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2 hours ago, MountainChristian said:

How many generations was alive with Noah?

Quite a few. Quite a few before the flood and quite a few after.

I once did a chart from Adam to Abraham and there were some interesting facts. I found that Shem outlived Abraham. The chart has been lost but I noticed more recently that someone at church has done a similar one.  I just did a quick bit of mental arithmetic and it seems Abraham was born about 310 years after the flood.  After the flood Shem lived 502 years.

Provisos

Gen 5:32  And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth. But although mentioned last, Japheth was the eldest.Gen 10:21
Likewise 11:26  And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran. After Terah was 70 years he had three sons but we are not told who was the eldest here.  I had an Idea Abraham was the youngest but I don't know why.

Noah also lived for 350 years after the flood.  

 

Edited by Invicta
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6 hours ago, Ronda said:

Noah was not contaminated:

 

Amen!  Satan's attempt to destroy (contaminate) the human DNA by cross-breeding his fallen angels with mankind almost succeeded, and by doing so would have made it impossible for God to provide a (pure) human Savior for mankind. Christ died for mankind, not the angels or their offspring the Nephilim (which were all destroyed in the Flood).  Of course, this is another "forgotten truth" which was suppressed by the founders of the Catholic Church in the 4th Century, as it didn't "fit" into their "theology".

Edited by beameup
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The devil has always attempted to thwart God's plans... and that nasty devil gets "shot down" every time! God is all powerful, and the devil is an IDIOT for ever thinking he could derail God's perfect plans.. yet the stupid thing keeps trying. I understand that the "Jewish people" didn't actually exist until God chose Abraham, and his seed Isaac, and further down the lineage to Jacob (being renamed Israel). But since that time, the devil has tried repeatedly to kill off the Jews.  The devil put it in Herod's heart to attempt to kill all the Jewish male infants of 2 years and younger in an attempt to derail Christ (he'd already tried this during Moses' time and wasn't successful in killing off Moses, yet he thought he could use the same tactics and kill Jesus? How incredibly and arrogantly stupid) . The devil tried to tempt Jesus when Jesus was here on earth. How stupid is that? That devil never wins. God is ALWAYS victorious! The devil does do some damage... look at the holocaust, and even the antisemitism of today. It's horrible what the devil does... but he is never successful in wiping out the Jews, no matter how hard he tries and how much human hatred he uses for his advantage (even today antisemitism is happening AND in many churches no less!!!). The devil has even blinded many into claiming Israel's blessings for themselves (funny, those types always claim the blessings and future promises of Israel for themselves, but none of the curses... now that is some hypocrisy!) So the devil can twist human hearts bent on hatred, and he can slaughter many Jews (and Christians for that matter) But God always brings a remnant of Jewish people through!!! And one day the Jews WILL have their physical land restored to the full... the kingdom will last a thousand years, and God will fulfill His promises to them. God keeps His promises!!! The devil is so jealous of Israel. He got booted out of heaven and thrown to the earth. He might have some power over the world right now, but Jesus is going to come at the end of the tribulation, and claim His rightful place as King of kings and Lord of lords!!! That nasty devil will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years! The devil KNOWS THIS... yet he still has the utter audacity and arrogance to keep trying. It's amazing that even at the end of the thousand years the devil will again be let loose for a short season, he will again deceive the nations, but this time he will be done FOR GOOD!!! When he gets thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity, sin will finally be done for ever and ever. That is a glorious and wonderful thought!!! No more sin EVER!

God is so wonderful to even let us in on knowing about His future plans. We have so many wonderful things to look forward to when we receive glorified bodies. I look forward to that with great eagerness. Not just the fact that those glorified bodies will never mourn, never be sad, never cry, never feel pain, and never again die!!! That's wonderful all in itself. But to think upon what it will be like to see Jesus as He is!!! To have a glorified body as His! Just to be in His presence... the One who NEVER sinned, the One who is perfect, righteous, just, and so much more! To feel the love He has for us... He gave his life for us to atone for our sins. That is REAL love... love beyond comprehension, while we were yet sinners Christ died for us!!! I don't have any idea how our "senses" will work in glorified bodies, we know that it has never entered into the heart of man, so we can't fully understand or comprehend how wonderful it will be, but I do imagine (and this is speculative imagination) that our glorified bodies will have senses so profound, and not limited to the 5 senses we have in human (corruptible bodies) such as taste, touch, hearing, sight, and taste... I wonder (speculate)will the senses be so much more and so much better in glorified bodies?... we may even have more senses than those? (but I don't know that for a fact since it's not in scripture). But Jesus, in His resurrected body did enter into where the disciples were and the door was shut, yet He appeared in the midst of them. Does that mean he could materialize or pass through walls/doors? And does that mean we will also be able to move about like that? I don't know... but it's another wonderful thing to think about. One thing I do know for certain (because it IS in the Bible clearly) is this... it will ALL be worth it! Romans 8:18 "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."  And I agree with this also in Romans 8:23 ".....even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.".  I am sorry I went on and wrote another long post, but it couldn't be helped... I so look forward to the promises of receiving an uncorruptible body, and of being in the presence of Jesus! I know we've got work to do while we are still here, and so that we do to the glory of God. But when my day comes (whether by rapture or if the Lord tarries, by physical death) I am ready and more than glad to go!!!

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Brother John, I have already attempted to show you in Genesis 6 what happened and how "giants" came to be. Verses 1- 9, and specifically verse 4 tells what happened. 

Regardless, it does not matter now, because the "giants", the "men of renown"  (whatever you want to call them) were killed off during the flood. And the angels who fell with the devil are also irrelevant because they are now in everlasting chains awaiting judgment. 

2 Peter 2:4 "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment"

Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day"

So all those people who attempt to sell books/videos, claiming nonsense about the "nephilim" (or whatever they want to call them) still existing is utter nonsense!  Whether or not you believe what happened in Genesis 6:1-9 is or isn't "giants", "men of renown" or as some people call them "nephilim", isn't an issue... what is the issue is that they no longer EXIST because they were all killed off during the flood. AND the "fallen angels" which went with the devil, are also no longer an issue because right now they are in chains in hell awaiting judgment. SO either way, there are neither types of beings on the earth. If you have further questions, maybe brother Alan or Pastor Markle could do a better job explaining it than I can?  I don't really want to argue the point because they no longer exist on earth, and the fallen angels are also in chains in hell right now, so it makes no difference what you OR I believe the "giants" and "men of renown" were since none of them exist on the earth any more.

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2 hours ago, Invicta said:

Quite a few. Quite a few before the flood and quite a few after.

I once did a chart from Adam to Abraham and there were some interesting facts. I found that Shem outlived Abraham. The chart has been lost but I noticed more recently that someone at church has done a similar one.  I just did a quick bit of mental arithmetic and it seems Abraham was born about 310 years after the flood.  After the flood Shem lived 502 years.

 

There is a belief among some Bible scholars that it was in fact Shem that was Melchizedek "King of Salem".  Genesis 14:18, Hebrews 7:1-2

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5 minutes ago, Ronda said:

Brother John, I have already attempted to show you in Genesis 6 what happened and how "giants" came to be. Verses 1- 9, and specifically verse 4 tells what happened. 

Regardless, it does not matter now, because the "giants", the "men of renown"  (whatever you want to call them) were killed off during the flood. And the angels who fell with the devil are also irrelevant because they are now in everlasting chains awaiting judgment. 

2 Peter 2:4 "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment"

Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day"

So all those people who attempt to sell books/videos, claiming nonsense about the "nephilim" (or whatever they want to call them) still existing is utter nonsense!  Whether or not you believe what happened in Genesis 6:1-9 is or isn't "giants", "men of renown" or as some people call them "nephilim", isn't an issue... what is the issue is that they no longer EXIST because they were all killed off during the flood. AND the "fallen angels" which went with the devil, are also no longer an issue because right now they are in chains in hell awaiting judgment. SO either way, there are neither types of beings on the earth. If you have further questions, maybe brother Alan or Pastor Markle could do a better job explaining it than I can?  I don't really want to argue the point because they no longer exist on earth, and the fallen angels are also in chains in hell right now, so it makes no difference what you OR I believe the "giants" and "men of renown" were since none of them exist on the earth any more.

Where do these verses say anything about angels cross-breeding with humans?

There were giants after the flood too.

2 minutes ago, beameup said:

There is a belief among some Bible scholars that it was in fact Shem that was Melchizedek "King of Salem".  Genesis 14:18, Hebrews 7:1-2

Couldn't be since Shem's parents are known and Scripture says Melchizedek was without father, without mother, etc. (Hebrews 7)

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On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 7:41 AM, beameup said:

Same-same: "Jew", "Hebrew", "children of Israel", "Jacob", etc. etc. etc.  If you are not genetically pure, you cannot be 100% Hebrew.Friend, Even Jesus was not a "genetically pure" Jew. If you look at his geneology in Matthew 1 verse 5 you will find that Jesus was descended from a Canaanite (Rahab the harlot) and a Moabite(Ruth). "These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, Noah's "generations" were "Shem, Ham, and Japheth". Noah was the husband of one wife, he had no concubines, no mistresses, no illicit affairs and he "generated" all his offspring with his one wife. See Genesis 5 where it says "these are the generations" of Adam. It means "this is what Adam gendered":
 
[Noah was not a hybrid nephalim] and Noah walked with God." Gen 6:9 That would be true because there were no hybrids.

Perhaps you overlooked the description given in Revelation 7, where 12 "tribes" are listed (composed of 12,000 from each tribe) as the defining term/terms.

BTW, it is the Bible uses the term "remnant" being saved. Isa 10:21, Rom 9:27

Perhaps the reference to where it states that "one-third of Jews" will be saved in the Tribulation??

 

Edited by heartstrings
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45 minutes ago, John81 said:

Where do these verses say anything about angels cross-breeding with humans?

There were giants after the flood too.

 

Like I said, brother John, if you cannot understand the concept of what was going on that was so utterly evil and was so corrupt that God made it specifically clear in scripture that Noah was "perfect in his generations" in comparison to the "giants in the earth" and how they came to be with the verses given in Genesis 6: 1-9, and specifically verse 4... I can't help you more than I have already.  Someone else (possibly a pastor) could explain it better than I did. You could also (only if you feel so inclined) use an Hebrew lexicon for further word clarification, but only if you so desire to delve into it that deep.   If there was no contamination, why would the Lord have needed to expound that Noah was "perfect in his generations" since He had already expounded that Noah was "just" and Noah "walked with God". The Bible further gives the lineage of Noah all the way back to Adam (Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah,  and sorry if I mis-spelled any) so we already know his lineage was perfect. So why would the Lord need to make it abundantly clear that Noah was perfect in his generations? Right after the account of the "giants in the earth"? AND how those giants came to be? I wonder why you keep asking the same question over and over even though some of us have tried to explain it. SO... if you don't want to believe that there was no contamination of any kind going on, that's fine. BUT if you want to claim it is an erroneous conclusion, then please at least consult a pastor first and/or look at a Hebrew lexicon for further word clarification before you contend that there was no genetic contamination of any kind going on.

Otherwise... you can just believe that the giants were just plain ol' everyday "big/tall" people,and if you do... I'm fine with that. It makes no difference (to me) whether you comprehend what it's saying fully or not, because #1- it's not vital to your salvation and #2- they no longer exist.
 

48 minutes ago, John81 said:

Couldn't be since Shem's parents are known and Scripture says Melchizedek was without father, without mother, etc. (Hebrews 7)

Not exactly....

Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

That does not mean that Melchisedec was without a father and without a mother (physically) but that A PRIEST (and not just that specific priest) abideth as though he had no father or mother. 

Hebrews 5:5-6   5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Jesus had an earthly mother (a virgin who gave birth to Him) and a heavenly Father. Hebrews 7:3 is not stating that  Melchisedec did not have an earthly father or mother, but that he ABIDETH that way. However, I would not say  that Shem was Melchisedec.

 

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14 minutes ago, Ronda said:

 

Like I said, brother John, if you cannot understand the concept of what was going on that was so utterly evil and was so corrupt that God made it specifically clear in scripture that Noah was "perfect in his generations" in comparison to the "giants in the earth" and how they came to be with the verses given in Genesis 6: 1-9, and specifically verse 4... I can't help you more than I have already.  Someone else (possibly a pastor) could explain it better than I did. You could also (only if you feel so inclined) use an Hebrew lexicon for further word clarification, but only if you so desire to delve into it that deep.   If there was no contamination, why would the Lord have needed to expound that Noah was "perfect in his generations" since He had already expounded that Noah was "just" and Noah "walked with God". The Bible further gives the lineage of Noah all the way back to Adam (Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah,  and sorry if I mis-spelled any) so we already know his lineage was perfect. So why would the Lord need to make it abundantly clear that Noah was perfect in his generations? Right after the account of the "giants in the earth"? AND how those giants came to be? I wonder why you keep asking the same question over and over even though some of us have tried to explain it. SO... if you don't want to believe that there was no contamination of any kind going on, that's fine. BUT if you want to claim it is an erroneous conclusion, then please at least consult a pastor first and/or look at a Hebrew lexicon for further word clarification before you contend that there was no genetic contamination of any kind going on.

Otherwise... you can just believe that the giants were just plain ol' everyday "big/tall" people,and if you do... I'm fine with that. It makes no difference (to me) whether you comprehend what it's saying fully or not, because #1- it's not vital to your salvation and #2- they no longer exist.
 

Not exactly....

Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

That does not mean that Melchisedec was without a father and without a mother (physically) but that A PRIEST (and not just that specific priest) abideth as though he had no father or mother. 

Hebrews 5:5-6   5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Jesus had an earthly mother (a virgin who gave birth to Him) and a heavenly Father. Hebrews 7:3 is not stating that  Melchisedec did not have an earthly father or mother, but that he ABIDETH that way. However, I would not say  that Shem was Melchisedec.

 

Rhonda,

The passages of Scripture you bring up are intriguing and there is certainly something to them being as oddly out of the norm as they are. They should not be dismissed or explained away but I think your theories on their meanings are mildly food for thought (very mildly) and not much more. There is just not enough evidence to form a doctrine with any authority on it.

Remember when the Rapture does occur the Lord has said that the our world will be just as it was in the days of Noah (corrupt, depraved and apostate) so thinking that some form of human/devil hybrid caused God's Wrath then is far fetched.

 

 

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I believe most of the early so called Church Fathers believed that the "sons of God" in Genesis 6 were fallen angels. The teaching that they were born again Christians backsliding and marrying unsaved women is a newer teaching and really, when you think about it, quite ridiculous. Unless, of course, you go to "the originals" and change the word "giants" to "mighty men" or "men of renown" or "mighty hunters" even though it's clear from the rest of the bible that giants are really, really tall men.

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Genesis 6 is the continuation of Genesis 5. The "sons of God" in Genesis 6 are the named individuals of Genesis 5 who were also the first in the lineage of Christ. They are called "the sons of God" because they were believers.  Each one of them lived for hundreds of years and saw their families grow into huge populations during their lifetimes making them economically and militarily powerful. Likewise, via the practice of "marrying and giving in marriage" they had become politically powerful as well. These factors made them "mighty men", and worldly like the giants. They were NOT the giants, neither were they the descendants of the giants, nor did they produce the giants. They simply were contemporaries.   At least two (2) of the "sons of God", Lamech and Methuselah, were ALIVE while Noah was building the ark. But these two guys, even though they were believers and direct ancestors of Christ, are NOT mentioned as "walking with God" or as "perfect in their generations" because they were worldly, disobedient backsliders at the time. One of these two, Methuselah, died the very same year the flood came, It is believed that God waited in longsuffering, until Methuselah had died, before bringing the flood. The fact that he was the oldest man who ever lived, would be a testament to that longsuffering.

Edited by heartstrings
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The term for the hybrid beings found in the O.T. is nephilim.  The translators had no clear understanding of this term, but were influenced by the Koine Greek translation of the word as "gigantes", from which they derived the English word "giants".  Now, they easily could have been "giants", but it seems that they were much, much more than that.  The "roots" of "gigantes" imply "earth-bound" (as opposed to "heavenly beings" like angels, for example).  Gigantes also implies "fallen" (as in "those that cause others to fall down") implying that they were violent and controlling of lesser beings. At any rate, they were the cause of the Flood, which destroyed all except for Noah and his three sons (and the 4 wives).  We know from scripture that angels could both eat and drink, and that they were the objects of sexual desire on the part of the Sodomites, when they visited Lot.

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1 hour ago, beameup said:

The term for the hybrid beings found in the O.T. is nephilim.  The translators had no clear understanding of this term, but were influenced by the Koine Greek translation of the word as "gigantes", from which they derived the English word "giants".  Now, they easily could have been "giants", but it seems that they were much, much more than that.  The "roots" of "gigantes" imply "earth-bound" (as opposed to "heavenly beings" like angels, for example).  Gigantes also implies "fallen" (as in "those that cause others to fall down") implying that they were violent and controlling of lesser beings. At any rate, they were the cause of the Flood, which destroyed all except for Noah and his three sons (and the 4 wives).  We know from scripture that angels could both eat and drink, and that they were the objects of sexual desire on the part of the Sodomites, when they visited Lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wadlow

Modern era Giant without the use of Angels.

 

Edited by MountainChristian
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