is it sin to lie?

[pablo]

?

united methodist church said lying is not a sin. they site an example of what rahab did to the spies of israel

[Pastorj]

God never commended her for her lie. Lying is a sin. God commended her for her faith.

[HappyChristian]

PastorJ is right. God blessed Rahab in spite of the sin of her lying, not because of it. Just as He will use us in spite of our sins. The Bible is full of verses that speak to the fact that lying is wrong.

[Anon]

My husband and I are of the opinion that lying is similar to killing, in which case its allowed during wartime. If you look in the Bible, the times where lying or deceit was not punished was during time of war, between countries or nations (like Rahab or the men of Shechem or etc). Sarah lied about Abraham, and it brought about bad things. However anybody who lied in order to protect someone or help win a battle, it was overlooked. Just like you can't go killing your neighbor, but you can kill in wartime, during a war.

That's how we see it, and that's how we believe certain lies in the Bible were overlooked, just as certain types of killing was allowed.

[JerryNumbers]

Its never right to do wrong to do right.

Seems to me this would clearly teach that we are not to lie, that it woudl be a sin.

Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not beare false witnes against thy neighbour.

[Anon]

False witness is when you lie about your neighbor to get him arrested or in trouble.

[IM4given]

Proverbs 6
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


Psalm 31:18 Let the lying lips be put to silence; which speak grievous things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous.
Psalm 52:3 Thou lovest evil more than good; and lying rather than to speak righteousness. Selah.
Psalm 59:12 For the sin of their mouth and the words of their lips let them even be taken in their pride: and for cursing and lying which they speak.
Psalm 109:2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
Psalm 119:29 Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously.
Psalm 119:163 I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.
Psalm 120:2 Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips, and from a deceitful tongue.
Psalm 139:3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.
Proverbs 10:18 He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.
Proverbs 12:19 The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment.
Proverbs 12:22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.
Proverbs 13:5 A righteous man hateth lying

[Pastorj]

Kitagrl,

Kill is the word for Murder. In wartime, it is not murder.

Lying though is lying no matter what.

[zealyouthguy]

My husband and I are of the opinion that lying is similar to killing, in which case its allowed during wartime. If you look in the Bible, the times where lying or deceit was not punished was during time of war, between countries or nations (like Rahab or the men of Shechem or etc). Sarah lied about Abraham, and it brought about bad things. However anybody who lied in order to protect someone or help win a battle, it was overlooked. Just like you can't go killing your neighbor, but you can kill in wartime, during a war.

That's how we see it, and that's how we believe certain lies in the Bible were overlooked, just as certain types of killing was allowed.

Unlike killing someone (which the Bible gives exceptions for, to be instituted by the government (or the group of rulers)) I don't ever see anything about lying being ok because you're in war. In that case, is it only one side or both sides that can lie and be right with God.

Besides which it would have to be proved that killing is "ok" during wartime also. We have to be careful not to make God's commands to Israel to go kill the Ammorites, the same as say, us fighting in Iraq, the civil war, or even the revolutionary war. The revolutionary war was fought over taxes and much less egregious oppression than we face under our current government today.

War happens because men are sinful.

Example: were both sides justified in God's eyes and not breaking his law when the American Civil War took place? If not, why not? If so, did God overlook the atrocities performed by both sides? Or did God take it on a killing by killing basis, based on the individual.

God wouldn't let David build his temple because he was a bloody man of war, so although David killed during war time, was it no big deal to God?

Even greater discussion could be had around modern indiscriminate killing. ie. when you have to face someone and actually KILL them, it's bound to keep killing down (overall). It's when we started distancing ourselves with slings, spears, arrows, guns, bombs, and missiles. Now we can push buttons and kill millions of people thousands of miles away.

Oh, I am not pacifist either, I own many guns and would use them to protect my family. I just don't think it's as cut and dry as... well there's a war so we can kill or lie.

War is a tough situation and I think that we can't abscond ourselves from responsibility simply because the government tells us to go to war. Think of the German Christians during world war II that fought for the Nazi's. Many of them had no idea that millions of jews were being gassed, or it was glossed over in the media certainly. Were they right in their battles because they were obeying their government and even further... protecting their families in a very real sense especially as the Russians gained ground or the allied forces.

The worse thing we do when we talk about war is to gloss over and give a simple... "We were right they were wrong, God was on our side" discussions. Life is complicated... but I digress.

[futurehope]

?

united methodist church said lying is not a sin. they site an example of what rahab did to the spies of israel

Is this actually from the UMC or is it just an interpretation of yours? I don't mean to be offensive, but I have never heard this before and I have a pretty good knowledge of the beliefs that the UMC stands for. While, yes, many of them are way off base, I never saw or heard of anything this blatantly foolish from their doctrine.

[JerryNumbers]

False witness is when you lie about your neighbor to get him arrested or in trouble.

The key word here that you mentioned is the word lie.

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

Mark 7:22 (KJV)

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Romans 1:29-30 (KJV)

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Romans 3:13 (KJV)

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Col 2:8 (KJV)

3 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:

1 Thess 2:3 (KJV)

Quite clear, lying is not to be a trait of the child of God if he or she is really being Christ like.

Anyone who lies then makes an excuse for it is only fooling their self.

[Anon]

I'm just saying that there are isolated times when lying with a pure motive is not necessarily wrong. The wise men promised to go back and see King Herod but God told them to break the promise. Some of us would consider that a lie. There were times, in times of danger, when breaking a promise or deceiving someone to save a life was not considered wrong.

Thankfully most of us do not have to face situations like that. I'm just saying they ARE in the Bible. God allowed many things in the OT we do not understand, but He still allowed them, and sometimes blessed them.

[Guest Guest]

Unlike killing someone (which the Bible gives exceptions for, to be instituted by the government (or the group of rulers)) I don't ever see anything about lying being ok because you're in war. In that case, is it only one side or both sides that can lie and be right with God.

Besides which it would have to be proved that killing is "ok" during wartime also. We have to be careful not to make God's commands to Israel to go kill the Ammorites, the same as say, us fighting in Iraq, the civil war, or even the revolutionary war. The revolutionary war was fought over taxes and much less egregious oppression than we face under our current government today.

War happens because men are sinful.

Example: were both sides justified in God's eyes and not breaking his law when the American Civil War took place? If not, why not? If so, did God overlook the atrocities performed by both sides? Or did God take it on a killing by killing basis, based on the individual.

God wouldn't let David build his temple because he was a bloody man of war, so although David killed during war time, was it no big deal to God?

Even greater discussion could be had around modern indiscriminate killing. ie. when you have to face someone and actually KILL them, it's bound to keep killing down (overall). It's when we started distancing ourselves with slings, spears, arrows, guns, bombs, and missiles. Now we can push buttons and kill millions of people thousands of miles away.

Oh, I am not pacifist either, I own many guns and would use them to protect my family. I just don't think it's as cut and dry as... well there's a war so we can kill or lie.

War is a tough situation and I think that we can't abscond ourselves from responsibility simply because the government tells us to go to war. Think of the German Christians during world war II that fought for the Nazi's. Many of them had no idea that millions of jews were being gassed, or it was glossed over in the media certainly. Were they right in their battles because they were obeying their government and even further... protecting their families in a very real sense especially as the Russians gained ground or the allied forces.

The worse thing we do when we talk about war is to gloss over and give a simple... "We were right they were wrong, God was on our side" discussions. Life is complicated... but I digress.

Are you implying that the Revolutionary War was wrong on America's part? It was sin for us to "rebel" against England like that?

[Anon]

...plus, God commanded war several times in the OT, esp when He was leading His people into the Promised Land.....

[Pastorj]

I am still in disbelief that anyone would think lying is ok under certain circumstances.

Should your husband lie when you ask him how you look and you look awful. She he spare your feelings and tell you that you look wonderful. At what point do we allow the Devil to gain victory in our life by following the father of lies.

As to the wisemen. They did not lie. They intended to go back to Herod, but Go told them "AFTER" to go a different way. I tell my son all the time that sometimes I make a promise to him and then have to break it because of extenuating circumstances. I did not lie, I just didn't know what was coming around the corner.


As to the "Revolutionary War". We have had this fight, but the term "Revolutionary" is a modern term. We celebrate "Independence Day". The correct name is the "War for Independence".