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John81

Sword of the Lord

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It's something I didn't want to do but I finally had to drop my subscription to Sword of the Lord. They have strayed and become double-minded in ways I can't keep hoping will be corrected or that can be ignored.

On one hand they will say there needs to be clear lines of separation, they will speak out against some they don't think are keeping separation, and yet on their other hand they will do what they say others should not as they quote non-Christians as if they were Christians, positively quote Calvinists and baby-baptizers they claim to stand against, support or turn a blind eye to those in their "camp" which use CCM while saying they are against it for others, editing sermons and hymns to suit their purposes without pointing out they have done so and when finally they can no longer hide what they did offering weak excuses rather than repentance and correction, etc.

It has been sad and painful to see the steady decline of Sword of the Lord but such seems to be the way of things.

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I haven't seen a Sword of the Lord in over 20 years I think. I was given a 1-year subscription back when Curtis Hutson was the Editor. I liked it, but didn't renew when the year was over. I later tried Revival Fires, but it seemed like every issue of that focused on 2 things...

1. soul-winning

2. one of the major pet sins that most IFB pastors like to preach on. (Music, pants on women, MVs, attending movies, etc.)

To me...and I stress...to me, it got monotonous. Kind of like if your pastor preached on the same thing every time he preached.

Editor's Note: The opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect the beliefs, opinions, or views of the owner, moderators, nor other members of Online Baptist and should not be seen as an endorsement by them.

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The Sword was still pretty good 20 years ago. They have steadily declined to the point I don't find it edifying to read anymore.

Agreed with regards to Revival Fire, at least as it was last I read it which has been awhile, it was rather monotonous and not geared for Christian growth. It kind of reminded me of a Baptist church we visited for awhile many years ago. Each service was a soul winning service. There was no preaching to train up or build up the congregation in living for the Lord. Each sermon was "come to Jesus" and then they would play that song over and over and over at the end of each service until finally someone would go to the front to "rededicate" or ask for prayer just so the service could end.

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Sword is not perfect, my subscription is about up and I'm considering renewal or letting it go.  What else is there?  I basically get the articles from O Timothy delivered to my inbox every morning and back to the Sword paper, for the most part I enjoy reading it but some issues are quite boring.  

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1 hour ago, swathdiver said:

Sword is not perfect, my subscription is about up and I'm considering renewal or letting it go.  What else is there?  I basically get the articles from O Timothy delivered to my inbox every morning and back to the Sword paper, for the most part I enjoy reading it but some issues are quite boring.  

Hey, why don't you get yourself a subscription to Peter Ruckman's Bible Baptist Bulletin. You might get off the baby bottle.

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Oh my I am a Sword of the Lord fan and have been for over 30 years.... I am surprised at what I read here.. I don't see this in the Seord or am I blind. My subscription is about to run out too and I am anxious to renew it...I don't know what to say

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2 hours ago, Rosie said:

Oh my I am a Sword of the Lord fan and have been for over 30 years.... I am surprised at what I read here.. I don't see this in the Seord or am I blind. My subscription is about to run out too and I am anxious to renew it...I don't know what to say

Rosie,

Rosie, you are not blind. I intend to keep my subscription to the Sword of the Lord and I want to encourage you, and anybody else that cares to listen, to keep their subscription. :amen:

The Sword of the Lord has been a blessing to me, my wife, my daughter, and those who read it after I place in on the church library shelf.

Methinks there may be some nitpicking in this area of discussion and while straining at a gnat a camel is about to come into the tent. :15huh:

Here is my two cents. :twocents:

A lot of generalities have been mentioned in problems with the Sword but no specific examples. Even with some problems, The Sword of the Lord, and O Timothy, are probably the two finest Christian publications left. It is my personal pleasure in having some of the godly, may I repeat, godly men who currently write articles for the Sword of the Lord as supporting churches and one, if I mentioned his name, most of the brethren here would know who he is. But, I willl forbear as being a supported missionary I would be considered partial.

Shall I discontinue my Sword subscription? what can take its place? Shall we consider the problems with O Timothy next? What publication will take its place?

I also love O Timothy. Are both newspapers perfect? No. Is OnLine Baptist perfect? No.

Could the Sword be better? Yes. Occasionaly they do have an writer that I would not have in my pulpit. Considering the size, and scope of the Sword of the Lord, it is better than can be expected. There are more heretics on OnLine Baptist than in the Sword of the Lord in any issue. There are more reprobates on OnLine Baptist than has graced the pages of the Sword of the Lord in any issue. Please, look at my words carefully. The aforementioned sentence is a generalization.

So, for those who plan to cancel their subscriptions to the Sword of the Lord, in order not to be hypoctirical, you need to stop posting on OnLine Baptist.  Think about what I just said. :icon_confused: Several of the major contributors on OnLine Baptist are not even Baptist, nor Fundamental, nor Independent.

If some of the brethen would like to give me specific examples on why the Sword is not worthy to grace a Christian home, or the shelf of the church library, then send me a private e-mail, or personal messenger, with specific, and I mean specific, serious, doctrinal issues.

For awhile now, a lot of independent, fundamental men of God have been belitted, maligned, and scorned.

Here is a partial list.

1. Pastor Oulette in Saginaw, Michigan. A personal friend of mine. My pastor was his father and our current pastor is a Bible Institute graduate of his church. Pastor Oulette is a godly, soul-winner, missionary minded, compassinate man.

2. The Scofield Bible has been maligned. He is continully being maligned by one individual who (contiually), despises the Dispensational and Second coming of Christ doctrinal truths. I myself have pointed out some errors in the Scofield Bible. but, it is still one of the best Reference bibles available.

3. Clarence Larkin has been maligned. He is continully being maligned by those who despise the Dispensational and Second Coming of Christ doctrinal truths.

Are the brethen here on OnLine Baptist better the Curtis Hutson and the Sword? Curtis Hutson and the Sword has more grace than the brethren that maligned the above men. 

Methinks a double standard is in the air and floating among the brethren.

Before we consider maligning the Sword of the Lord let us first consider cleaning our own house. Consider the agnostics, non-IFB brethren, internet theologians, and hyper-dispensationalists on OnLine Baptist. Are having them post their non-IFB views worse than the Sword?  :puzzled3: Once our house is clean, and all of the beams are gone, we may consider the motes that are in the Sword of the Lord. ^_^

Alan

 

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Yet Shelton Smith is part of this man-centered crowd. Instead of reproving them, he joins them. This is part of a wide-ranging, good-old boys, mutual back-scratching network, and men who care about the truth and care about the next generation and care about their churches need to come apart from it.

Preachers who continue to associate with this crowd are building bridges whereby this influence will enter their churches and eventually leaven them, regardless of what else they do right in their personal ministries.

http://www.wayoflife.org/index_files/good_churches_ruined_by_bad_assoc.html

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The redefinition of repentance by Hyles/Hutson and the corruption of biblical evangelism that is so widespread among independent Baptists is a fundamental issue that lies at the very heart of salvation and church life and missionary work. A building established on such a corrupt foundation is destined to collapse, even if a lot of other things are right.

http://www.wayoflife.org/index_files/why_most_fundamental_baptists_emerging.html

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To MARK someone who is committed to error means to identify him. How do we do this? We do it by plain exposure, reproof and warning. If a man is prominent in teaching a certain error, he should be marked and reproved so that God’s people can know exactly who to avoid. This is why I use the names of men like Jack Hyles and Curtis Hutson when warning about Quick Prayerism.

But marking and reproving is not enough. We must also AVOID. That is a very simple and powerfully descriptive term.

To avoid those who are committed to error means to stay away from their churches, the Bible studies, their writings, their conferences, their schools, their radio and television ministries, and their Internet blogs.

It doesn’t mean to hate them; it means to disassociate from them so as not to be affected by the leaven of their error. It means to disassociate from them so as to be the right example to your people.

This practice is very dramatic and “radical” and “extreme” in our day, but it is exactly what the Bible requires and it is the way of spiritual protection.

This is the way to cut off the leaven of compromise and heresy so that it does not spread through a church.

http://www.wayoflife.org/index_files/path_from_ib_to_shack_rome.html

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1 hour ago, Alan said:

Rosie,

Rosie, you are not blind. I intend to keep my subscription to the Sword of the Lord and I want to encourage you, and anybody else that cares to listen, to keep their subscription. :amen:

The Sword of the Lord has been a blessing to me, my wife, my daughter, and those who read it after I place in on the church library shelf.

Methinks there may be some nitpicking in this area of discussion and while straining at a gnat a camel is about to come into the tent. :15huh:

Here is my two cents. :twocents:

A lot of generalities have been mentioned in problems with the Sword but no specific examples. Even with some problems, The Sword of the Lord, and O Timothy, are probably the two finest Christian publications left. It is my personal pleasure in having some of the godly, may I repeat, godly men who currently write articles for the Sword of the Lord as supporting churches and one, if I mentioned his name, most of the brethren here would know who he is. But, I willl forbear as being a supported missionary I would be considered partial.

Shall I discontinue my Sword subscription? what can take its place? Shall we consider the problems with O Timothy next? What publication will take its place?

I also love O Timothy. Are both newspapers perfect? No. Is OnLine Baptist perfect? No.

Could the Sword be better? Yes. Occasionaly they do have an writer that I would not have in my pulpit. Considering the size, and scope of the Sword of the Lord, it is better than can be expected. There are more heretics on OnLine Baptist than in the Sword of the Lord in any issue. There are more reprobates on OnLine Baptist than has graced the pages of the Sword of the Lord in any issue. Please, look at my words carefully. The aforementioned sentence is a generalization.

So, for those who plan to cancel their subscriptions to the Sword of the Lord, in order not to be hypoctirical, you need to stop posting on OnLine Baptist.  Think about what I just said. :icon_confused: Several of the major contributors on OnLine Baptist are not even Baptist, nor Fundamental, nor Independent.

If some of the brethen would like to give me specific examples on why the Sword is not worthy to grace a Christian home, or the shelf of the church library, then send me a private e-mail, or personal messenger, with specific, and I mean specific, serious, doctrinal issues.

For awhile now, a lot of independent, fundamental men of God have been belitted, maligned, and scorned.

Here is a partial list.

1. Pastor Oulette in Saginaw, Michigan. A personal friend of mine. My pastor was his father and our current pastor is a Bible Institute graduate of his church. Pastor Oulette is a godly, soul-winner, missionary minded, compassinate man.

2. The Scofield Bible has been maligned. He is continully being maligned by one individual who (contiually), despises the Dispensational and Second coming of Christ doctrinal truths. I myself have pointed out some errors in the Scofield Bible. but, it is still one of the best Reference bibles available.

3. Clarence Larkin has been maligned. He is continully being maligned by those who despise the Dispensational and Second Coming of Christ doctrinal truths.

Are the brethen here on OnLine Baptist better the Curtis Hutson and the Sword? Curtis Hutson and the Sword has more grace than the brethren that maligned the above men. 

Methinks a double standard is in the air and floating among the brethren.

Before we consider maligning the Sword of the Lord let us first consider cleaning our own house. Consider the agnostics, non-IFB brethren, internet theologians, and hyper-dispensationalists on OnLine Baptist. Are having them post their non-IFB views worse than the Sword?  :puzzled3: Once our house is clean, and all of the beams are gone, we may consider the motes that are in the Sword of the Lord. ^_^

Alan

 

Thank you Alan. 

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On 2/23/2016 at 6:40 PM, John81 said:

 It kind of reminded me of a Baptist church we visited for awhile many years ago. Each service was a soul winning service. There was no preaching to train up or build up the congregation in living for the Lord. Each sermon was "come to Jesus" and then they would play that song over and over and over at the end of each service until finally someone would go to the front to "rededicate" or ask for prayer just so the service could end.

The opposite is often true among Baptist Churches over here. It is teaching at every service.

At a pastor's fraternal about 30 miles from here a few years ago, a Baptist pastor who at the time was a fairly regular preacher at our church, related to me that he said "Brothers, we need to get back to gospel preaching.  We have teaching in the morning, teaching in the evening and teaching midweek as well."  He said that remark split the meeting.  

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Brethren,

I do not intend to get into a heated debate over the Sword of the Lord and the O Timothy newspapers. I subscribe to both of them. These two newspapers are the only Christian newspapers that I subscribe too. If you will notice my previous 'likes' here on OnLine Baptist you will notice that I like the O Timothy newspaper very much.

As I do not want to get into a heated discussion over this issue I will briefly answer items that have been brought out. As an example, I went downstairs  to the church library and picked up the top copy of the Sword of the Lord (the December 4, 2015 issue).

1. Not one mention of Carl Hatch was in the paper. The high-pressure salesman, no repentance, approach of Carl Hatch is repugnant not only to me but to the soul-winning churches that I attend. For Bro. Clould to continually re-hash this issue is beating a dead horse.

2. Dr. Shelton Smith, as  usual, selected a variety of old time preachers and men well known in our age. To my knowledge, none of these men are 'emerging churches,' or 'no repentance' preachers of the gospel. Dr. Smith is still emphasizing John R. Rice's books and materials. Bro. Smith is not John R. Rice, but, he is doing the best job he can. Can anybody here on OnLine Baptist do better? If you can, start your own Christian publication.

3. There was a large variety of fundamental, Independent, KJV, Baptist, men and colleges represented in the Sword of the Lord both in advertisements and articles. Maybe if Bro. Cloud changed his harsh, bitter, and personal rancor towards Bro. Smith and his ministry, than maybe Bro. Smith would allow him to advertise.

4. Any 're-definition' of the word repentance by Hyles/Hutson has not affected me, the churches I attend, and the men I associate with. Nor, do any of the churches that I attend. Nor do I, nor the churches that I associate with, practice 'quick prayerism.' For Bro. Cloud to continually re-hash these isssues, and call the majority of IFB 'emerging churches' in my opinion, is hurting his ministry and is creating a false issue among the brethren.   

In spite of the faults of both newspapers, I am intending to continue my subscribtion to both the 'Sword of the Lord,' and "O Timothy' as both are still IFB and are a blessing to my heart.

Alan

 

Edited by Alan
spelling (three words)

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When I first found Online Baptist I was unfavorably impressed at the amount of folks that read, listened to and watched ministries that were outside of their own local church. I think I made a few posts to that effect.

To this day I continue to wonder......why? We have local churches for a reason, they are to edify, teach, comfort and build up God's people and reach out to a lost world.

There is a very real danger in exposing ourselves to teaching outside of our church. Scripture tells us that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth. This precludes the truth being found outside of the church that Jesus built. God puts us in our local church because that is the best place for us; it is here that we learn, grow and serve our Lord.

When we expose ourselves to outside influences that have the ability to work against the teaching of our local churches, we weaken the ministry of our church and open ourselves to possibly dangerous teaching. Within our churches we have control over what is being taught and by whom. There is real value in associating ourselves with like minded brethren. Conversely there is a real danger, especially for new Christians, of exposing ourselves to questionable teaching and preaching from outside of our church.

Ask yourself this: would you call a man to pastor your church that you had no idea about concerning his beliefs and practices? Of course this question is ridiculous, but then this is exactly what we do when we allow ourselves to be exposed to all the different teaching, even among IFB's.

A perfect example of what I am talking about is what we see going on here at OB, with some who claim to be IFB and yet have exposed themselves to so much that is not fundamental, or even Baptist that they become almost heretical.

 2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

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On 2/25/2016 at 1:54 AM, Critical Mass said:

Hey, why don't you get yourself a subscription to Peter Ruckman's Bible Baptist Bulletin. You might get off the baby bottle.

Be gone you foolish heathen and enemy of Christ!

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," - Romans 1:20-22

Edited by swathdiver

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6 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

When I first found Online Baptist I was unfavorably impressed at the amount of folks that read, listened to and watched ministries that were outside of their own local church. I think I made a few posts to that effect.

To this day I continue to wonder......why? We have local churches for a reason, they are to edify, teach, comfort and build up God's people and reach out to a lost world.

There is a very real danger in exposing ourselves to teaching outside of our church. Scripture tells us that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth. This precludes the truth being found outside of the church that Jesus built. God puts us in our local church because that is the best place for us; it is here that we learn, grow and serve our Lord.

When we expose ourselves to outside influences that have the ability to work against the teaching of our local churches, we weaken the ministry of our church and open ourselves to possibly dangerous teaching. Within our churches we have control over what is being taught and by whom. There is real value in associating ourselves with like minded brethren. Conversely there is a real danger, especially for new Christians, of exposing ourselves to questionable teaching and preaching from outside of our church.

Ask yourself this: would you call a man to pastor your church that you had no idea about concerning his beliefs and practices? Of course this question is ridiculous, but then this is exactly what we do when we allow ourselves to be exposed to all the different teaching, even among IFB's.

A perfect example of what I am talking about is what we see going on here at OB, with some who claim to be IFB and yet have exposed themselves to so much that is not fundamental, or even Baptist that they become almost heretical.

 2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

And yet, you agree with "outside sources" here on OB?  LoL

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Oh, my goodness! This is what the argument of the month is now? Seriously?

Here's my take:

You answer for what comes into your home. If God has shown you that you ought not have the Sword, then you ought not have it. I am in agreement that there is sometimes stuff in there that ought not be, and that the paper is nothing like it was when the Rices edited it. The paper has reflected the changing thoughts in the IFB

That said, there is still some benefit to it. So if someone doesn't want it, accept that without making a federal case out of it. Discuss why you like it, fine. But don't try to make the case that the person who doesn't is just nit-picking. The truth of the matter is that as Christians today we don't nit-pick enough. If someone likes the paper, fine. Discuss why you don't without charging the person who does with crimes against Christianity (slight exaggeration there).

There are some pastors who encourage their people to read the Sword. There are some pastors who do not, but they do encourage folks to read O Timothy. There are even pastors who encourage their folks to read Revival Fires. And there are other publications that pastors like, too. If you're concerned about it, you could ask your pastor what he recommends. (FWIW, Revival Fires is an evangelistic paper. It is designed primarily to encourage people in their soulwinning efforts. I have not seen the paper in years, so I don't know what's being published, but I know Dennis personally and know that his burden has been souls from the get-go. That doesn't mean someone has to read the paper, though.)

But here's my issue.

John began a thread with a genuine concern that he has about a paper that he's read for years. Some agreement, some disagreement. But it's not the agreement or disagreement I think is the problem. It's the WAY it's been presented. For pities' sake - are we not adults? Can we not have a differing opinion about a NEWSPAPER without being charged with being hypocritical? Alan, I get that you like the Sword, and that's fine. But it's just not true that someone who doesn't want to pay to receive the Sword because of its content is a hypocrite if they come here to OB. (for no other fact that nobody pays to be on OB, for just one thing). Rather than going on the attack, would it not have been better to say hey, I like the paper - could you give specific examples of what you don't like about it. FWIW, this repentance issue may not have affected you or folks you know, but it most certainly has had an effect on churches. I've seen it and heard it personally. It's a serious danger that needs to be taken seriously, not dismissed because it hasn't affected one personally. And, apparently Cloud isn't so harsh that his paper isn't widely read even amongst folks here...

(Edited to add: the above paragraph is not an attack on or endorsement of anyone...and it is not an open window to pile on anyone, either. Sad that I feel the need to add that.)

I also agree with Jim, to a certain extent. Too many people go outside their churches for their doctrinal teaching. That can be dangerous. This is where discernment needs to come in. God's Word teaches us that we are to be careful of what we allow into our lives via our eyes, ears, etc. 

We  no longer get the Sword. We had it for years (in fact, we still have several of the first issues published). And we enjoyed it. After not receiving it for a good while, a friend got us a subscription. We enjoyed that, as well. We did notice that there were things that ought not be in a biblical publication. But we continued to read the good stuff. When the subscription ended, we opted not to renew it because we didn't want to add that expense to our budget.

We no longer get Revival Fires. As I said, I know Dennis personally (For a short time before he went into evangelism, he pastored the church my folks went to, and I worked for the evangelist he worked for. His wife and I were good friends, too.) and I know that he loves souls. However, there were reasons we quit getting the paper.

We have never subscribed to O Timothy simply because we haven't. We've read many of the issues, and we do like Bro. Cloud (we also know him personally).

We no longer get BBB. There are biblical reasons for that. 'Nuff said.

There are other papers that we used to get that we no longer do. For a variety of reasons.

People choose what comes into their homes. If their choice doesn't line up with yours, great! Discuss why. We all purport to love the Lord. Can we not have ONE conversation without snide, stupid, belittling remarks, defensive attacks, etc.?

 

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