Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

MountainChristian

What was Jesus' mission?

Recommended Posts

Matthew 1:21 And she (Mary) shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The question becomes who is "his people". Some teach this is the Jewish Nation. They are Mary's people and Jesus is Mary's son. What did Jesus say? 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Well that would mean everyone is "his people". God owning all the people, Jews & Gentiles.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Notice how Jesus uses the word "He" making it personal. So Jesus is saying salvation is personal not national. Did Jesus save his people from their sins? Do Jews have the way to Heaven? Do Gentiles have the way to Heaven? Is Jesus the way to salvation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, MountainChristian said:

Matthew 1:21 And she (Mary) shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The question becomes who is "his people". Some teach this is the Jewish Nation. They are Mary's people and Jesus is Mary's son. What did Jesus say? 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Well that would mean everyone is "his people". God owning all the people, Jews & Gentiles.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Notice how Jesus uses the word "He" making it personal. So Jesus is saying salvation is personal not national. Did Jesus save his people from their sins? Do Jews have the way to Heaven? Do Gentiles have the way to Heaven? Is Jesus the way to salvation?

All you say is true but remember the gospel of John was written way after Matthew and even Paul's revelation. The gospel went first to the Jew then to the Gentile. 

Matthew 10:5-7

[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
[6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

The Gentiles are the other sheep he was to bring into the fold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Luke 1:32-33 [angel to Mary] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Sounds pretty Jewish to me
 
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:  Romans 15:8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, beameup said:
Luke 1:32-33 [angel to Mary] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Sounds pretty Jewish to me
 
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathersRomans 15:8

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Why do you only quote half of that thought?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, MountainChristian said:

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

Why do you only quote half of that thought?

 

 

Because the Jews never fulfilled that "mission".  Read your Old Testament.  Israel will become a light unto the Gentiles during the Millennium. 

I started a thread on the "Kingdom".  The verses are there.  It has not been fulfilled yet.  Isaiah 42:6, 49:6, 60:3, Luke 2:32, Acts 13:47, etc.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.  Romans 11:26-28
Edited by beameup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, beameup said:

Because the Jews never fulfilled that "mission".  Read your Old Testament.  Israel will become a light unto the Gentiles during the Millennium. 

I started a thread on the "Kingdom".  The verses are there.  It has not been fulfilled yet.  Isaiah 42:6, 49:6, 60:3, Luke 2:32, Acts 13:47, etc.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.  Romans 11:26-28

 

Jesus said in John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. if you are correct wouldn't Jesus say, You are the light of the world?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Matthew 9:1 ¶ And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city.

Mark 2:1 ¶ And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.

Mark 2:2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.

Mark 2:3 And they come unto him, bringing one sick of the palsy, which was borne of four.

Mark 2:4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

Matthew 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Matthew 9:3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.

Mark 2:6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,

Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Matthew 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

Mark 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?

Matthew 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?

Mark 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?

Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Mark 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

Mark 2:11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.

Matthew 9:7 And he arose, and departed to his house.

Mark 2:12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.

Matthew 9:8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

~~~~~

What did Jesus see? Faith or Works? What group said Jesus did not have the power to forgive sins when he saw faith?

How did the Jewish Apostle put it, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Would a Jewish man count as any man? Would a Gentile man count as any man?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MountainChristian said:

 

Jesus said in John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. if you are correct wouldn't Jesus say, You are the light of the world?

Doesn't the verse he quoted say that the nation of Israel would be a light to the Gentiles? Didn't Jesus say Christians are a light in this world? I don't see what the problem is. The Gentiles will be drawn to Christ through how he deals with his people. Just think of it as the moon reflecting the light of the sun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Critical Mass said:

Doesn't the verse he quoted say that the nation of Israel would be a light to the Gentiles? Didn't Jesus say Christians are a light in this world? I don't see what the problem is. The Gentiles will be drawn to Christ through how he deals with his people. Just think of it as the moon reflecting the light of the sun.

Doesn't the verse he quoted say that the nation of Israel would be a light to the Gentiles? No.

1) Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

                   I the LORD have called Jesus in righteousness, and will hold Jesus' hand, and will keep Jesus, and give Jesus for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; Was Jesus given for a new covenant? Yes.

                 Beameup's view. I the LORD have called Jews in righteousness, and will hold Jews' hand, and will keep Jews, and give Jews for a covenant of the Jews, for a light of the Gentiles;

1b) Isaiah 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. As you can see Beameup only quotes half of the thought. The whole thought removes all doubt that it was Jesus opening the eyes and freeing sinners from the prison of sin. When the apostles healed people it was always in Jesus' name, not because they was Jewish.

2) Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

                   And he said, It is a light thing that Jesus shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give Jesus for a light to the Gentiles, that Jesus mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins.   

                 Beameup's teaching. And he said, It is a light thing that Jews shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give Jews for a light to the Gentiles, that Jews mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Did Jews die on the cross for their own sins and the sins of the gentiles?

3) Isaiah 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

               And the Gentiles shall come to Jesus' light, and kings to the brightness of Jesus rising. Have gentiles been saved by Jesus? Have kings been saved by Jesus?

4) Luke 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

                     A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of Jesus' people Israel. vs A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of Jews people Israel. Which one makes sense?

5) Acts 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

                    For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set Jesus to be a light of the Gentiles, that Jesus shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

 

Didn't Jesus say Christians are a light in this world? Yes. Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Notice the Ye is Christians like you said and they have been a light for 2000 years while Jesus has been gone. If the Ye is Jews, have they been a light to the world for the last 2000 years? No, they have not. And Jesus said "are". They was already that light.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isaiah 49:6
the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.  And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. Isaiah 60:2b-3
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. Luke 2:32   [Simeon in the Temple at the dedication of Jesus by his parents]
 
The Old Testament is loaded with prophecies concerning the Messiah and his Kingdom on earth, and that the glory of Israel will shine unto the Gentiles and that they will be blessed. 
These prophecies will be fulfilled following the Tribulation.  (I guess that some people simply cannot accept that God has a future plan for Israel).
 
And he [Messiah] said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places. Ezekiel 43:7 [Ezekiel is shown all things concerning the Millennial Temple in chapters 40-48]
Edited by beameup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, beameup said:
I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isaiah 49:6
the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.  And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. Isaiah 60:2b-3
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. Luke 2:32   [Simeon in the Temple at the dedication of Jesus by his parents]
 
The Old Testament is loaded with prophecies concerning the Messiah and his Kingdom on earth, and that the glory of Israel will shine unto the Gentiles and that they will be blessed. 
These prophecies will be fulfilled following the Tribulation.  (I guess that some people simply cannot accept that God has a future plan for Israel).
 
And he [Messiah] said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places. Ezekiel 43:7 [Ezekiel is shown all things concerning the Millennial Temple in chapters 40-48]

I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6

Who is thee? Jesus or the Jewish People? Did the LORD give the Jewish people for a covenant of the people? Did the LORD give Jesus for a covenant that we call the New Testament?

~~~~

The Old Testament is loaded with prophecies concerning the Messiah and his Kingdom on earth, and that the glory of Israel will shine unto the Gentiles and that they will be blessed. 

Let me ask you this, Who is the glory of Israel? Is Israel their own glory or is Jesus their glory?

Was Jesus' mission to set up a kingdom or save people from their sins?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

 The Old Testament is loaded with prophecies concerning the Messiah and his Kingdom on earth, and that the glory of Israel will shine unto the Gentiles and that they will be blessed. 

Let me ask you this, Who is the glory of Israel? Is Israel their own glory or is Jesus their glory?

Was Jesus' mission to set up a kingdom or save people from their sins?

 

 

 

 

And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant [Jesus] to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isaiah 49:6
Clearly, Israel will serve Yeshua Messiah and fulfill their destiny, during the Millennium, to be a light to the Gentiles.  Jesus obediently ministered to his "kinsmen", and the Kingdom was offered to them; however, the Nation of Israel rejected their destiny.... "for now".  Romans 15:8
 
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you [Israel]: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.  Acts 13:46-47
We see that the Jews rejected their mission to be a light to the Gentiles, so the Gospel was taken directly to the Gentiles, and the Gentiles would fulfill the mission that was offered to Israel.  However, during the Millennium, Israel will fulfill their mission to be a light unto the Gentiles. [see Romans 11]
Edited by beameup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, beameup said:
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant [Jesus] to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isaiah 49:6
Clearly, Israel will serve Yeshua Messiah and fulfill their destiny, during the Millennium, to be a light to the Gentiles.  Jesus obediently ministered to his "kinsmen", and the Kingdom was offered to them; however, the Nation of Israel rejected their destiny.... "for now".  Romans 15:8
 
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you [Israel]: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.  Acts 13:46-47
We see that the Jews rejected their mission to be a light to the Gentiles, so the Gospel was taken directly to the Gentiles, and the Gentiles would fulfill the mission that was offered to Israel.  However, during the Millennium, Israel will fulfill their mission to be a light unto the Gentiles. [see Romans 11]
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant [Jesus] to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee [Jesus] for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isaiah 49:6

I will also give thee, refers back to my servant. Even Jesus Himself explained it John 8:12. Do you believe Jesus?

Then Paul and Barnabas[two Christian Jews] waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you [Israel]: but seeing ye  put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we [Christian Jews] turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.  Acts 13:46-47

Using your reasoning they fulfilled the missionary calling because it was Christian Jews who spread the light of Jesus to the Gentiles not long after Jesus returned to Heaven. This is a perfect example of Christians living Matthew 5:14. I think you agree Saul/Paul was a Jew. So what about Barnabas? (Act 4:36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, Act 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.)

Paul speaking in (Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.) explained Jesus suffered, Jesus rose from the dead, Jesus shinned to the people, Jesus shinned to the Gentiles.

When every eye sees Jesus return do you think they will not know who he is?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

 Was Jesus' mission to set up a kingdom or save people from their sins?

 

 

 

 

I'll just leave this with you to "ponder":

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Colossians 1:25-27
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he [Jesus] made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Ephesians 3:2-6
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9
Paul is stating here that this "mystery" was previously hidden and now is revealed directly to Paul by the risen Jesus Christ, from heaven.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: If I'm not mistaken, the world will be "ruled with a rod of iron" by Jesus Messiah during the Millennial Kingdom.  This surely sounds like Gentiles will be under a rule of LAW to me.
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations [Gentiles]: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Rev 2:26-27
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Psalm 2:8-9
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, beameup said:

I'll just leave this with you to "ponder":

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Colossians 1:25-27
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he [Jesus] made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Ephesians 3:2-6
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9
Paul is stating here that this "mystery" was previously hidden and now is revealed directly to Paul by the risen Jesus Christ, from heaven.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: If I'm not mistaken, the world will be "ruled with a rod of iron" by Jesus Messiah during the Millennial Kingdom.  This surely sounds like Gentiles will be under a rule of LAW to me.
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations [Gentiles]: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Rev 2:26-27
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Psalm 2:8-9
 

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Colossians 1:25-27

Jewish Paul told the Colossians he was made a minister, not the only minister. Again Jewish Paul told the Colossians the mystery is now revealed to his saints. He never said saint meaning only himself.  

If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he [Jesus] [Holy Spirit] made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Ephesians 3:2-6

Jewish Paul tells the Ephesians it was the spirit that revealed the mystery to him and too other apostles and prophets.

Paul is stating here that this "mystery" was previously hidden and now is revealed directly to Paul by the risen Jesus Christ, from heaven.

Yes, Paul is saying it was previously hidden. No, Paul said the Spirit revealed it to him, and that the Spirit revealed it the other apostles and prophets.  John 15:26-27 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

Yes, Paul is saying it was previously hidden. No, Paul said the Spirit revealed it to him, and that the Spirit revealed it the other apostles and prophets

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The gospel was hid in the OT. It was there (mostly in type) and the prophets earnestly sought it out but it was hidden (I Peter 1:10-12). In fact, not even the twelve Disciples understood what Jesus was talking about when he told them of his death, burial and resurrection (Luke 18:31-34). And this was AFTER he commanded them to go forth and preach the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom gospel they preached was NOT the death, burial and resurrection gospel that we preach today. That gospel was revealed to Paul who made it known to all the saints including Peter himself (Romans 16:25,26). Also, along with this revelation went the truth that Jew and Gentile would be united in one body called the church (i.e. the body of Christ). Anything that John may have written about was AFTER Paul's revelation and was brought back to his remembrance in due time by the Holy Ghost (John 14:26). This would explain why John's gospel is so much different than Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Read the verses. It's clear as midday sky. Only those set in the teachings of their denomination or the "original languages" over the bible will not see it. 

Edited by Critical Mass

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

4 minutes ago, Critical Mass said:

The gospel was hid in the OT. It was there (mostly in type) and the prophets earnestly sought it out but it was hidden (I Peter 1:10-12). In fact, not even the twelve Disciples understood what Jesus was talking about when he told them of his death, burial and resurrection (Luke 18:31-34). And this was AFTER he commanded them to go forth and preach the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom gospel they preached was NOT the death, burial and resurrection gospel that we preach today. That gospel was revealed to Paul who made it known to all the saints including Peter himself (Romans 16:25,26). Also, along with this revelation went the truth that Jew and Gentile would be united in one body called the church (i.e. the body of Christ). Anything that John may have written about was AFTER Paul's revelation and was brought back to his remembrance in due time by the Holy Ghost (John 14:26). This would explain why John's gospel is so much different than Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Read the verses. It's clear as midday sky. Only those set in the teachings of their denomination or the "original languages" over the bible will not see it. 

So, based on this theory of two distinct Gospels; one for Jew which entails works mingled with faith and the other for gentiles without works:

Could a Jew be saved upon the preaching of Paul? Either orthodox or secular Jew?

Could a gentile be saved upon the preaching of Peter?

If yes to both, wouldn't it make much more sense to realize that this is simply wording for understanding to the two groups but the same faith producing works Gospel?

BTW, you are stretching to breakage on the statement I bolded in your post above. All Scripture is given by direct inspiration of God, OLD and NEW Testaments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Colossians 1:25-27

Jewish Paul told the Colossians he was made a minister, not the only minister. Again Jewish Paul told the Colossians the mystery is now revealed to his saints. He never said saint meaning only himself.  

If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he [Jesus] [Holy Spirit] made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Ephesians 3:2-6

 

 

1 hour ago, Ronda said:

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

Galatians 1:16-17

To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Galatians 1:18 ¶ Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

You will notice Paul never said he went up to heaven and had private lessons with Jesus, and Paul never said Jesus descended from Heaven and gave him private lessons. Was Jesus in Arabia, or was Jesus seated at the right hand of God the Father? Did Jesus return on the clouds and every eye see Jesus, so Jesus could teach Paul?

 

Matthew 26:26-28 ¶ And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

This is my blood which is shed for a kingdom or remission of sins?

Hebrews 9:11-12 ¶ But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Glory be to Jesus for going to the cross to die for Jewish peoples sins and Gentile peoples sins and my sins. Thanks be to Jesus for having mercy on this hillbilly wretch. I get to live with Jesus forever and ever!!! If Jesus had failed his mission or if people had prevented Jesus from accomplishing his mission I would be on my way to hell. There would be no remission of sins.

The kingdom teaching removes focus from salvation. Hide the cross, expose the kingdom. Keep people in their sins.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 2/19/2016 at 8:52 PM, MountainChristian said:

What was Jesus' Mission?

 

"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” - Mark 2:17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, beameup said:

Two missions. One was not fulfilled, but was postponed. When the fullness of the gentiles be come in, then Israel will be saved and the original mission will be consummated with the Millennial Kingdom.

 

Those that teach Jesus' mission was the kingdom also teach the law. This is the offering they teach for sins.

Exodus 29:10-14 ¶ And thou shalt cause a bullock to be brought before the tabernacle of the congregation: and Aaron and his sons shall put their hands upon the head of the bullock. And thou shalt kill the bullock before the LORD, by the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And thou shalt take of the blood of the bullock, and put it upon the horns of the altar with thy finger, and pour all the blood beside the bottom of the altar. And thou shalt take all the fat that covereth the inwards, and the caul that is above the liver, and the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, and burn them upon the altar. But the flesh of the bullock, and his skin, and his dung, shalt thou burn with fire without the camp: it is a sin offering.

This was done once a year for all the people.

Exodus 30:10 And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the LORD.

When the priests or the people sinned ignorantly a special sin offering was needed. How many times a day does a man sin? How many bulls would it take to make offerings for all those sins?

Lev 4:1-12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned, a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering. And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD. And the priest that is anointed shall take of the bullock's blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation: And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the vail of the sanctuary. And the priest shall put some of the blood upon the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the LORD, which is in the tabernacle of the congregation; and shall pour all the blood of the bullock at the bottom of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And he shall take off from it all the fat of the bullock for the sin offering; the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards, And the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away, As it was taken off from the bullock of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall burn them upon the altar of the burnt offering. And the skin of the bullock, and all his flesh, with his head, and with his legs, and his inwards, and his dung, Even the whole bullock shall he carry forth without the camp unto a clean place, where the ashes are poured out, and burn him on the wood with fire: where the ashes are poured out shall he be burnt.

Now under the law if a man sinned willfully there was no bull to be offered. What happened to him? Here is an example.

Num 15:32-36 ¶ And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

So we see a few sticks could cost a man his life. The two gospel teachers say Jesus will return us to this system when he becomes King, but what does the Bible say?

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Look how that was address to Hebrews or Jews so they could understand bulls and goats will never get the job done. So what was needed?

Hebrews 10:5-10 ¶ Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

As you can see the Bible says once for all. All covers everybody in all history. And Jesus only had to do it once. So we see Jesus did accomplish His mission. The Kingdom wasn't his mission and it wasn't postponed.

John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

We see they accepted Jesus if he would become King and restore the kingdom but Jesus was here to be the Lamb and take away their sins. They rejected Jesus because he was a lamb slain from the foundation of the world. People are still rejecting Jesus because he came to be a Lamb for everyone's sins.

Can you see Jesus' mission? Can you see Jesus fulfilled that mission on hill called Calvary?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, beameup said:

I would suggest that Ezekiel 40-48 shows that temple worship will be reinstated and sacrifices reestablished during the Millennium under Messiah.

 Heb 8:6 ¶ But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 
 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 
 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 
 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 
 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 
 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 
 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 
 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, beameup said:

I would suggest that Ezekiel 40-48 shows that temple worship will be reinstated and sacrifices reestablished during the Millennium under Messiah.

 Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 
 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Similar Content

    • By Roselove
      I know someone that I suspect is probably not saved. He has caused me some emotional issues, he’s kind of manipulative and erratic I guess, but I won’t get into much of that. 
      He told me of how he tried to kill Himself a few years ago and just a bunch of other strange stuff. 
      I’m very concerned for this guy. From what I’ve seen on his posts years ago on Facebook, he was raised Catholic. So I assume that he might have a skewed idea of Christianity, if in fact he even considers himself one (I don’t know). 
      I would love for someone to talk to him. He lives across the country from me and I know that if someone I know locally, adds him/messages him, he would know that I was the one who got them to speak with him. There’s some reasons that I feel that would cause an issue. 
      Is there anyone that doesn’t live in Texas, that could maybe talk to him? If so, please message me on here and I will give you his Facebook info. Knowing his personality, I’m pretty sure he’d add anyone. 
    • By MrsJ88
      Hi there. I'm brand new to this wonderful page. I would like to ask for God's will to be done in this custody case. My daughter is in that delicate stage, wanting to be saved but still a little bit unclear about what it truly means. Her father is atheist, and filling her with the nonsense that he believes. He is also in the process of trying to break up my marriage and the family we have. He wants to take my daughter and have her full time. This would be detrimental to her. Both mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Please, if you would pray that he see God, and that he realizes how desperately he needs God, and the salvation he offers. Also, please let me know what I can pray for, for you. Thank you! God Bless!
      Melissa.
    • By Roselove
      Came across this, was a little confused. Can you guys explain this to me? Thanks! 
      https://billmounce.com/monday-with-mounce/are-you-saved-or-are-you-being-saved”-1-cor-15-2 
      http://www.simplybible.com/f066.htm
    • By Jordan Kurecki
      Thanks to those who prayed for me, and gave to me to go to Uganda last summer. For those who saw my video update, I mentioned a man named Fanuel, I had gotten to go and share the Gospel with him at his hut and he got saved, then proceeded to come to our meetings that same evening and gave a public testimony of salvation:
      Here is a picture of him from the day he got saved in summer of 2016. Then I received another picture from my friend over in Uganda of this second picture, which was him at the Church today, one year later, attending soul winning training! Praise God
       


    • By Roselove
      So, I've been wondering something for quite sometime. 
      Ive noticed that people who have a struggle with doubting their salvation and those who are afraid of having committed the unpardonable sin, tend to have these fears, for a very long time. It seems that it's nearly impossible for them to have enough assurance for them to stop fearing and obsessing over it. 
      Ive been going through this for over 5 years and have read many others talking about this, too. It tends to take years for people to get over these fears, that is, if they ever do. 
      Why is this particular problem, so extremely hard to get under control? I have clinical OCD, so I'm sure it contributes, the others might have this problem, too, but why won't God take away these terrible fears and obsessions, over whether or not we are saved or have committed the unpardonable sin? 
      I know that He wants us to know whether we are saved or lost or if we are forgiveable. I know that someone cannot effectively do His will, without this i would think, so why is this particular problem so hard to overcome, even with fervent prayer? I understand that God works in His timing and that we have to suffer at times in this life, sometimes for many years, but I wouldn't think that this kind of thing, would be one of the things that would be helpful to go through? I'm not sure? 
      What do you all think, about this? 
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 20 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...