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Temple was not located on the "Temple Mount"?


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2 hours ago, beameup said:

It means that the Temple can immediately be built, as the land is under Israeli control, not Muslim control.  Get ready for the rapture.

That's how some pre-trib books and movies format their stories with the construction of the temple at a place other than where the Dome of the Rock is located. In these books and movies Christians automatically take note of this and know the rapture is about to happen so they tell their families and friends, who typically dismiss the call to salvation. In some the anti-christ is revealed at this time and the Christians make a Gospel pitch to their loved ones based upon this but again are rebuffed. Then the rapture occurs (or occurs after the completion of the temple and anti-christ is then revealed after the rapture) and in most of the stories many of those who rejected the Gospel suddenly recognize what's going on and they are saved and band together to form an underground resistance movement to fight the anti-christ and his agenda (you know, just like Scripture says...NOT!).

Considering it seems Orthodox Jews are the ones most intent upon rebuilding the temple it will be their word upon where the temple must be built that will likely prevail. Are any Orthodox Jewish groups intent upon rebuilding the temple considering any location other than where the Dome of the Rock sits as being where the temple must be built?

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Anyway you are a bit late with the rapture, it was going to take place on 14th July 1835 according to the Irvingites. In his Morning Watch magazine, Irving said he began teaching dispenstionalism on Christmas Day 1825. You are not likely to be any more correct than they were. 

 2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first, and that man of sin  shall be revealed....

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No doubt, everyone who has predicted the date of the rapture has been wrong.

The Seventh Day Aventists formed out of false predictions of the date of the rapture:

The Seventh-day Adventist Church formed out of the movement known today as the Millerites. In 1831, a Baptist convert, William Miller, was asked by a Baptist to preach in their church and began to preach that the Second Advent of Jesus would occur somewhere between March 1843 and March 1844, based on his interpretation of Daniel 8:14. A following gathered around Miller that included many from the Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian and Christian Connection churches. In the summer of 1844, some of Miller's followers promoted the date of October 22. They linked the cleansing of the sanctuary of Daniel 8:14 with the Jewish Day of Atonement, believed to be October 22 that year. By 1844, over 100,000 people were anticipating what Miller had called the "Blessed Hope". On October 22 many of the believers were up late into the night watching, waiting for Christ to return and found themselves bitterly disappointed when both sunset and midnight passed with their expectations unfulfilled. This event later became known as the Great Disappointment.

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On 2/15/2016 at 9:16 PM, beameup said:

And as they went about to kill him [Paul in the Temple], tidings came unto the chief captain of the band [Roman chief captain], that all Jerusalem was in an uproar. Who [Roman captain] immediately took soldiers and centurions, and ran down unto them [from Antonia Fortress to the Temple]: and when they saw the chief captain and the soldiers, they [Jews] left beating of Paul. Acts 21:31-32

The Romans rescued Paul from the Jews by "running down" from the fortress to the Temple.  Clearly, the Word of God identifies the location as being "lower" than the Roman garrison.  In fact, the "threshing floor" location of the Temple is 600 feet below the Roman Antonia Fortress (ie: Temple Mount).  In fact, the real Temple was so obliterated by the Romans (not only in 70AD, but about 139AD as well) that there remain "no stone upon another".  Modern Jews reject Jesus because the "wailing wall" still remains, as they claim that Jesus made a false prophecy of "no stone upon another".

So much for "Josephus"....small-details-make-big-difference-inspir

Wouldn't Mount Moriah make it one of the highest points within the city? And couldn't they running down be a reference to them running down the stairs of the tower of the fortress?

Edited by Critical Mass
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19 hours ago, beameup said:

Here is a side-view of the ridge upon which was built the Antonia Fortress, the Temple, and the City of David (far right):

 

Temple Mount side-view.jpg

Interesting. Where exactly is the Dome of the Rock located today. Where Fort Antonia is or the Temple platform?

It's still strange that the scripture says that the temple was located at Mt. Moriah yet in that diagram above it's just a slope on a hill. 

18 hours ago, beameup said:

It means that the Temple can immediately be built, as the land is under Israeli control, not Muslim control.  Get ready for the rapture.

I still think the Antichrist will level the Dome of the Rock. This is how he'll incur favor with the Jews. 

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3 hours ago, Critical Mass said:

Interesting. Where exactly is the Dome of the Rock located today. Where Fort Antonia is or the Temple platform?

It's still strange that the scripture says that the temple was located at Mt. Moriah yet in that diagram above it's just a slope on a hill. 

I still think the Antichrist will level the Dome of the Rock. This is how he'll incur favor with the Jews. 

Actually, if you look at the topography, "Mt. Moriah" is at the highest and farthest point northward.  That is where Abraham offered up Isaac and later where the crucifixions were held. The ridgeline slopes downward from Antonia Fortress and there is a causeway between that and the "threshing floor" where Solomon's Temple was built.  So, the Romans would have had to come DOWN steps and across the causeway to get to the Temple and rescue Paul. And the Romans were forbidden to enter the Temple itself. This whole conjecture places the judgment before Pilate at the stone outcropping upon which the Dome of the Rock is now located, which was well WITHIN the Roman fortress.  There are already major discoveries being uncovered in the City of David (which is firmly in Jewish control).   You can bet that as soon as an undeniable archeological find pinpointing the Temple location is made in the City of David, there will be a tremendous rush to erect that Temple (some believe that the stones have already been cut and ready for assembly).

"he as God sitteth in the temple of God" - 2 Thes 2:4b

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Herod's Temple by Josephus

CHAPTER 11. 

Herod rebuilds the temple. 19-8 BC 

1. (380) And now Herod, in the eighteenth year of his reign, and after the acts already mentioned, undertook a very great work, that is, to build by himself the temple of God, {a } and make it larger in size, and to raise it to a most magnificent height, as esteeming it to be the most glorious of all his actions, as it really was, to bring it to perfection, and that this would be sufficient for an everlasting memorial of him; (381) but as he knew the multitude were not ready nor willing to assist him in so vast a design, he thought to prepare them first by making a speech to them, and then set about the work itself; so he called them together, and spoke thus to them: —  ( 382) “I think I need not speak to you, my countrymen, about such other works as I have done since I came to the kingdom, although I may say they have been performed in such a manner as to bring more security to you than glory to myself; (383) for I have neither been negligent in the most difficult times about what tended to ease your necessities, nor have the buildings I have made been so proper to preserve me as yourselves from injuries; and I imagine that, with God’s assistance, I have advanced the nation of the Jews to a degree of happiness which they never had before; (384) and for the particular edifices belonging to your own country, and your own cities, as also to those cities that we have lately acquired, which we have erected and greatly adorned, and thereby augmented the dignity of your nation, it seems to me a needless task to enumerate them to you, since you well know them yourselves; but as to that undertaking which I have a mind to set about at present, and which will be a work of the greatest piety and excellence that can possibly be undertaken by us, I will now declare it to you. (385) Our fathers, indeed, when they were returned from Babylon, built this temple to God Almighty, yet does it is not sixty cubits in its height; for so much did that first temple which Solomon built exceed this temple: (386) nor let anyone condemn our fathers for their negligence or want of piety herein, for it was not their fault that the temple was no higher; for they were Cyrus, and Darius, the son of Hystaspes, who determined the measures for its rebuilding; and it has been by reason of the subjection of those fathers of ours to them and to their posterity, and after them to the Macedonians, that they had not the opportunity to follow the original model of this sacred edifice, nor could raise it to its ancient height; (387) but since I am now, by God’s will, your governor, and I have had peace a long time, and have gained great riches and large revenues, and, what is the principal thing of all, I am at amity with, and well regarded by the Romans, who, if I may so say, are the rulers of the whole world, I will do my endeavour to correct that imperfection, which has arisen from the necessity of our affairs, and the slavery we have been under formerly, and to make a thankful return, after the most pious manner, to God, for what blessings I have received from him, by giving me this kingdom, and that by rendering his temple as complete as I am able.” 

2. (388) And this was the speech which Herod made to them: but still this speech frightened many of the people, as being unexpected by them; and because it seemed incredible, it did not encourage them, but put a damper on them, for they were afraid that he would pull down the whole edifice, and not be able to bring his intentions to perfection for its rebuilding; and this danger appeared to them to be very great, and the vastness of the undertaking to be such as could hardly be accomplished. (389) But while they were in this disposition, the king encouraged them, and told them he would not pull down their temple till all things were gotten ready for building it up entirely again. And since he promised them this beforehand, he did not break his word with them, (390) but got ready a thousand waggons, that were to bring stones for the building, and chose out ten thousand of the most skilful workmen, and bought a thousand sacerdotal garments for as many of the priests, and had some of them taught the arts of stone cutters, and others of carpenters, and then began to build; but not till everything was well prepared for the work. 

3. (391) So Herod took away the old foundations, and laid others, and erected the temple upon them, being in length a hundred cubits, and in height twenty additional cubits, which [twenty], upon the sinking of their foundations {b } fell down; and this part it was that we resolved to raise again in the days of Nero. (392) Now the temple was built of stones that were white and strong, and each of their length was twenty-five cubits, their height was eight, and their breadth about twelve; (393) and the whole structure, as also the structure of the royal cloister, was on each side much lower, but the middle was much higher, till they were visible to those who dwelt in the country for a great many miles, but chiefly to such as lived opposite them, and those who approached to them. (394) The temple had doors also at the entrance, and lintels over them, of the same height with the temple itself. They were adorned with embroidered veils, with their flowers of purple, and pillars interwoven; (395) and over these, but under the crown work, was spread out a golden vine, with its branches hanging down from a great height, the size and fine workmanship of which was a surprising sight to the spectators, to see what vast materials there were, and with what great skill the workmanship was done. (396) He also surrounded the entire temple with very large cloisters, contriving them to be in a due proportion thereto; and he laid out larger sums of money upon them than had been done before him, till it seemed that no one else had so greatly adorned the temple as he had done. There was a large wall to both the cloisters; which wall was itself the most prodigious work that was ever heard of by man. (397) The hill was a rocky ascent, that declined by degrees toward the east parts of the city, till it came to an elevated level. (398) This hill it was which Solomon, who was the first of our kings, by divine revelation, surrounded with a wall; it was of excellent workmanship upwards, and round the top of it. He also built a wall below, beginning at the bottom, which was surrounded by a deep valley; and, at the south side he laid rocks together, and bound them one to another with lead, and included some of the inner parts, till it proceeded to a great height, (399) and till both the size of the square edifice and its height were immense, and till the vastness of the stones in the front were plainly visible on the outside, yet so that the inward parts were fastened together with iron, and preserved the joints immovable for all future times. (400) When this work [for the foundation] was done in this manner, and joined together as part of the hill itself to the very top of it, he wrought it all into one outward surface, and filled up the hollow places which were about the wall, and made it a level on the external upper surface, and a smooth level also. This hill was walled all around, and in length half a mile, [the distance of] each angle containing in length an eighth of a mile: (401) but within this wall, and on the very top of all, there ran another wall of stone also, having, on the east quarter, a double cloister, of the same length with the wall; in the midst of which was the temple itself. This cloister looked to the gates of the temple; and it had been adorned by many kings in former times; (402) and around the entire temple were fixed the spoils taken from barbarous nations; all these had been dedicated to the temple by Herod, with the addition of those he had taken from the Arabians. 

4. (403) Now, on the north side [of the temple] was built a citadel, whose walls were square, and strong, and of extraordinary firmness. This citadel was built by the kings of the Asamonean family, who were also high priests before Herod, and they called it the Tower, in which were deposited the vestments of the high priest, which the high priest only put on at the time when he was to offer sacrifice. (404) These vestments King Herod kept in that place; and after his death they were under the power of the Romans, until the time of Tiberius Caesar; (405) under whose reign Vitellius, the governor of Syria, when he once came to Jerusalem, and had been most magnificently received by the multitude, he had a mind to make them some requital for the kindness they had shown him; so, upon their petition to have those holy vestments in their own power, he wrote about them to Tiberius Caesar, who granted his request; and this their power over the sacerdotal vestments continued with the Jews till the death of King Agrippa; (406) but after that, Cassius Longinus, who was governor of Syria, and Cuspius Fadus, who was procurator of Judea, enjoined the Jews to deposit those vestments in the Tower of Antonia, (407) for that they ought to have them in their power, as they formerly had. However, the Jews sent ambassadors to Claudius Caesar, to intercede with him for them; upon whose coming, King Agrippa, junior, being then at Rome, asked for and obtained the power over them from the emperor; who gave command to Vitellius, who was then commander in Syria, to give it to them accordingly. (408) Before that time, they were kept under the seal of the high priest, and of the treasurers of the temple; which treasurers, the day before a festival, went up to the Roman captain of the temple guards, and viewed their own seal, and received the vestments; and again when the festival was over, they brought it to the same place, and showed the captain of the temple guards their seal, which corresponded with his seal, and deposited them there. (409) And that these things were so, the afflictions that happened to us afterward [about them] are sufficient evidence; but for the tower itself, when Herod, the king of the Jews, had fortified it more firmly than before, in order to secure and guard the temple, he gratified Antony, who was his friend, and the Roman ruler, and then gave it the name of the Tower of Antonia. 

5. (410) Now, in the western quarters of the enclosure of the temple there were four gates; the first led to the king’s palace, and went to a passage over the intermediate valley; two more led to the suburbs of the city; and the last led to the other city, where the road descended down into the valley by a great number of steps, and there up again by the ascent; for the city lay opposite the temple in the manner of a theatre, and was surrounded with a deep valley along the entire south quarter; (411) but the fourth front of the temple, which was southward, had indeed itself gates in its middle, as also it had the royal cloisters, with three walks, which reached in length from the east valley to that on the west, for it was impossible it should reach any farther: (412) and this cloister deserves to be mentioned better than any other under the sun; for while the valley was very deep, and its bottom could not be seen, if you looked from above into the depth, this further vastly high elevation of the cloister stood upon that height, insomuch, that if anyone looked down from the top of the battlements, or down both those heights, he would be giddy, while his sight could not reach to such an immense depth. (413) This cloister had pillars that stood in four rows, one opposite the other all along, for the fourth row was interwoven into the wall, [which also was built of stone;] and the thickness of each pillar was such, that three men might, with their arms extended, fathom it round, and join their hands again, while its length was twenty-seven feet, with a double spiral at its basis; (414) and the number of all the pillars [in that court] was a hundred and sixty-two. Their capitals were made with sculptures after the Corinthian order, and caused an amazement [to the spectators], by reason of the grandeur of the whole. (415) These four rows of pillars included three intervals for walking in the middle of this cloister; two of which walks were made parallel to each other, and were contrived after the same manner; the breadth of each of them was thirty feet, the length was about six hundred feet, and the height fifty feet; but the breadth of the middle part of the cloister was one and a half of the other, and the height was double, for it was much higher than those on each side; (416) but the roofs were adorned with deep sculptures in wood, representing many sorts of figures. The middle was much higher than the rest, and the wall of the front was adorned with beams, resting upon pillars, that were interwoven into it, and that front was all of polished stone, insomuch that its fineness, to such as had not seen it, was incredible, and to such as had seen it, was greatly amazing. (417) Thus was the first enclosure. In the midst of which, and not far from it, was the second, to be gone up to by a few steps: this was surrounded by a stone wall for a partition, with an inscription, which forbade any foreigner to go in under pain of death. (418) Now this inner enclosure had on its southern and northern quarters three gates [equally] distant one from another; but on the east quarter, toward the sunrising, there was one large gate through which such as were pure came in, together with their wives; (419) but the temple further inward in that gate, was not allowed to the women; but still more inward was there a third [court of the] temple, whereinto it was not lawful for any but the priests alone to enter. The temple itself was within this; and before that temple was the altar, upon which we offer our sacrifices and burnt offerings to God. (420) Into none of these three did King Herod enter, {c } for he was forbidden, because he was not a priest. However, he took care of the cloisters and the outer enclosures, and these he built in eight years. 

6. (421) But the temple itself was built by the priests in a year and six months, upon which all the people were full of joy; and presently they returned thanks, in the first place, to God; and, in the next place, for the alacrity the king had showed. They feasted and celebrated this rebuilding of the temple: (422) and for the king, he sacrificed three hundred oxen to God, as did the rest, everyone according to his ability: the number of which sacrifices is not possible to set down; for it cannot be that we should truly relate it; (423) for at the same time with this celebration for the work about the temple fell also the day of the king’s inauguration, which he kept of an old custom as a festival, and it now coincided with the other, which coincidence of them both made the festival most illustrious. 

7. (424) There was also an occult passage built for the king: it led from Antonia to the inner temple, at its eastern gate; over which he also erected for himself a tower, that he might have the opportunity of a subterranean ascent to the temple, in order to guard against any sedition which might be made by the people against their kings. (425) It is also reported, {d } that during the time that the temple was building, it did not rain in the daytime, but that the showers fell in the nights, so that the work was not hindered. And this our fathers have delivered to us; nor is it incredible, if anyone have regard to the manifestations of God. And thus was performed the work of the rebuilding of the temple. 

{a } We may here observe, that the fancy of the modern Jews, in calling this temple, which was really the third of their temples, the second temple, followed so long by later Christians, seems to be without any solid foundation. The reason why the Christians here followed the Jews is, because of the prophecy of Haggai, {#Hag 2:6,9 } which they expound of the Messiah’s coming to the second or Zerubabel’s temple, of which they suppose this of Herod to be only a continuation; which is meant, I think, of his coming to the fourth and last temple, or to that future, largest, and most glorious one, described by Ezekiel; hence I take the former notion, however general, to be a great mistake. See Lit. Accomp. of Proph., p. 24. 

{b } Some of our modern students in architecture have made a strange blunder here, when they imagine that Josephus affirms the entire foundations of the temple or holy house sunk down into the rocky mountain on which it stood, no less than twenty cubits, whereas he is clear that they were the foundations of the additional twenty cubits only above the hundred (made perhaps weak on purpose, and only for show and grandeur) that sunk or fell down, as Dr. Hudson rightly understands him: nor is the thing itself possible in the other sense. Agrippa’s preparation for building the inner parts of the temple twenty cubits higher, {See Jospehus War, 5.1.5 364 @@ "(36)" } must in all probability refer to this matter, since Josephus says here, that this which had fallen down was designed to be raised up again under Nero, under whom Agrippa made that preparation. But what Josephus says presently, that Solomon was the first king of the Jews, appears by the parallel place, {See Josephus Antiq. 20.9.7 279 @@ "(221)" } and other places, to be meant only the first of David’s posterity, and the first builder of the temple. 

{c } “Into none Of these three did king Herod enter,” i.e. 1. Not into the court of the priests; 2. Nor into the holy house itself; 3. Nor into the separate place belonging to the altar, as the words following imply; for none but priests, or their attendants the Levites, might come into any of them, {See Josephus Antiq. 16.4.6 228 @@ "(132)" } when Herod goes into the temple, and makes a speech in it to the people; but that could only be into the court of Israel, where the people could come to hear him. 

{d } This tradition which Josephus here mentions, as delivered down from fathers to their children, of this particular remarkable circumstance relating to the building of Herod’s temple, is a demonstration that its building was a known thing in Judea at this time. He was born but forty-six years after it is related to have been finished, and might himself have seen and spoken with some of the builders themselves, and with a great number of those who had seen it building. The doubt therefore about the truth of this history of the pulling down and rebuilding this temple by Herod, which some weak people have indulged, was not then much greater than it soon may be, whether or not our St. Paul’s church in London was burnt down in the fire of London, A.D. 1666, and rebuilt by Sir Christopher Wren a little afterward. 

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