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Pastor Scott Markle

The Book of Revelation & The Verb "Signified"

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I have never heard proof of the sybolism in Revelation as being supported by this one word Bro. Scott.

As for your other verses you mentioned way up the list of posts, I can see where the words do mean the same as "signified" in Rev. 1:1, yet not exactly.

I think the symbolism is quite noticeable in the whole book. And focusing on this one word is quite a weak stand indeed.

Thanks.

(My Bible says "shewed" by the way.)

Edited by Genevanpreacher

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Another way to describe signify, apart from figure that the scripture uses, would be representative.  One image represents a real person or country, etc.  The Harlot represents a false church, whereas the bride represents the true church., etc.  

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The title and Pastor Markle's discussion focuses greatly on the "verb" signified.  So I looked it up and the word "signified" is actually a noun, while the words "signify" and 'signifying' are verbs.  The definition of "signified" is "the meaning expressed by a sign rather than the physical form it is expressed in" (Collins dictionary).  As a noun the word "signified" combined with "it" (signified it) can describe a state or quality, that is the state of revelations being in signs or sketches rather than literal.  

A major problem with accepting that there is a mix is that people get to cherry pick which parts they consider literal and soon enough another revelation is born, a literal thousand years on earth after the resurrection is a long running beauty for example.  No Apostle mentioned this and it's nowhere else in the Bible, and Jesus refutes it in John 18:36 (also Romans 14:17 is worth looking up).

 

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10 hours ago, Paul said:

The title and Pastor Markle's discussion focuses greatly on the "verb" signified.  So I looked it up and the word "signified" is actually a noun, while the words "signify" and 'signifying' are verbs.  The definition of "signified" is "the meaning expressed by a sign rather than the physical form it is expressed in" (Collins dictionary).  As a noun the word "signified" combined with "it" (signified it) can describe a state or quality, that is the state of revelations being in signs or sketches rather than literal.  

A major problem with accepting that there is a mix is that people get to cherry pick which parts they consider literal and soon enough another revelation is born, a literal thousand years on earth after the resurrection is a long running beauty for example.  No Apostle mentioned this and it's nowhere else in the Bible, and Jesus refutes it in John 18:36 (also Romans 14:17 is worth looking up).

 

Understand from "the get-go" that I haven't read this thread. This post, therefore, has nothing to do in defense nor opposition to any contents of said thread. With all that stated:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.”

Would you care to take this sentence and show how, in the phrase "he sent and signified it", the word "signified" is used as a noun and not as the past tense of the verb (to) signify?
 

Incidentally, Webster's 1st edition has the following concerning both etymology and definition of the verb "signify" (which you acknowledged as a verb). So the past tense of such a "making known (def #4)" would be ...?

SIG'NIFY, v. t. [L. significo; signum, a sign, and facio, to make.]

4. To make known; to declare. The government should signify to the protestants of Ireland that want of silver is not to be remedied.

 

 

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On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 2:36 PM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Revelations 1:1-2 states, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.”

Due to the use of the verb “signified” in Revelation 1:1, some indicate that the book of the Revelation is to be taken as a prophetic communication of symbolism, rather than literalism.  So then, is this a valid understanding and restriction due to the use of the verb “signified”?

The verb “signify” in Revelation 1:1 is translated from the Greek verb “semaino.” This Greek verb is also employed five other times throughout the New Testament, and every one of those times it is translated with some form of the English verb “signify.”  These five other times are as follows:

John 12:32-33 – “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.  This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

John 18:31-32 – “Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death: that the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.”

John 21:18-19 – “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.  This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God.  And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.”

Acts 11:28 – “And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.”

Acts 25:27 – “For it seemeth to me unreasonable to send a prisoner, and not withal to signify the crimes laid against him.”

Now, there is not a single one of these five other uses for the Greek verb “semaino,” as translated by some form of the English verb “signify,” wherein the verb means “a communication of information through symbolism.”  Rather, in every one of these five cases, the verb means “a communication of information through description.”  As such, although the communication that is indicated by this verb may, or may not include some symbolism within the communication, the meaning of the verb itself does not at all indicate a communication with a focus upon communicating through symbolism, but rather indicates a communication with a focus upon communication through description.  Even so, although the prophetic utterances of the book of the Revelation may indeed include some symbolisms, the use of this verb in Revelation 1:1 would move us to expect, not a prophetic utterance that is primarily symbolic language, but a prophetic utterance that is primarily literal description.

(Note: There are two other Greek verbs that are also translated with some form of the English verb “signify.”  The first is the Greek verb “emphanizo” in Acts 23:15, which Greek verb means “to manifest, to show, to exhibit, to reveal, to make know; and in the passive, to appear.”  The second is the Greek verb “deloo” in Hebrews 9:8; Hebrews 12:27; 1 Peter 1:11, which Greek verb means “to declare, to make evident, to reveal.”)

3 hours ago, Paul said:

The title and Pastor Markle's discussion focuses greatly on the "verb" signified.  So I looked it up and the word "signified" is actually a noun, while the words "signify" and 'signifying' are verbs.  The definition of "signified" is "the meaning expressed by a sign rather than the physical form it is expressed in" (Collins dictionary).  As a noun the word "signified" combined with "it" (signified it) can describe a state or quality, that is the state of revelations being in signs or sketches rather than literal.  

A major problem with accepting that there is a mix is that people get to cherry pick which parts they consider literal and soon enough another revelation is born, a literal thousand years on earth after the resurrection is a long running beauty for example.  No Apostle mentioned this and it's nowhere else in the Bible, and Jesus refutes it in John 18:36 (also Romans 14:17 is worth looking up).

In the first place, the above posting is not accurate to my word study.  My word study did NOT focus primarily upon the English verb "signified."  Rather, my word study focused primarily upon the GREEK VERB "semaino," from which the English verb "signified" is translated in Revelation 1:1.  In the Greek, the word "semaino" is MOST DEFINITELY A VERB.

In the second place, the above posting is not even precisely accurate to the claims of Collin's dictionary.  While Collin's dictionary does indeed present the word "signified" itself as having a usage as a noun, Collin's dictionary also presents the following word forms for the VERB "to signify" -- "signifies, signifying, SIGNIFIED."  Thus even Collin's dictionary, which is the specific dictionary authority that is being used in the above posting, acknowledges that "SIGNIFIED" is a VERB form for the verb "to signify."  Now, since Collin's dictionary would thus be indicating that the word "signified" could either be grammatically used in a given sentence as a noun or as a verb, we must ask -- In which grammatical way is it being used in Revelation 1:1?  In answer I would contend that since the English word "signified" is translating the Greed VERB "semaino" in Revelation 1:1, we should recognize that the English word "signified" is also to be taken grammatically as a VERB.

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On 1/20/2016 at 2:36 PM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Revelations 1:1-2 states, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.”

Due to the use of the verb “signified” in Revelation 1:1, some indicate that the book of the Revelation is to be taken as a prophetic communication of symbolism, rather than literalism.  So then, is this a valid understanding and restriction due to the use of the verb “signified”?

The verb “signify” in Revelation 1:1 is translated from the Greek verb “semaino.” This Greek verb is also employed five other times throughout the New Testament, and every one of those times it is translated with some form of the English verb “signify.”  These five other times are as follows:

John 12:32-33 – “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.  This he said, signifying what death he should die.”

John 18:31-32 – “Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death: that the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.”

John 21:18-19 – “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.  This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God.  And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.”

Acts 11:28 – “And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.”

Acts 25:27 – “For it seemeth to me unreasonable to send a prisoner, and not withal to signify the crimes laid against him.”

Now, there is not a single one of these five other uses for the Greek verb “semaino,” as translated by some form of the English verb “signify,” wherein the verb means “a communication of information through symbolism.”  Rather, in every one of these five cases, the verb means “a communication of information through description.”  As such, although the communication that is indicated by this verb may, or may not include some symbolism within the communication, the meaning of the verb itself does not at all indicate a communication with a focus upon communicating through symbolism, but rather indicates a communication with a focus upon communication through description.  Even so, although the prophetic utterances of the book of the Revelation may indeed include some symbolisms, the use of this verb in Revelation 1:1 would move us to expect, not a prophetic utterance that is primarily symbolic language, but a prophetic utterance that is primarily literal description.

(Note: There are two other Greek verbs that are also translated with some form of the English verb “signify.”  The first is the Greek verb “emphanizo” in Acts 23:15, which Greek verb means “to manifest, to show, to exhibit, to reveal, to make know; and in the passive, to appear.”  The second is the Greek verb “deloo” in Hebrews 9:8; Hebrews 12:27; 1 Peter 1:11, which Greek verb means “to declare, to make evident, to reveal.”)

 

I think that many misunderstand the symbolic aspect of the revelation, as while it is true that parts of it are given in symbolic terms and visions, they all line up with OT prophecies, and they all pretty much refer to a real historical events or persons just being described in symbolic ways.

 

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