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The scripture in context is clear on this matter regardless of what fables the ancients may have tried to place upon the text: Angels fallen or otherwise are not "Sons of God":

Hebrews 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 they shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 and as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. 

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

The scripture in context is clear on this matter. I deal with this topic extensively here in this thread: http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23268-the-sons-of-god-are-not-the-angels/#comment-403605

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The most dangerous heresy is the promotion of false gospels. There was, is and will only ever be one means of salvation for all people and to teach otherwise is the greater heresy.

Grammatically false.  The phrase "and also" indicates something in addition to the previous statement, not an explanation for the previous statement.  Even more, the phrase "after t

All I'm going to say, at this point, is that the Word of God clearly defines what "sons of God" are; and they are not angels,

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Angels have a nature but Humans have seed this makes them a separate kind of being and incompatible with humans and not inheritors of son adoption nor do they have authority over the creation outside of God's will, these Brothers of Christ are the only ones which can be called God's Sons:

Hebrews 2:11-17 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,12 saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

1 Corinthians 15:38-41 but God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 

40 There arealso celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

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2 hours ago, Critical Mass said:

"AND ALSO AFTER THAT" i.e. there were giants in the earth after the flood too (which there were) as a result of the sons of God procreating with the daughters of men. I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp?

Again, the teaching that these "sons of God" were born again Christian is ridiculous. Or that only saved men married unsaved women and not the other way around.

Anything but believe the bible.

Compare scripture with scripture: Cain leaving the Lord and setting up his own kingdom and lineage away from the Lord in the land of Nod (Genesis 4:16-22) and the men that stayed with Adam and Seth called upon the Name of the Lord in another place (Genesis 4:26). Over time that Holy nation in Genesis 5 (of which Cain is excluded even though his descendants still existed) becoming corrupted in Genesis 6 and going to the daughters of the men and you get the almost exact same event as is described in Ezra 9-10. Only in Ezra they repented.

Ezra 9:1-4 Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites. 2 For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass. 3 And when I heard this thing, I rent my garment and my mantle, and plucked off the hair of my head and of my beard, and sat down astonied. 4 Then were assembled unto me every one that trembled at the words of the God of Israel, because of the transgression of those that had been carried away; and I sat astonied until the evening sacrifice.

13 And after all that is come upon us for our evil deeds, and for our great trespass, seeing that thou our God hast punished us less than our iniquities deserve, and hast given us such deliverance as this; 14 should we again break thy commandments, and join in affinity with the people of these abominations? wouldest not thou be angry with us till thou hadst consumed us, so that there should be no remnant nor escaping? 15 O Lord God of Israel, thou art righteous: for we remain yet escaped, as it is this day: behold, we are before thee in our trespasses: for we cannot stand before thee because of this.

Ezra 10:11-14 Now therefore make confession unto the Lord God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives. 12 Then all the congregation answered and said with a loud voice, As thou hast said, so must we do. 13 But the people are many, and it is a time of much rain, and we are not able to stand without, neither is this a work of one day or two: for we are many that have transgressed in this thing.

Ezra 10:44 All these had taken strange wives: and some of them had wives by whom they had children.

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8 hours ago, Critical Mass said:

"AND ALSO AFTER THAT" i.e. there were giants in the earth after the flood too (which there were) as a result of the sons of God procreating with the daughters of men. I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp?

Grammatically false.  The phrase "and also" indicates something in addition to the previous statement, not an explanation for the previous statement.  Even more, the phrase "after that" indicates that the reality of the second statement occurred after the reality of the first statement.  The word "that" is a demonstrative pronoun that grammatically points back to the reality of the first statement.  Therefore, the time sequence of the realities is as follows:

Occurred first -- The reality that "there were giants [Hebrew, "n'philiym"] in the earth in those days."
Occurred second ("also after that," after that of the first) -- The reality that "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men" procreated and thereby produced children who grew up to become "mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

The reason that it is "so hard to grasp" your position is not because we cannot understand your position, but is specifically because your position is contrary to the precise grammatical construction that God the Holy Spirit inspired for the verse.  Those of us who believe in a "jot and tittle" precision for Bible study will not be willing to reject the Holy Spirit inspired grammar of the verse in order to follow a human fabrication.
 

7 hours ago, beameup said:

Yea, it's pretty straight-forward.  Prior to Augustine, it was universally understood to be fallen angels bene Elohim (or called "Watchers" in the Book of Enoch). The reference in Genesis 6 is "the sons of God" cohabiting with "the daughters of Men" bath 'adam                                                                    [     angels could eat and drink in the O.T. and were the objects of sexual-desire by the Sodomites, which tells us that they could "materialize" on earth]

The older view, held nearly unanimously by ancient writers prior to Augustine of Hippo, is that the Benei Ha'Elohim (Sons of God) or The Watchers were fallen angels in extra-Biblical traditions. While there has always been a minority of churchmen who followed this view

The view posited by St. Augustine in the fourth century is that the Sons of God refers to the god-fearing line of Seth; and the daughters of men refers to the daughters of the unbelieving line of Cain.  http://creationwiki.org/Bene_Elohim

1.  I really do not care what human did or did not propagate a particular doctrinal position.  I care only what the Holy Spirit inspired grammar and context reveals.  For if the Holy Spirit inspired grammar and context reveals a particular position, then GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT taught that position FIRST; and I am more than happy to follow HIS lead.

2.  So then, now instead of following Augustine of Hippo (whose doctrinal position on many things I would certainly reject), we are to follow the writers of "extra-Biblical tradition" instead.  Is this not simply an exchange of one human authority for another.  I am not interested in human authority for my doctrine.  Rather, I am interested in Holy Spirit authority for my doctrine.

(Note: It is interesting to me that Brother "Beameup" begins by stating that it is "pretty straight-forward;" but then instead of handling the actual grammatical structure of that which God the Holy Spirit inspired, he ran off to the "extra-Biblical traditions," such as "the Book of Enoch.")

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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6 hours ago, John Young said:

Angels have a nature but Humans have seed this makes them a separate kind of being and incompatible with humans and not inheritors of son adoption nor do they have authority over the creation outside of God's will, these Brothers of Christ are the only ones which can be called God's Sons:

Hebrews 2:11-17 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,12 saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Brother Young,

Not at all seeking to be in conflict with your above presentation (although at the present I do hold that the "sons of God" references in Job refer to the angelic beings, which might be in conflict with your presentation from Hebrews 1:1-14).  However, I present this posting in order ask a side (but related) question concerning your presentation from Hebrews 2:11-17, as follows:

Do you then believe that Biblical regeneration occurred for believers in the time of the Old Testament, for how else do sinful humans by nature become the "sons of God"?

(Note: This question is asked for information because I do not actually know your position concerning Biblical regeneration for Old Testament believers.  On the other hand, this question might also be posed to any who do actually deny regeneration for Old Testament believers, but who believe that "the sons of God" in Genesis 6:1-4 are human believers.)

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On 2/6/2016 at 6:36 AM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Do you then believe that Biblical regeneration occurred for believers in the time of the Old Testament, for how else do sinful humans by nature become the "sons of God"?

Yes I believe salvation is obtained the same way in every age. By Faith in Christ, the Son of God. Jesus expected as much from Nicodemus in John 3 when He said to him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

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5 minutes ago, John Young said:

Yes I believe salvation is obtained the same way in every age. By Faith in Christ, the Son of God. Jesus expected as much from Nicodemus in John 3 when He said to him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

Brother Young,

I thank you for your answer; however, I am still a "little" uncertain of your position.  I know that this may appear to be a repetition of the question that you just answered.  Yet I would ask specifically concerning regeneration for Old Testament believers -- Do you believe, specifically, that Biblical regeneration occurred for Old Testament believers?  Some believe that eternal justification and eternal salvation occurred for Old Testament believers, but that Biblical regeneration itself did not.  Since your answer specified that "salvation is obtained the same way in every age," that is -- "by faith in Christ, the Son of God," I am still a little uncertain of your position specifically concerning regeneration for Old Testament believers.

I pray that you will not view me as an annoyance for repeating my question.  I pray that you may understand the reason for my repetition.

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Isaiah 61:4-7
And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
Isaiah 60, 61, 62 concern the Kingdom of God on the earth, located in Israel
 
Isaiah 61:1-2a
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD -- Jesus announcing that the Kingdom of God was "at hand". Luke 4:18-19
 
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5 hours ago, beameup said:
 
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD -- Jesus announcing that the Kingdom of God was "at hand". Luke 4:18-19

Where in that part does it mention the Kingdom of God?  Jesus proclaimed the acceptable year of the Lord. That year is still open to us and to you if you repent hand have faith in Him.  

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4 hours ago, Invicta said:

Where in that part does it mention the Kingdom of God?  Jesus proclaimed the acceptable year of the Lord. That year is still open to us and to you if you repent hand have faith in Him.  

Please read chapters 60-61-62 of Isaiah to get the "big picture".

The ENTIRE Nation of Israel will be "Priests of the LORD"  - Isaiah 61:6

But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

 

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57 minutes ago, beameup said:

Please read chapters 60-61-62 of Isaiah to get the "big picture".

The ENTIRE Nation of Israel will be "Priests of the LORD"  - Isaiah 61:6

But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

 

ezekielland_mil.gif

You have put that on there several times already, as someone said, Repeating things over again does not make them true.  Part of that, Jesus said was fulfilled in Luke four in "This Day"  The days of vengeance too place in the Roman war 1 AD 66-70. (Luke 21:22)  And as someone who teaches that all of Jesus' ministry was under the law, I cannot take anything you say as true.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Invicta said:

You have put that on there several times already, as someone said, Repeating things over again does not make them true.  Part of that, Jesus said was fulfilled in Luke four in "This Day"  The days of vengeance too place in the Roman war 1 AD 66-70. (Luke 21:22)  And as someone who teaches that all of Jesus' ministry was under the law, I cannot take anything you say as true.

 

 

I do understand that "Reformed" - "Covenant" Theology does lead one to believe that the "Church" has "replaced" Israel, and hence, that all of Israel's promises now belong to the "Church".  I really do understand your position.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Romans 10:4-5
 
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise - [Romans 10:6a]  But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - [Romans 10:8-9] 
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19 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Do you believe, specifically, that Biblical regeneration occurred for Old Testament believers?  Some believe that eternal justification and eternal salvation occurred for Old Testament believers, but that Biblical regeneration itself did not.  Since your answer specified that "salvation is obtained the same way in every age," that is -- "by faith in Christ, the Son of God," I am still a little uncertain of your position specifically concerning regeneration for Old Testament believers.

In my mind Regeneration and Born Again which Christ spoke of are the same thing. So when one is generated from another that means they were born and when one is "born again" spiritually their spirit is made alive by God. Christ stated with out being Born Again [regenerated] a man cannot see the kingdom of God. The salvation part is the same for every believer but until Christ actually redeemed them on the cross they had to wait for some of the eternal spiritual aspects. Just as today we wait for aspects in regard to the bodily regeneration. The OT regenerated waited in hope for the spiritual redemption which occurred at the cross and the NT regenerated are waiting in hope for the redemption of our body which will occur at the return of Christ. (Romans 8:18-25,1 Corinthians 15:50-53,1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

Additionally, Jesus was not, as our human mediator, advocate, sacrifice, priest, etc., before God until after the resurrection so the dynamic between regenerate/righteous/just men and God was different in regard to approaching Him. Also the role of the Holy Spirit changed a bit as well. Rather then things being meditated by angels between God and man (Galatians 3:19) the Holy Spirit, took residence and became the Holy Ghost comforter, working in the name of Christ, in all believers to give all direct access to God (John 14:26).

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9 hours ago, beameup said:

I do understand that "Reformed" - "Covenant" Theology does lead one to believe that the "Church" has "replaced" Israel, and hence, that all of Israel's promises now belong to the "Church".  I really do understand your position.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Romans 10:4-5
 
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise - [Romans 10:6a]  But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - [Romans 10:8-9

Actually you do not understand my position at all.  I do not believe that the church has replaced Israel.  I know some who do believe that, even in my own family. They do not believe that Israel is still a chosen people, I do.  They believe that "All Israel will be saved" refers to the 'Elect' i.e. the Church,  I do not believe that.

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48 minutes ago, Invicta said:

Actually you do not understand my position at all.  I do not believe that the church has replaced Israel.  I know some who do believe that, even in my own family. They do not believe that Israel is still a chosen people, I do.  They believe that "All Israel will be saved" refers to the 'Elect' i.e. the Church,  I do not believe that.

And as someone who teaches that all of Jesus' ministry was under the law, I cannot take anything you say as true.

But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.  Galatians 4:4-5  Jesus' ministry was "under the Law".
 
Some have forgotten that Jesus (much) later appeared to Paul and gave him the revelation of the mystery, a mystery that until that time was unknown and not revealed in the O.T.
How that by revelation he [Jesus] made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Eph 3:3-6
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:  Col 1:26-27
 
Now, during the Kingdom (Millennial Reign of Messiah) - during the next "dispensation" - the Gentiles on the Earth will come to Israel to worship the King.  Israel will then be "a light unto the Gentiles".
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isa 49:6
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7 hours ago, beameup said:
But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.  Galatians 4:4-5  Jesus' ministry was "under the Law".
 
Some have forgotten that Jesus (much) later appeared to Paul and gave him the revelation of the mystery, a mystery that until that time was unknown and not revealed in the O.T.
How that by revelation he [Jesus] made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Eph 3:3-6
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:  Col 1:26-27
 
Now, during the Kingdom (Millennial Reign of Messiah) - during the next "dispensation" - the Gentiles on the Earth will come to Israel to worship the King.  Israel will then be "a light unto the Gentiles".

Jesus was born under the law. But the law expired with John.   Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.  Jesus came to fulfil the law.Matt 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.  
 Since the time of John, the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. They could not press into it if it was was more than 2000 years in advance of that time.  Jesus said Mark 9:1  And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.   And unless you are one of those strange people who believe that .the Apostle John is still alive, and there are such, I have met them on other sites, (Jn 21:20-23)  I don't usually make assumptions about people but in this case I am making and assumption that you are not one of those people, I don't see how you can say that the kingdom is way in the future.

I am not very good at putting things into words, so I prefer to post just scriptures.  Last time I posted two scriptures which I hoped you would link but obviously you didn't as you took one out of the context I was trying to establish. So let us try again:

Romans 15:8  Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: In discussions on Daniel I said I believed that these promises that Christ confirmed were indeed the covenant Christ confirmed in Daniel 9:27.  But in my previous post I was connecting it to Pentecost.   Acts 1:4.  And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. What I am saying is that the promise of the father, the giving of the Holy Spirit was the same promises that Christ ministered to the fathers. , and His Kingdom was manifested then.  If you say that what Peter said only applied to the Jews, I disagree, because he said   21:  And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be savedThat was part of Joel's prophecy which fully applied to those days, and ours too,  for that matter.
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On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 2:06 AM, beameup said:

The word used there is Ekklesia, which simply means "assembly".  Israel in the wilderness was an "assembly" [Acts 7:38].  Synagogues are called an "assembly".  You are using the rules of "Replacement Theology" and assuming that all scriptures refer only to "the church" (Body of Christ), and that God has only one group of "elect".  You are "assuming" that Revelation was written to and for "the church" (Body of Christ).

Was John a "Hebrew"?  Was John part of "Israel"? Do the promises of Exodus 19:5-6 apply to Israel, or has the church "replaced" Israel?

 

Was Paul's father a displaced Jew in Greece? Was Paul a Jew? Was Paul a Pharisee? Was Paul part of Israel? Do any of these verses refer to the "Body of Christ"? Was Paul teaching replacement theology?

Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church Ekklesia which is at Cenchrea:

Rom 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches Ekklesia of the Gentiles.

Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church Ekklesia that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

Rom 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches Ekklesia of Christ salute you.

Rom 16:23 Gaius mine host, and of the whole church, Ekklesia saluteth you. Erastus the chamberlain of the city saluteth you, and Quartus a brother.

1Co 1:2 Unto the church Ekklesia of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Co 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church. Ekklesia

1Co 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. Ekklesia

1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. Ekklesia

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church Ekklesia of God:

1Co 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches Ekklesia of God.

1Co 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, Ekklesia I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

1Co 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church Ekklesia of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, Ekklesia first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. Ekklesia

1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church Ekklesia may receive edifying.

1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Ekklesia

1Co 14:19 Yet in the church Ekklesia I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church Ekklesia be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; Ekklesia and let him speak to himself, and to God.

1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches Ekklesia of the saints.

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: Ekklesia for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. Ekklesia

1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church Ekklesia of God.

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches Ekklesia of Galatia, even so do ye.

1Co 16:19 The churches G1577 of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church Ekklesia that is in their house.

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church Ekklesia of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

2Co 8:1 Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches Ekklesia of Macedonia;

2Co 8:18 And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise is in the gospel throughout all the churches; Ekklesia

2Co 8:19 And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches Ekklesia to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

2Co 8:23 Whether any do enquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be enquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, Ekklesia and the glory of Christ.

2Co 8:24 Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, Ekklesia the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.

2Co 11:8 I robbed other churches, Ekklesia taking wages of them, to do you service.

2Co 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. Ekklesia

2Co 12:13 For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, Ekklesia except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong.

Gal 1:2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches Ekklesia of Galatia:

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church Ekklesia of God, and wasted it:

Gal 1:22 And was unknown by face unto the churches Ekklesia of Judaea which were in Christ:

Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Ekklesia

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church Ekklesia the manifold wisdom of God,

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church Ekklesia by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: Ekklesia and he is the saviour of the body.

Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church Ekklesia is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, Ekklesia and gave himself for it;

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, Ekklesia not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: Ekklesia

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ekklesia

Phl 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; Ekklesia touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Phl 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church Ekklesia communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: Ekklesia who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Ekklesia

Col 4:15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church Ekklesia which is in his house.

Col 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church Ekklesia of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church Ekklesia of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches Ekklesia of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

2Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church Ekklesia of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches Ekklesia of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church Ekklesia of God?)

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church Ekklesia of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

1Ti 5:16 If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church Ekklesia be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.

Phm 1:2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church Ekklesia in thy house:

 

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Acts 28:30 ¶  And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31  Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
 

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On Friday, February 05, 2016 at 11:34 PM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

No sir, I am NOT saying this at all.  Indeed, I have no need whatsoever at all to be saying this; for Genesis 6:4 does NOT indicate that the "giants" (Hebrew, "n'philiym") were the offspring of "the sons of God" with "the daughters of men."  So then, let us consider what Genesis 6:4 actually DOES indicate.

Concerning Genesis 6:4

“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”

Grammatically, this verse presents a compound sentence, containing two independent clauses that are joined with the conjunction “and.”  The first of these independent clauses is the statement, “There were giants in the earth in those days.”  This statement simply reveals the existence of “giants” (Hebrew, “n’philiym”) “in the earth” at the time of “those days.”  It does not reveal anything more about those “giants.”  It does not reveal anything about their character or their conduct.  It does not reveal anything about their origins or their parentage.  It does not reveal anything about their size or their stature.

Then the second of the independent clause in Genesis 6:4 encompasses the remainder of the verse, “And also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”  This statement begins with a phrase of addition and of time – “also after that.”  Herein the adverb “also” indicates that the reality of this independent clause is something that is in addition to the reality of the previous independent clause to which it is attached.  Furthermore, the prepositional phrase, “after that,” indicates that the reality of this independent clause is something that occurred in time after the reality of the previous independent clause to which it is attached. 

Now, this is significant for a correct understanding of this verse, because of the principle that cause does not follow after effect, but that effect follows after cause.  Since this second independent clause speaks concerning the reproduction of “the sons of God” with “the daughters of men,” and since it speaks of this reproduction as occurring in time AFTER the existence of the “giants” (“n’philiym”) “in the earth,” it is NOT possible for this reproduction of “the sons of God” with “the daughters of men” to be the cause for that existence of the “giants in the earth.”  The cause for the existence of these “giants” CANNOT come AFTER the effect.

However, the information of this second independent clause in Genesis 6:4 DOES reveal who actually WERE the offspring of “the sons of God” with “the daughters of men.”  After the opening phrase of addition and time, this clause presents a “when-then” statement.  First, the “when” side of the statement is grammatically presented as a compound protasis of two parts, as follows: (1) “when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men” and (2) when “they [the daughters of men] bare children to them [the sons of God].”  This “when” side of the statement reveals the cause for the “then” side of the statement.  This cause is that “the sons of God” engaged in sexual relations with “the daughters of men” (which, according to Genesis 6:1-2, “the sons of God” had taken as their wives) and that “the daughters of men” in turn became pregnant and bear children unto “the sons of God,” their husbands.

Second, the “then” side of the statement (the apodosis) reveals the effect (or, result) of this procreation between “the sons of God” and “the daughters of men.”  Indeed, this effect (or, result) is that “the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”  Herein the subject of this effect (or, result) statement is “the same,” and it indicates that this statement is about the very “same” children that “the daughters of men” bare unto “the sons of God.”  These very “same” children grew up to become, NOT the “giants” (“n’philiym”), BUT “mighty men,” who were “men of renown.”  As such, it is grammatically invalid to claim from Genesis 6:4 that the “giants” (“n’philiym”) were the offspring of “the sons of God” and “the daughters of men.”

Genesis 6:4  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Surely this could just as easily mean that 'their were giants in those days, and afterward', I.E. after the flood. And then the question would arise where did they come from? did they survive the flood? So Scripture explains where they came from.

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5 hours ago, Invicta said:

Jesus was born under the law. But the law expired with John.   Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.  Jesus came to fulfil the law.Matt 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.  
 Since the time of John, the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. They could not press into it if it was was more than 2000 years in advance of that time.  Jesus said Mark 9:1  And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.   And unless you are one of those strange people who believe that .the Apostle John is still alive, and there are such, I have met them on other sites, (Jn 21:20-23)  I don't usually make assumptions about people but in this case I am making and assumption that you are not one of those people, I don't see how you can say that the kingdom is way in the future.

I am not very good at putting things into words, so I prefer to post just scriptures.  Last time I posted two scriptures which I hoped you would link but obviously you didn't as you took one out of the context I was trying to establish. So let us try again:

Romans 15:8  Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: In discussions on Daniel I said I believed that these promises that Christ confirmed were indeed the covenant Christ confirmed in Daniel 9:27.  But in my previous post I was connecting it to Pentecost.   Acts 1:4.  And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. What I am saying is that the promise of the father, the giving of the Holy Spirit was the same promises that Christ ministered to the fathers. , and His Kingdom was manifested then.  If you say that what Peter said only applied to the Jews, I disagree, because he said   21:  And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be savedThat was part of Joel's prophecy which fully applied to those days, and ours too,  for that matter.
.


 

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.  Matthew 5:17
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4 hours ago, Invicta said:

Scripture doesn't give any more information, but I should think so.

Agreed. Interesting.

Word Origin and History for hire

v.

Old English hyrian "pay for service, employ for wages, engage," from Proto-Germanic *hurjan (cf. Danish hyre, Old Frisian hera, Dutch huren, German heuern "to hire, rent"). Reflexively, "to agree to work for wages" from mid-13c. Related: Hired ; hiring.

Edited by heartstrings
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4 hours ago, beameup said:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.  Matthew 5:17

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Is this only for Jews? Is it replacement theology? Was it said to Jews by a Jew? Is the Father's house in Heaven? Where will you (a gentile) go when you die? If you hope to go to the Father's house is that catholic replacement theology?

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4 hours ago, heartstrings said:

 

 

Agreed. Interesting.

Word Origin and History for hire

v.

Old English hyrian "pay for service, employ for wages, engage," from Proto-Germanic *hurjan (cf. Danish hyre, Old Frisian hera, Dutch huren, German heuern "to hire, rent"). Reflexively, "to agree to work for wages" from mid-13c. Related: Hired ; hiring.

When I emphasised that, I was not trying to bring to notice Paul living in his own hired house, but Paul himself.  I should perhaps only have emphasised Paul.  

I suppose that Luke was bringing to our attention the fact that Paul was not in prison a that point.

7 hours ago, beameup said:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.  Matthew 5:17

Of course.  The Law and prophets were till John then Christ came and the law was fulfilled,  

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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

When I emphasised that, I was not trying to bring to notice Paul living in his own hired house, but Paul himself.  I should perhaps only have emphasised Paul.  

I suppose that Luke was bringing to our attention the fact that Paul was not in prison a that point.

Of course.  The Law and prophets were till John then Christ came and the law was fulfilled,  

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James 2:10
Christ lived and died "under the law".  John the Baptist was beheaded long before the crucifixion.  Jesus never "broke the Law" (of Moses).

δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω

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On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 9:19 AM, beameup said:
Isaiah 61:4-7
And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
Isaiah 60, 61, 62 concern the Kingdom of God on the earth, located in Israel
 
Isaiah 61:1-2a
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD -- Jesus announcing that the Kingdom of God was "at hand". Luke 4:18-19
 

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Was Paul teaching catholic replacement theology, by telling these Gentiles they could inherit the kingdom of God?

 

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15 hours ago, Old-Pilgrim said:

Genesis 6:4  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Surely this could just as easily mean that 'their were giants in those days, and afterward', I.E. after the flood. And then the question would arise where did they come from? did they survive the flood? So Scripture explains where they came from.

Brother "Old-Pilgrim," (If you were to provide your given name, I would use it out of respect for you.)

Actually, your position is NOT a valid possibility because the Hebrew grammar will NOT allow for it.  In the Hebrew the adverb that is translated "after that" is DIRECTLY connected to the which FOLLOWS, not to that which precedes.  The King James translators understood this; therefore, they included the semicolon between the word "days" and the word "and" in order to signal this unto the English reader, thereby revealing the end of the first independent clause and the beginning of the second independent clause.  As such, the phrase "after that" is not a modifier that is connected to the first independent clause, but is certainly a modifier that is connected to the second independent clause -- "And also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." 

Furthermore, the conclusion of the second independent clause actually DOES reveal the nature of the offspring for "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men."  Indeed, it reveals that their offspring were MEN, indicating that their children "became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."  Yes, they became "mighty men," "men of renown;" yet they were still MEN, not some angel-man hybrid.

Even so, as I said before, so say I now again -- It is grammatically invalid to claim from Genesis 6:4 that the “giants” (“n’philiym”) were the offspring of “the sons of God” and “the daughters of men.”

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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7 hours ago, Invicta said:

When I emphasised that, I was not trying to bring to notice Paul living in his own hired house, but Paul himself.  I should perhaps only have emphasised Paul.  

I suppose that Luke was bringing to our attention the fact that Paul was not in prison a that point.

Of course.  The Law and prophets were till John then Christ came and the law was fulfilled,  

No problem. It was just interesting: I had never noticed the mention of "renting" in the Bible before. I'm sure it was mentioned for some good reason though.

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5 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother "Old-Pilgrim," (If you were to provide your given name, I would use it out of respect for you.)

Actually, your position is NOT a valid possibility because the Hebrew grammar will NOT allow for it.  In the Hebrew the adverb that is translated "after that" is DIRECTLY connected to the which FOLLOWS, not to that which precedes.  The King James translators understood this; therefore, they included the semicolon between the word "days" and the word "and" in order to signal this unto the English reader, thereby revealing the end of the first independent clause and the beginning of the second independent clause.  As such, the phrase "after that" is not a modifier that is connected to the first independent clause, but is certainly a modifier that is connected to the second independent clause -- "And also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." 

Furthermore, the conclusion of the second independent clause actually DOES reveal the nature of the offspring for "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men."  Indeed, it reveals that their offspring were MEN, indicating that their children "became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."  Yes, they became "mighty men," "men of renown;" yet they were still MEN, not some angel-man hybrid.

Even so, as I said before, so say I now again -- It is grammatically invalid to claim from Genesis 6:4 that the “giants” (“n’philiym”) were the offspring of “the sons of God” and “the daughters of men.”

Brother Scott,

I agree with you that the giants were not the offspring of the sons of God and that there were no angel/human hybrids. But I would point out that a semicolon, between the two independent clauses does relate the second to the first; likewise, so does the conjunction "and". If it were not related, there would be a period instead of the semicolon. But if there were a period, then the first sentence would be out of place. The phrase "after that" cannot mean "at a later time" because the whole story takes place "in those days" and "those days" are "when men began to multiply.....", namely the whole of Genesis chapters 4. 5 and 6 until verse 7.

Scroll down to the second synonym in the left hand column and click on it.  http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/after+that . The phrase "after that" contains a preposition and a pronoun: the preposition "after" also can mean "because of" , "according to", "consequent to", "subsequent to", "in imitation of"http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/after .  The pronoun "that" refers directly to the sentence "there were giants in the earth in those days".

“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also (according to that) or ((in imitation of that) or (subsequent to that), when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”       

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5 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother "Old-Pilgrim," (If you were to provide your given name, I would use it out of respect for you.)

Actually, your position is NOT a valid possibility because the Hebrew grammar will NOT allow for it.  In the Hebrew the adverb that is translated "after that" is DIRECTLY connected to the which FOLLOWS, not to that which precedes.  The King James translators understood this; therefore, they included the semicolon between the word "days" and the word "and" in order to signal this unto the English reader, thereby revealing the end of the first independent clause and the beginning of the second independent clause.  As such, the phrase "after that" is not a modifier that is connected to the first independent clause, but is certainly a modifier that is connected to the second independent clause -- "And also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." 

Furthermore, the conclusion of the second independent clause actually DOES reveal the nature of the offspring for "the sons of God" and "the daughters of men."  Indeed, it reveals that their offspring were MEN, indicating that their children "became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."  Yes, they became "mighty men," "men of renown;" yet they were still MEN, not some angel-man hybrid.

Even so, as I said before, so say I now again -- It is grammatically invalid to claim from Genesis 6:4 that the “giants” (“n’philiym”) were the offspring of “the sons of God” and “the daughters of men.”

Hello Brother Scott, thanks for your time, you seem to be sincere in your view of this scripture, I don't do Hebrew or Greek or English for that matter, but I have noticed that sometimes different translations are different because people can't quite agree on what the original word means or what the sense of the word should be, I know that in English often in a word or in a phrase there can be different meanings, And I have noticed that some of the reformation translations have commas rather than semi colons and comas, I have also heard that the Church before the time of Constantine all believed that the Nephalim (fallen) were an unlawful union between angels and humans, And there are other Scriptures to support this view, they could all be explained away, one by one, or they could be taken and built into conclusion.There was the Giant who had 24 digits, six toes and six fingers, times two 24 in all.Numbers 13:33  And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. The idea of a pure human race isn't that scriptural, Cain was of the 'evil one', the 'seed of the serpent', Judas was a devil, Satan entered into him, humans have to be separated sheep from goats.Jesus said to the pharisees 'ye are of your father the devil', Adam was a spiritual being who had a flesh body, the devil was a spiritual being who never had a flesh body.

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51 minutes ago, Old-Pilgrim said:

I have also heard that the Church before the time of Constantine all believed that the Nephalim (fallen) were an unlawful union between angels and humans,

Hearsay.

52 minutes ago, Old-Pilgrim said:

nd there are other Scriptures to support this view,

Which scriptures?

 

53 minutes ago, Old-Pilgrim said:

There was the Giant who had 24 digits, six toes and six fingers, times two 24 in all.Numbers 13:33 

People sometimes are born with extra digits today.  There are also reports of them in history.  Josephus mentions in one place seeing a giant skeleton with extra digits.  I once read that one of the Pharaohs was a giant with extra digits.and that his name in Greek meant just that, but no I cannot remember which one.

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19 hours ago, Invicta said:

Hearsay.

Which scriptures?

 

People sometimes are born with extra digits today.  There are also reports of them in history.  Josephus mentions in one place seeing a giant skeleton with extra digits.  I once read that one of the Pharaohs was a giant with extra digits.and that his name in Greek meant just that, but no I cannot remember which one.

Well, it isn't my specialist topic, but;

Jude 1:7  Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

As often it all depends how you divide the word as to what it says.(or how you see it)

Scripture mention’s the six fingers and toes, for a reason, perhaps to leave a clue for the non-fearful, to break it to us gently, . I suppose like a parent who is trying to tell a child some awful truth, such as ‘you will never walk’, or  ‘you have cancer’,  IE ‘the world is not always nice, neither are people, to their core’ Perhaps God doesn’t want to traumatize us by being too graphic. The Idea that Humans might not be fully Of Adam, but a mixture of Adam and the seed of the serpent could also be indicated from scripture, this would make the idea of the fallen ones mixing with humans less weird.

Edited by Old-Pilgrim
clarification
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19 hours ago, heartstrings said:

well they call demon possession MPD or split personality don't they. That (extra fingers) is due to DNA mess up a sign that something is not right. I think it is mildly interesting that we got our 12 hour day from the Babylonians, makes me think perhaps their was more than one of them who had twelve digits.

 

 

Edited by Old-Pilgrim
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