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What makes a Church IFB?

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mattbennett
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Hi all, I am not trying to start any disagreement, but this is something that I have struggled with for a while. What really make a church IFB? It seems that there are a lot of churches that take very different posisitions on a lot of issues and still consider themselves IFB. Your thoughts are appreciated. 

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28 minutes ago, Golgotha said:

There was a Baptist Forum that had some members claiming to be of the fundamental Baptist and yet they were Pentecostals/Charismatics in practices.  Some members defended tongues without interpretation as if the Holy Spirit can use it as a prayer language.  The way they set up their forum was like this forum where only Baptist members were allowed to post in a certain part of the forum.  I was wondering if I was back in that forum when it had an extreme makeover after kicking them out or something, but this was not that fourm.

But I will refrain from mentioning that Baptist forum.  I would not want to be seen as advertising it which I care not to, but I remember now which forum that was.

BTW  Here is an article about the danger that may be coming into fundamental Baptist churches.

http://www.fundamentalbaptistministries.com/Archives/BAPTIST CHURCHES ADOPTING CHARISMATIC PRACTICES.htm

But all you have to do is be alert & notice when the hymns or sermons or the call to worship or prayer is by focusing on the Holy Spirit;  then may the Lord help you to speak up & raise others up with you to confirm the Word to them.

I have not heard of any moment of the "Spirit" occurring when the Trinity is the focus in the worship place either by hymn or prayer, but the call to avoid such seducing spirits is to focus on the Son in worship ( Luke 13:24-30 & John 14:6 ), because a brother in India testified how they honored the Holy Spirit one Sunday worship service & he experienced liquid nitrogen seeping into his skull as he began to confess against his will an apology to the Holy Spirit for not believing that He would do these dramatic manifestations any more.

That's all it takes, because they can invoke the supernatural again by calling on the Holy Spirit to come & fall on them.  Regardless of the confusion & the falling down, they prayed to the Holy Spirit, they honored the Holy Spirit, they worshipped the Holy Spirit and these things happened!  Telling them that this was not the Holy Spirit will go in one ear & out the other because it was the Holy Spirit they were honoring & praying for to come & fall on them.

Why?  Because God permitted them to suffer a strong delusion to believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit "again" as they did not do the Father's will of only honoring the Son in worship in order to honor & glorify God the Father by.

I can imagine that the movement of the "Spirit" can happen even when honoring the Trinity in worship or song, since it is still the Father's will to honor only the Son in order to honor the Father, and it may have had happened & I had not come across it yet, but all I ask is watch out for the hymnals in the Baptist churches because some of them do focus on the Holy Spirit in worship & even sing for the Holy Spirit to come & fall on them.  All it takes is a little leaven to leaven a whole lump, thus misleading even Baptists by those hymns into being open to the idea of receiving the Holy Spirit "again" and the devil is like roaming lion seeking whom he may devour. 

In any event, if the admin or mods want me to share that link to that supposed fundamentalist baptist forum just to prove that what I am saying is true, I can PM it if you want.  You guys decide if you want to alert Baptists to avoid that forum or not.  I don't think it is considered an independent fundamentalist Baptist forum, but they do throw that word Baptists & fundamentalists around as identifying themselves as such.  You can see it in one of the headings of the sub forums ( Fundamental Baptist Forum ) where only Baptists are allowed to post in.

I could only post in Christians only part of the forums.  It got old fast.  It seemed ridiculous when there were Baptists that act like they were more Pentecostals & Charismatics than the way you guys are.  I consider you guys real Baptists then, but I am on alert as you can see why I am still discerning still if you guys are abiding in Him or not.

I keep getting John 12:40 as if the Lord was trying to tell me something about this forum, but other than you guys not seeing why God is going to judge His House at the pre trib rapture event, as long as you guys are abiding in Him, I don't see any iniquity yet.  You guys could be like the loyal son in the field, wondering why everybody was celebrating the return of the prodigal son, but the Father said something significant that the loyal son had but the prodigal son did not.  The father said to the loyal son that all that he has was his, and so it is not the same for the prodigal son because he did give up his first inheritance for wild living & he cannot get it back, but he is still son.

I hope that is all that it is where you guys will be surprise to see those that profess Him but yet got left behind are still His, but as it is, I cannot think higher than I ought to think of myself, because I need Jesus Christ all the time as my Good Shepherd to help me to follow Him.  And so... He is helping me to rest in Him to minister as it is all Him.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Fascinating stuff here sir.

But I must still contend on the mental acknowledgement thing. What you consider wayward Christians, most here consider lost and I will tell you why. A conviction-less acknowledgement of Christ saving work and a repeat after me prayer has never saved anyone. Only a supernatural conviction in the heart after hearing the Gospel saves, without it all the rabbit's foot prayers in the world will do nothing. They can say with their heads all day long: Lord, Lord but if they don't truly fear God and truly mean it in their hearts there is no conversion, only religion.

You are also incorrect in interpretation of the context of James 2. The context is about true heart faith that will always produce works. the Devils reference is a warning against what you are saying my friend. Believing without receiving is a false gospel and not that of the Bible. 

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16 hours ago, wretched said:

Fascinating stuff here sir.

But I must still contend on the mental acknowledgement thing. What you consider wayward Christians, most here consider lost and I will tell you why. A conviction-less acknowledgement of Christ saving work and a repeat after me prayer has never saved anyone.

A lot of verses will disagree with you.

Romans 11: 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Only a supernatural conviction in the heart after hearing the Gospel saves, without it all the rabbit's foot prayers in the world will do nothing. They can say with their heads all day long: Lord, Lord but if they don't truly fear God and truly mean it in their hearts there is no conversion, only religion.

The verse 13 below would testify against any will of the flesh or the will of men turning from all sin.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is after a believer has been saved is when they have power to live as sons of God by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help them lay aside every weight & sin in running that race. Otherwise, what will you have then when a IFB member sins & condemns himself because he must not be really convicted to turn away from all sins & thus be saved?  How many IFB gives up and walks away from Jesus & stop going to church because they feel like a fraud if they take your requirement to be saved seriously?  Or for that matter, how many IFB members have been condemned by the church as not being serious or not being really convicted when they struggle against a habitual sin and thus they are deemed as you would deem them to be;  unsaved?

Remember the brother that was a fornicator in 1 Corinthians 5th chapter?  Where is that conviction if he was doing that after he was saved?  Did Paul declare him or any one that sins as not really  a believer?  No.  He did not.  He told us to excommunicate any unrepentant brother, but they are still called brothers.  Even in 2 Thessalonians 3rd chapter where wicked & unreasonable men have not faith and no longer follow after the traditions taught of us and are quite disorderly but yet we are not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers by withdrawing from them. 

Think about the children if you take what you say as a requirement when so many believers would not believe that children are incapable to understand the necessity of a heart felt conviction in order to respond to believing in the gospel when so many think that unBiblical man made teaching about that age of accountability would suggest that children cannot have that heartfelt conviction?  And yet Jesus would call the little children to come to Him.

Mark 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Indeed, even babes can come to Him just by the Father revealing His Son to them so they can believe in Him.

Matthew 11: 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

What can a child or even a babe do except trust the Lord at His word?  How can any one surrender & come to Him to rest in Him if a heartfelt conviction to turn from all sin is required?

Running that race which is what discipleship is, by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd is separate from salvation by faith in Jesus Christ as our Saviour, and even then, we need Him to do that even by faith in the Son of God & all His promises to us.

You are also incorrect in interpretation of the context of James 2. The context is about true heart faith that will always produce works. the Devils reference is a warning against what you are saying my friend. Believing without receiving is a false gospel and not that of the Bible. 

Believing Him is receiving Him.  

It is when saved believers abide in Him & His words is when they are His disciples bearing fruit by looking to Him as the author & finisher of our faith in running that race by helping us in laying aside every weight & sin to be received by Him as vessels unto honor in His House at the pre trib rapture to attend the Marriage Supper.

And not every saved believer is looking to Him to trust Him to do that as their Good Shepherd in running that race.

In James 2nd chapter from the beginning, James was addressing the church's abuse of the poor, then James was talking about the other abuse of the church's in verbalizing faith in His Providence to get out of helping the poor after church service and yet not leading by example to the poor. 

Only the Lord can help you read that chapter that James was talking about the abuse of verbalizing faith in His Providence when not leading by example.  James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ in having been saved.  

Both James & Paul shared fellowship & neither one preached any other gospel.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Galatians 2:9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

As proof that because they are saying the same thing & therefore you are reading James 2nd chapter wrong, here are Paul's words.

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Now how can Paul say that & still have the right hand of fellowship with James & preach no other gospel?

Discern with His help to what James is talking about in that second chapter, because it is about the abuse of verbalizing faith in His Providence in getting out of helping the poor thus leading without being an example thus the church's faith will not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor when in the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in His Providence is dead.  

James even gave a reference to Abraham and that event was about applying faith in His Providence if you check with the Old Testament's account because even Abraham named that place by the lesson learned there for all to know.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Now see the account below to what kind of faith that Abraham was justified by for believing God that James was talking about.

Genesis 22:And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together......13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

The name of the place testifies to Abraham's faith in God's Providence & that ties in to what James was talking about when the church was using that faith in saying it to the poor to get out of helping the poor after church's service when they had collected a bounty from the Lord during the service to meet their immediate needs.

That was the faith of Abraham's that James was talking about;  that was what Abraham believed in God per that event of the offering up of Isaac that He would provide & He did.

So the church was not justified, as in they were not in the right for verbalizing faith in God's Providence when they are not leading by example to the poor. 

James & Paul are on the same page.  You are just reciting a common misreading by the majority of believers.

Faith in Jesus Christ for salvation requires no work;  verbalizing faith in His Providence to others requires us to lead by example otherwise, no one can see that faith.

 

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4 hours ago, Golgotha said:

 

I recommend you search this site for "easy believism" and similar threads. I will not repeat all the proof demonstrated in these threads again. This subject has been discussed at nauseam on here.

Matter of fact, you may want to take allot of time to study several subjects you have been addressing on here before you keep posting. You may have second thoughts about a post or thread at that point and see the subject discussed and proven in most cases.

Take some time to do that you will be reproved friend if you have an open heart to learn God's Word and do not think you have reached "all knowledge" already :)

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24 minutes ago, wretched said:

I recommend you search this site for "easy believism" and similar threads. I will not repeat all the proof demonstrated in these threads again. This subject has been discussed at nauseam on here.

Matter of fact, you may want to take allot of time to study several subjects you have been addressing on here before you keep posting. You may have second thoughts about a post or thread at that point and see the subject discussed and proven in most cases.

Take some time to do that you will be reproved friend if you have an open heart to learn God's Word and do not think you have reached "all knowledge" already :)

If you do not want to address the scripture provided in purple in my reply to you that proves your misapplication of scripture by sending me off on a search instead, then am I to expect that in an IFB church as well?

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Tell me what's the difference is by telling someone that is a sinner that is asking you a specific question;  how can I be saved? and your reply is... go read the Bible... go over the Baptist Online forum... I am too tired to repeat myself;

Sorry for that sarcasm, but I am offended by your reply.  I do not know why you even replied if you are not going to edify.

Tell me how you were saved & do not share any knowledge that happened after you were saved.  Too many believers that treat easy believism with contempt include lessons of repentance learned after they were saved.  Try to remember before you were saved & what you only heard to believe in Him, because this also refutes you.

Romans 10: 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 

How is that NOT easy believism?  Do you see the requirement of a heartfelt conviction to turn from all sin? I don't.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Again, discipleship is not about gaining salvation;  discipleship is for saved believers to run that race by faith in Jesus Christ in living a life of repentance by laying aside every weight & sin to be received as a vessel unto honor.

The laying aside every weight & sin was not done at salvation.  How can it be by grace if it was?  That comes afterwards when Christ Jesus is in them so they can run that race by faith in Jesus Christ by the grace of God.

Sinners walk away from that kind of an altar call to turn from all sin because sin has dominion over them.  That is why the simplicity of the gospel is easy believism so that even little children can come to Him & then they have power to live as sons of God thanks to Jesus Christ in them.

Why not share how you would present the gospel that would direct sinners to look at themselves in their sincerity to turn from all sin since you are not going to find that presentation of the gospel any where in the N.T. Bible.

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54 minutes ago, Golgotha said:

If you do not want to address the scripture provided in purple in my reply to you that proves your misapplication of scripture by sending me off on a search instead, then am I to expect that in an IFB church as well?

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Tell me what's the difference is by telling someone that is a sinner that is asking you a specific question;  how can I be saved? and your reply is... go read the Bible... go over the Baptist Online forum... I am too tired to repeat myself;

Sorry for that sarcasm, but I am offended by your reply.  I do not know why you even replied if you are not going to edify.

Tell me how you were saved & do not share any knowledge that happened after you were saved.  Too many believers that treat easy believism with contempt include lessons of repentance learned after they were saved.  Try to remember before you were saved & what you only heard to believe in Him, because this also refutes you.

Romans 10: 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 

How is that NOT easy believism?  Do you see the requirement of a heartfelt conviction to turn from all sin? I don't.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Again, discipleship is not about gaining salvation;  discipleship is for saved believers to run that race by faith in Jesus Christ in living a life of repentance by laying aside every weight & sin to be received as a vessel unto honor.

The laying aside every weight & sin was not done at salvation.  How can it be by grace if it was?  That comes afterwards when Christ Jesus is in them so they can run that race by faith in Jesus Christ by the grace of God.

Sinners walk away from that kind of an altar call to turn from all sin because sin has dominion over them.  That is why the simplicity of the gospel is easy believism so that even little children can come to Him & then they have power to live as sons of God thanks to Jesus Christ in them.

Why not share how you would present the gospel that would direct sinners to look at themselves in their sincerity to turn from all sin since you are not going to find that presentation of the gospel any where in the N.T. Bible.

Try to search the forum friend, I have not mentioned one time a turning from sin. The preached Word and the Spirit work together to regenerate the lost, the Spirit's job to reprove the world of sin, righteousness and judgment to come. There must be heartfelt conviction or there is no new birth. When a person truly believes with their heart they will receive the Savior and will become a new creature, old things are pasted away and all things become new. IOW: they will be interested in growth and the things of God at a baby's level and they will believe the Scriptures as they learn them and they will be concerned for the lost (starting with their own families). IF NOT, it was not real belief in their hearts. I challenge you to demonstrate one example of the new birth in the NT which resulted in the person calling on the Lord to save them and then they forget all about it and go along their sinful way. Reread the passages you post and ask God for understanding because you clearly do not have it yet. I would love to help but just don't have the time to stay on here of late.

Since you are new, you will find most on here will not keep reproving new people on the same subject over and over unless they have the earnest desire to learn. A couple of years ago I would take the time to reprove you but time is short these days and like I keep mentioning others like you have come and gone and I among many others took the time and demonstrated their incorrect stands (all of which is captured on this site and accessible with the search feature). If you want to find answers search this forum, there are tons of them. These topics have come up and down a hundred times with some threads 10 pages or more.

Now if you want to simply be the big shot who is never wrong then be my guest. You will find little agreement or fellowship on here with that attitude though. I am sensing you have this delusion of being God's man with all the answers come to set everyone straight but I got news for you friend, this is no ministry, this is a discussion forum. I doubt if any two people on here agree on every subject

There are a number of members on here who are born again soldier hard and have lived for the Lord several decades none of which are dummies so open your heart a little, you might learn some things differently than you have been taught.

 

 

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1 minute ago, wretched said:

Try to search the forum friend, I have not mentioned one time a turning from sin. The preached Word and the Spirit work together to regenerate the lost, the Spirit's job to reprove the world of sin, righteousness and judgment to come. There must be heartfelt conviction or there is no new birth.

Look at the sin that the Holy Spirit will reprove the world of as sinners.

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

So the only heartfelt conviction is to believe on Jesus Christ, even in His name  = easy believism.

Discipleship comes afterward.

9 minutes ago, wretched said:

I challenge you to demonstrate one example of the new birth in the NT which resulted in the person calling on the Lord to save them and then they forget all about it and go along their sinful way.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

So a saved believer can find himself in a worse sinful state than from before when overcome by sowing to the works of the flesh.  Would this not apply to the prodigal son that spent his first inheritance for wild living?  He will suffer loss as a vessel unto dishonor, but he is still in His House because he is still son.

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35 minutes ago, Golgotha said:

Look at the sin that the Holy Spirit will reprove the world of as sinners.

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

So the only heartfelt conviction is to believe on Jesus Christ, even in His name  = easy believism.

Discipleship comes afterward.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

So a saved believer can find himself in a worse sinful state than from before when overcome by sowing to the works of the flesh.  Would this not apply to the prodigal son that spent his first inheritance for wild living?  He will suffer loss as a vessel unto dishonor, but he is still in His House because he is still son.

H9w does any of your posts answer the original question of this tgread?

It seems like you are randomly posting your own thoughts anywhere you can.........

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12 hours ago, DaveW said:

H9w does any of your posts answer the original question of this tgread?

It seems like you are randomly posting your own thoughts anywhere you can.........

Although the OP has been answered, I don't think any one can really speak for any IFB church.

Questioning what makes up an IFB by showing if an IFB church is really Biblical in being fundamental.

The notion of answering to no outside authority does make one wonder if they mean "except Christ of course".

As it is by precedent, an IFB can be Pentecostal/Charismatic in practice & no other IFB can do anything about it. Indeed, can an IFB that claim to be Biblical fundamentalist hold to that claim when worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son?  By His words, I would say not.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

So in truth, the only iron sharpening iron will have to happen here in an IFB forum since no one can really vouch for any IFB church in my local area unless they, themselves, have been there.

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

A forum is the only place to speak up in wherein a scheduled & timed sermon or Sunday School lesson does not really leave any lee way for those having necessary question for growth in sub topics or off topics.

So my first response in this thread was by questioning the definition of an IFB church by addressing a major iniquity in all denomenations that seemingly are unaware of as even Fundamentalist Baptists denomenations that answer to an outside authority do as well.  So far, as far as my understanding of what an IFB church is, each IFB church may be as well.  

All it takes is a hymnal to introduce that iniquity, and then pretty soon, they have that mentality that they can receive the Holy Spirit "again" after a sign, especially when something strange happens when focusing on the Holy Spirit in honoring Him in worship.

So let every IFB member & forum members discern with His help in what & how every one is speaking to see if we are speaking the same thing & holding to the same judgment, since after all, it is not our church we are representing in seeking the glory of, but the Lord Jesus Christ in seeking His glory & no other as that is what His disciples do.

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Golgotha, I recognize you are wanting to sound a warning here-I agree with it, too. While I may not know of any 'charismatic' IFB churches, that there may be some who call themselves such doesn't surprise me. With many churches introducing toned-down versions of CCM, and sometimes not even toned-down, and are beginning to be open to more contemporary writers, it won't be long before they become fully contemporary churches-it has happened before, and it will happen again.

We DO need to be very careful of where our churches go, always remain vigilant against any little thing getting in and setting a precedent. Personally I have lost members over such little things-one recently even said our church is 'joyless' because of strict stances against some music and bible versions. People have left over the tongues issue, which we are against, and other such things. And believe me, and some here can verify it, we are small enough we feel each and every loss keenly, but I have come to the conclusion that I would rather have a small faithful group in unity in Christ and the doctrine, than a large church with all kinds of stuff going on.

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