517 where deputies met from all over the Roman world under Popes Julius II then LeoX, One orator of the council, Baltassar del Rio, said “The meeting place in the Lateran church was the central area, or broad Place of the Western world. “ We see from history that Rome often forbade burial to heretics.  In Ireland in the middle of the following century there was an attack by Catholics on Protestants led by priests who warned them that their pains were only the beginning of their pains in hell and the only burial of ‘heretics’ was the burial of the living.  In the 6th session of the council April 27 2015 it stated that the heretics intended were the remaining Hussites.  In December 2013 a charge was issued summoning the dissidents to appear before the next session to appear and plead before the council session, May 5th following. Did they appear before their accusers, their Lord’s enemies, as did the Waldensians at Albi and Pamiers, Wicliff and Cobham in England, Huss and Jerome at the Constance Council and later, Luther at Augsburg and Worms?  Alas No!  All was quiet!  Throughout the breadth of the land, the witnesses were silenced.  (I will make a note later)  It was announced “Jam nemo reclamat, nullus obsistit”  “There is an end to opposition to Papal rule and religion, opposers there exist no more.” There were other similar announcements.   

10  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Rich gifts were offered the Portuguse king for instance brought the pope gifts from his recent conquests in the East Indies, and the pope gave the king a solid  gold rose as well as half the sovereignty to all the lands in the East. Dean Waddington said “The assembled prelates separated from the council with complacency, and mutual congratulations on the peace, unity and purity of the church.”

Their congratulations were not long continued.  11  And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. I could make a number of quotes here bust just two will suffice, one began earlier.  The Encylopaedia Britannica  “Everything  was quiet, every heretic exterminated: and the whole Christian world supinely acquiesced in the enormous absurdities inculcated by the Romish Church, when in 1517 the empire of superstition received its first attack from Luther” and Cunninghame “At the beginning of the XVIIth century  Europe reposed in the deep repose of a spiritual death, under thee iron yoke of the papacy.  There was none that moved its wing or opened its mouth or peeped: - when suddenly in one of the universities of Germany the voice of an obscure monk was heard, the sound of which rapidly filled Saxony, Germany and Europe itself, shaking the very foundations of papal power, and arising men from the lethargy of the ages.”

The bodies were to lie on the street for 3½ days representing 3½ years.  How does that fit? From the day those who figuratively gazed on their bodies at the council May 5 1514 till Luther pasted his theses on the church door, Oct 31 2017. Is 3½ years. Computed as follows

May 5th 2014 to May 5th 2017 is three years.

May 5 to May 31 = 27 days

June 30 days

July 31 days

August 31 days

September 30 days

October 31 days

Total 180 days, half of 360                      Total 1260 days.

Pope Adrian,  in a brief written to the Diet of Njuremburg, wrote, The heretics Huss and Jerome are now alive again in the person of Luther.

Next we read And great fear fell upon them which saw them. Not those of the council for that had disbanded.  Pope Leo was not worried by the obscure monk not seeing any dander from him, but those in Germany as beheld them such as Tetzel, Cardinal Caietan, Eck and Miltitz.  Each of these trembled with shock with the site of revived gospel preaching thrilling through Germany and noting there was power in the movement as if from heaven.

12  And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

In the following verses we see the king of Babylon is speaking about political power as heaven

Isaiah 14.13  For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14  I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 5  Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16  They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms. 

So in our text above those who beheld them ascend to power. And how was that ascent accomplished?  By the grace of God.  Little more than 20 years from the Diet of Augsburg condemning them, we notice that the Emperor Charles V anticipating a Turkish attack under Sultan Solyman, put a stop to all suits against the protestants.  The protestants then became a political body of no small significance. 

 

So ends a brief history of the two witnesses,

 

I made a remark earlier that I would comment of the death of the witnesses.  It would appear that there were a few Lollards in England, supposing the dates are correct because I find that in 1517 John Brown of Ashford was burnt on the banks of the River Stour just 20 miles from here. But nobody appeared before the council in Rome.

 

 

 



 

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7 hours ago, Ian Day said:

David - is that your own study, or are you quoting someone?

 

Mostly I am quoting Elliott, the rest is my own study.  I disagree with him on the date of the beginning of the period.  He makes it to be the early to late 6th century, but I place it firmly as AD 610 when the decree of Phocas came into force making the Bishop of Rome the universal bishop.  At the time of writing he could not see the end of the prophecy in the events of 1870.  

 

Edited by Invicta

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