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John81

Rapture and Anti-Christ

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On Tuesday, March 15, 2016 at 0:35 AM, Invicta said:

Not sure what your point is here.

Basic Point is, All saints and sinners who died under old covenant went to 'hell', but some rested there, such as Samuel the prophet, those who Job mentioned, and presumably the other godly old testament saints, who we are told went down to 'hell'.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Old-Pilgrim said:

>>I kinda maybe think I know where this argument may have been heading...<< Hi, I have hear people before saying that there is nowhere in the Bible which says that Christians will go to heaven, what do you think this sort of argument is going?

I used to have a teacher who taught that.  I also know someone who believes that.  Actually he turned up at our service last Sunday morning.  He always collars someone after the service, usually the preacher, and gives them his views.  I told him to "give it a rest, we know your views.  Please keep them to yourself.  You are welcome to come if you listen to the preaching, but don;t come to spread your views."

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10 minutes ago, Invicta said:

I used to have a teacher who taught that.  I also know someone who believes that.  Actually he turned up at our service last Sunday morning.  He always collars someone after the service, usually the preacher, and gives them his views.  I told him to "give it a rest, we know your views.  Please keep them to yourself.  You are welcome to come if you listen to the preaching, but don;t come to spread your views."

I am guessing that they somehow think that if their is only one church and one heaven and one earth, we need to go to one or the other, so they decide it must be earth, because they can imagine that.

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7 hours ago, Old-Pilgrim said:

Hi, I have hear people before saying that there is nowhere in the Bible which says that Christians will go to heaven

"old pilgrim": Yes, you likely HAVE heard people say  that before, that there is (supposedly) nowhere in the Bible which says that Christians go to heaven. "People" say all KINDS of things.. especially undiscerning/unsaved people. But what does GOD have to say about it? That's the only answer that truly matters!  God's answer is found in God's word!

Romans 3:3-4 "For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?"  "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." 

God's word tells us exactly where "Christians" (those who have accepted and believed upon Jesus alone for salvation in the age of grace) will go... I gave many examples in the last post. "People" can either choose of their own free will to believe God's word or to reject it. I can't make anyone believe His word, no-one can force another person to believe God's word. Sorry, I can't help you with what "people say", only tell you that the answers are found in multiple verses in the Bible. 

 

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On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Invicta said:
On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 10:24 PM, Invicta said:

I used to have a teacher who taught that.  I also know someone who believes that.  Actually he turned up at our service last Sunday morning.  He always collars someone after the service, usually the preacher, and gives them his views.  I told him to "give it a rest, we know your views.  Please keep them to yourself.  You are welcome to come if you listen to the preaching, but don;t come to spread your views."

Arent you being a little authoritarian there?

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying....

1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

I would take it that 'any man' can have his say in the assembly (or pulpit if there is one) as long as there is some order. when this order isn't practiced, then revealed truth (or error) isn't aired, if the congregation are in Christ and hearing from the Spirit, then error will not take root, but if any man happens to have a modicum of truth, then the church can be edified and grow. As it is in most churches, the pulpit is guarded like like a prison door, and most of the brethren don't have much opportunity for airing any doctrine. Trying this in practice can seem to create a somewhat chaotic atmosphere at times, but in churches which do this, there does seem to be more simple local evangelism and souls saved.

 

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Edited by Old-Pilgrim

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13 minutes ago, John81 said:

How enlightening! I do believe I understand now. :D

 

13 minutes ago, John81 said:

How enlightening! I do believe I understand now. :D

Is that something I said, you quoted me as saying    '    ' and you are enlightened?

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I was born again in 1981 and I came to Christ after seeing the movie "Thief in the Night" at an Assembly of God church my girlfriend at the time talked me into attending. As most know, that film is based upon the pre-trib rapture view. That church held to that view and every Sunday night service was focused upon end-times matters. So most of my early born again learning on the matter was from books and sermons from the 1970s and early 80s. Everything I heard at the time indicated the Anti-Christ would not be known until after the Rapture. Over the past couple of years I'm hearing more and more that Christians will be here when the Anti-Christ takes the world stage and we will know who he is; the Rapture taking place sometime after that.

Why the shift from the predominate view being Christians wouldn't know who the Anti-Christ was because we would be raptured prior to his revealing, to the current view which says the Anti-Christ will be revealed before the Rapture so Christians will know who he is?

Hello John, this isn't a direct response to you question, but it is related to the topic, I was listening to a sermon about the mark of the beast by Ralph Yankee Arnold, I like him because of his teachings on the Gospel, but on his eschatology I think he used a bad method of interpreting. He had worked out a scheme based on the numbers found in the book of Daniel and Revelation which are both Apocalyptic in nature, they give a sort of birds eye view and are not what I would call foundational scriptures to build upon, he then went to 2Thesosalonians which is much more straight forward than Revelation and Daniel, and sort of lifted it up and plonked it into his system of things which was based on less clear scripture. I think 2Thesilonians is a better starting point on Eschatology than Revelation and Daniel, because it is straight forward and has a solid anchor in time.

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