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Old-Pilgrim

The Two Things Justification&Standing in Grace

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Romans 5:1 & 5:2 are talking about two different things.

V1 starts with ‘therefore’ and is summing up ‘Justification by faith

V2 is a change of topic and is about ‘Standing’, which is also accessed by faith and is also possible by Grace. The access is permanent and fixed, the entering and standing are down to us (many versions of the modern Bibles obscure this change and distinction of topic and make both verses about the one topic, Justification.)

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Edited by Old-Pilgrim
Clarification

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I have just checked some Comentaries, and Rom 5:1-2 & Rom 8:1 both have some alternate readings, and in Galatians 5:4 some translations read that we have been 'seperated from Christ'. I think this missunderstanding probably started long ago when someone who did not understand the word changed it to something which he could understand, apparently the reading of Romans 5:2 which Calvin chose had only one manuscript and two old translations to support it, it removed the word 'also'.

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You should not concern yourself with those Egyptian bibles as they are frauds, of the devil, designed to separate man from God.  Unlike the manuscripts that make up the Received Text and the King James Bible, the Critical Text has murky and obscure origins, it was supposedly hidden away for centuries and that fact alone exposes that it is not of God.  Sinaiticus in all likelihood did not exist before the 1840s.

As for the two verses, the second verse just builds upon the first.  A saved person has peace with God through Christ and therefore has hope in God's glory.  Grace is mentioned here as well, and grace is an unmerited, un paid for gift, the sacrifice of Christ, His shed blood, washing away our sins.  Christ is man's mediator between himself and God.  

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I see so many people run into trouble when they follow the advice and guidance of some to read several different Bible versions to get a better understanding of Scripture. This actually leads to confusion rather than clarity.

If a person can't fully grasp what the KJB is saying in a particular verse or passage pray for the Holy Spirit to help and pray for the Lord to send someone who can help you understand...or go to someone you already know who can be of help.

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On Sunday, February 07, 2016 at 5:20 AM, swathdiver said:

You should not concern yourself with those Egyptian bibles as they are frauds, of the devil, designed to separate man from God.  Unlike the manuscripts that make up the Received Text and the King James Bible, the Critical Text has murky and obscure origins, it was supposedly hidden away for centuries and that fact alone exposes that it is not of God.  Sinaiticus in all likelihood did not exist before the 1840s.

As for the two verses, the second verse just builds upon the first.  A saved person has peace with God through Christ and therefore has hope in God's glory.  Grace is mentioned here as well, and grace is an unmerited, un paid for gift, the sacrifice of Christ, His shed blood, washing away our sins.  Christ is man's mediator between himself and God.  

I know that the corrupt Bibles are corrupt, IE the Alexandrian few, the basis for the critical text and modern Bibles, but thanks for pointing that out, and I'm guessing that you saw Tares among the Wheat' by Chris Pinto on the Sinaticus. My OP had some technical difficulties...

But on your point that the second verse building on the first, I don't agree with you there, but there is some of the critical manuscripts do, but they have done their usual and changed the text by omitting the word 'also', some omit 'by faith'. (if the text corruptors believed that the two verses ought to be more definitely speaking of justification only, then that might be good enough cause to re-examine the text)

And it is not accurate to say that Grace is an unmerited, un-paid for gift, our salvation is an unmerited, un-paid for gift.

Also if God freely gives us any other thing along with this eternal salvation, that too would be by grace.

And one of the things which he also gives us freely is the access by which we can boldly approach the throne of Grace.

 

If you look at V2 Romans 5:2  By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

This is talking about 'the walk' or specifically 'the Stand' here on earth not our eternal position of being seated and rested in Christ in heavenly places.

see also for example.

Ephesians 6:14  Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

Ephesians 6:13  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Galatians 5:1  Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians is about how to 'Walk in Grace', or 'liberty', to fall from Grace cannot be done by a non Christian since they were never in a position of Grace nor did they ever stand by grace, but a Christian who is truly saved by Grace and then tries to be Perfected or sanctified by the flesh will fall from grace. And could end up in the condition of the man in the second half of chapter seven in Romans.

 

 

On Sunday, February 07, 2016 at 7:23 PM, John81 said:

I see so many people run into trouble when they follow the advice and guidance of some to read several different Bible versions to get a better understanding of Scripture. This actually leads to confusion rather than clarity.

If a person can't fully grasp what the KJB is saying in a particular verse or passage pray for the Holy Spirit to help and pray for the Lord to send someone who can help you understand...or go to someone you already know who can be of help.

I would pretty much agree with you there John81, but I would use a Strongs Greek dictionary also (with caution) I also refere to the reformation Bibles believing them to be sincere works. When I get tired my ability to do good gamer gets somewhat diminished :( So maybe I should do a big edit on my OP.

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The point I was trying to make about the CT versions, is that in Rom 5:1-2 they 'clarify' their view which is that both verses are about the same topic of Justification, so most modern versions read as such, whereas most of the old TR versions leave room for the division of the verses into two separate things. As I read it the 'Therefore' is by way of summary on Justification, and the 'Also' is leading onto the new topic of how walk the Christian walk.

Romans 5:1-2  Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

I do believe that the AV translators would make great effort to leave any ambiguity in the English if it is there in the Greek, and thus the reader if led correctly can divide it where it aught to be divided.

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On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 6:07 PM, swathdiver said:

Hmm.  Never heard of Pinto.  A saved person is only righteous through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.  Christ is our mediator between God and ourselves.  Gotta run!!

I agree with you there, but why have you gotto to run? In the New Covenant teachings two things, The Straight gate and the narrow path, salvation and sanctification, the faith and the walk, you know what I mean don't you? to help identify what is being taught in any particular passage, bear in mind that eternal salvation is a Gift and is an instantaneous event which happens after you first believe, that is passing through the straight gate, Sanctification is a process which takes time and growth and requires our cooperation with the Holy Spirit. Rom 5:1&5:2 are about the Gate and then the path. I guess I am trying to cut a fine slice with a blunt blade and poor light in a dark corridor.

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